Oh those nuts at ACORN

[Elvado]

Good to see those merry pranksters at ACORN putting their federal funding to good use by counseling prostitutes how to set up front businesses and obtain mortgage financing for brothels.

Toss in suggesting that the underage prostitutes be claimed as dependents and you've got the triple crown of community action.

The idea that this outfit gets federal funding and is involved in the census is beyond ridiculous.

Left or right. Liberal or conservative. These clowns have got to go.

[Boz]

My views on ACORN are well documented on this board.

Nothing they do surprises me.

While I am sure there are some very good and well-intentioned people who do operate under their umbrella, as an organization, they are corrupt, thuggish and irresponsible.

And that's about as polite as I can be with respect to this group.

[EasyEd]

Census bureau severs ties with ACORN. At least this is a start. Hope I'm allowed to link to a Fox News site:

www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/11/census-bureau-severs-ties-acorn/

[Elvado]

Sept 11, 2009 18:32:33 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

Census bureau severs ties with ACORN. At least this is a start. Hope I'm allowed to link to a Fox News site:

www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/11/census-bureau-severs-ties-acorn/

Kudos to the Administration for a first step. Do they have the stones to sever all ties? Doubtful, but at least the average American won't be giving personal information to the unwashed ACORN masses as part of the census.

[strummer8526]

Yeah I've only seen a few minutes of the video, but this looks like the final of many straws.

[Boz]

Good for the Senate for voting to cut off all funding to ACORN, by an overwhelming margin, 83 to 7. The House will look pretty stupid (then again, what else is new?) if they don't follow suit.

Speaking of looking stupid, it's a good thing Charles Gibson is retiring. He admitted this morning on a radio show that he didn't know anything about the story (even though Jake Tapper has been blogging about it on the ABC News Web site). That's the type of crack news anchor I want to be telling me what's going on in the world!


(As for me, I am not in the business of TVBPs, but I can't help but feel a little bit vindicated after being harangued during the election season for calling out ACORN on their corrupt practices.)

[Elvado]

Be careful Boz. Those who criticize ACORN or any of Supreme Leader's other noble cronies are even-money to be branded racist at the drop of a hat.

[jerseyhoya34]

Sept 15, 2009 14:37:54 GMT -5 Elvado said:

Be careful Boz. Those who criticize ACORN or any of Supreme Leader's other noble cronies are even-money to be branded racist at the drop of a hat.

Unfortunately, some of the President's critics have earned the characterization. A prominent member of the Tea Party's leadership referred to President Obama as an "Indonesian Muslim turned welfare thug..." I suspect most don't consider this an intellectual contribution of any merit. He went on Anderson Cooper's show and stood behind the characterization.

I think all of us stand behind his right to do so but, at the same time, are grateful that cooler heads prevailed this weekend when they counted each person at the African-American Celebration on the Mall as attendees of the 9/10 Rally as 1 person as opposed to 3/5.

[jerseyhoya34]

tinyurl.com/m2t49w

This piece, albeit choppy in narrative, calls into question the idea that ACORN arises from some plot of Obama and his cronies. The factual points merit attention.

[Boz]

This piece, albeit smarmy hackery throughout, does indeed have some factual points, I grant you that. It's also several months out of date. Does this same author want to come out and stand up for ACORN today, I wonder?

Hell, an ACORN representative just came out and said that they're using their money (taxpayer money, need I remind you) and influence to take up the President's cause for health care reform, not the cause for which everyone who would defend them says they do well, which is affordable housing.

There is no defending this organization. They are corrupt and it's rampant. This author might like to make her snarky little jokes about Michelle Bachmann and mention that ACORN was also funded while Bush was President, but that doesn't change the fact that many of us have been protesting that funding no matter who the President is. It was wrong for them to get our money then and it's damn sure wrong of them to get it now.

Is there anyone who really still honestly believes the "oh, it's just a few workers here and there" defense?

[jerseyhoya34]

I don't quite know who the political fight is against, which is perhaps part of the reason for the noise. There is nobody on the planet defending Mickey Mouse-qua-Mickey Mouse's right to vote. In any event, even counsel for the Republican plaintiff in the most significant ACORN litigation noted that ACORN workers were not promoting illegal voting. What you had is an illegal voter registration effort that was not healthy or helpful in any way nonetheless. The Obama campaign severed ties at some point during the primaries, as happens between campaigns and different organizations for a variety of reasons.*

This, in addition with some of the author's points, help to dispel the notion that (i) there is some sort of Obama conspiracy here and (ii) there has been consistent opposition to ACORN on the right, which also helps as to (i). The Republican argument (your approach notwithstanding), until recently, was very much on point (i) and had very little to do with anything else.

It is another arrow for the players of the association game to shoot out there, along with Jeremiah Wright, Professor Ayers, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and the like. Sometimes I wonder whether they think Obama delivers cupcakes to Gitmo prisoners or something.

*On this point, I think you could probably dig up several examples akin to ACORN in some form or another.

[EasyEd]

Boz, the Senate only cut off housing funding to ACORN, not all funding.

[EasyEd]

Sept 15, 2009 17:03:35 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

tinyurl.com/m2t49w

This piece, albeit choppy in narrative, calls into question the idea that ACORN arises from some plot of Obama and his cronies. The factual points merit attention.

Two questions: (1) how much money does ACORN stand to get from the Stimulus Bill? If not $8 Billion, is it $7 Billion, $1, or what? (2) Is it true that Barach Obama legally represented ACORN in earlier years?

[jerseyhoya34]

Here is FactCheck's work on (1): www.factcheck.org/2009/02/the-stimulus-bill-and-acorn/

As to (2), it is true, but that does not mean anything, much less that he endorses fraud. The representation was in connection with a motor voter action.

[theexorcist]

Sept 15, 2009 18:19:57 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

I don't quite know who the political fight is against, which is perhaps part of the reason for the noise. There is nobody on the planet defending Mickey Mouse-qua-Mickey Mouse's right to vote. In any event, even counsel for the Republican plaintiff in the most significant ACORN litigation noted that ACORN workers were not promoting illegal voting. What you had is an illegal voter registration effort that was not healthy or helpful in any way nonetheless. The Obama campaign severed ties at some point during the primaries, as happens between campaigns and different organizations for a variety of reasons.*

This, in addition with some of the author's points, help to dispel the notion that (i) there is some sort of Obama conspiracy here and (ii) there has been consistent opposition to ACORN on the right, which also helps as to (i). The Republican argument (your approach notwithstanding), until recently, was very much on point (i) and had very little to do with anything else.

It is another arrow for the players of the association game to shoot out there, along with Jeremiah Wright, Professor Ayers, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and the like. Sometimes I wonder whether they think Obama delivers cupcakes to Gitmo prisoners or something.

*On this point, I think you could probably dig up several examples akin to ACORN in some form or another.

Godwin's law! My side wins!

And if you want to keep on thinking that the Republicans have lots of vote-finding organizations that advised a guy who posed as a pimp how to get a house for his brothel ... wow, then imagination really *is* alive and well in the younger generation!

[jerseyhoya34]

Sept 15, 2009 20:10:27 GMT -5 theexorcist said:

And if you want to keep on thinking that the Republicans have lots of vote-finding organizations that advised a guy who posed as a pimp how to get a house for his brothel ... wow, then imagination really *is* alive and well in the younger generation!

I did not say that they have organizations exactly like ACORN, although it is likely that ACORN has registered Republicans. How one distinguishes ACORN from, say, Sproul and Associates as to the original problem of voter registration is tough. Bonner & Associates is another group that comes to mind. Young Political Majors is another. The actions are different, but the underlying issue is more or less the same as with ACORN, not excusing any of it, mind you.

The idea that Bonner is less reprehensible because they aren't doing a how-to on brothels is a little much. Then, it can be said that ACORN is not sending forged letters to Congress, so they are less reprehensible. The actions are equally deplorable.

[Boz]

For my part, Jersey, I am not making a political argument, at least not in the sense that you or this author may think. It's political in the sense that I have no respect for any politician or political body who sees fit to continue to fund this organization. I am aware that there are Republicans out there who are trying to use this to bring down Obama. I am not one of them (I am not a Republican at all, for that matter).

I think most regular board members are aware of my personal and vehement animus toward this organization. That animus is not party-based.

I was actually very happy that the Senate vote was so overwhelmingly one sided. It actually gave me faith for a brief time.

Having said that though, I can think of seven Senators who should be ashamed of themselves, and I'll probably have many House members on my s--- list fairly soon.

[jerseyhoya34]

Sept 15, 2009 21:38:27 GMT -5 Boz said:

For my part, Jersey, I am not making a political argument, at least not in the sense that you or this author may think. It's political in the sense that I have no respect for any politician or political body who sees fit to continue to fund this organization. I am aware that there are Republicans out there who are trying to use this to bring down Obama. I am not one of them (I am not a Republican at all, for that matter).

I think most regular board members are aware of my personal and vehement animus toward this organization. That animus is not party-based.

I was actually very happy that the Senate vote was so overwhelmingly one sided. It actually gave me faith for a brief time.

Having said that though, I can think of seven Senators who should be ashamed of themselves, and I'll probably have many House members on my s--- list fairly soon.

I should be clear that I find your position on ACORN valuable and careful. I give it weight but also view it as the minority position among ACORN critics.

My comments in this thread were in reaction to Elvado's remarks. I like neither ACORN nor the Republican front groups that have similarly engaged in fraud, so we agree there. I disagree with some of the factual assertions made against ACORN in terms of the weight we should give them, but I find the ACORNers to be chuckleheads all the same.

[quickplay]

This article is about a 3 minute read and I think does an incredible job at explaining the view of people who don't understand the intense focus on Acorn outrage in light of other abuses going on.

It isn't as simple as tit for tat in showing how each other's "sides" all do bad things, but how the anger of the right wing is very often directed at everyone EXCEPT those who have a substantial influence over large policy and monetary issues.

This isn't an argument to claim that they have no right to complain, obviously they do. But what is it that directs the anger at things like healthcare reform and Acorn instead of (insert one: corruption in war profiteering, revolving door between government and business, government contract abuses, corporate tax shelters...)?

Attempts to discuss this quickly move into controversial explanations (e.g. racism topic on this board), but I'd be interested in hearing the views of some people on this board on this idea and those put forth in the article linked.

www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/09/17/acorn_hysteria/

[theexorcist]

Sept 17, 2009 11:37:24 GMT -5 quickplay said:

This article is about a 3 minute read and I think does an incredible job at explaining the view of people who don't understand the intense focus on Acorn outrage in light of other abuses going on.

It isn't as simple as tit for tat in showing how each other's "sides" all do bad things, but how the anger of the right wing is very often directed at everyone EXCEPT those who have a substantial influence over large policy and monetary issues.

This isn't an argument to claim that they have no right to complain, obviously they do. But what is it that directs the anger at things like healthcare reform and Acorn instead of (insert one: corruption in war profiteering, revolving door between government and business, government contract abuses, corporate tax shelters...)?

Attempts to discuss this quickly move into controversial explanations (e.g. racism topic on this board), but I'd be interested in hearing the views of some people on this board on this idea and those put forth in the article linked.

www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/09/17/acorn_hysteria/

People are angry at healthcare reform and bailouts (see town halls and tea party protesters). But...

Seven Democrats voted against shutting down ACORN. No Republicans. Just Democrats.

Salon's article states: "To a non-profit group that devotes itself to providing minute benefits to people who live under America's poverty line, and which is so powerless in Washington that virtually the entire U.S. Senate just voted to cut off its funding at the first sign of real controversy -- could anyone imagine that happening to a key player in the banking or defense industry?"

The best part of watching the Daily Show was Jon Stewart's comment that surely discussing underaged prostitution of noncitizens (who are rife for abuse, illegal or not), and ACORN didn't even flinch!

That's what gets me. Democrats - and not one nut, but seven, continue to defend the organization, and Salon says that they're just trying to help people find houses.

THEY'RE ABETTING PROPOSED UNDERAGED PROSTITUTION AND POSSIBLE SEX SLAVERY AND YOU DON'T BAT AN EYEBALL? WTF?