RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Jul 28, 2009 14:12:42 GMT -5
Balla does not care who joins Hoyaballa, or who post. They will just immediately delete/ban anyone that post any of the BS that they normally post on this board. Heck, a lot of people that Balla does not agree with are already members of Hoyaballa. That is not a problem. There are a lot of "fans" on this site that seem to enjoy the misery a lot more then the winning--and their posts speak loudly to support that. rdf, you are an intelligent person, but do you truly not see the hypocrisy? balla & gang presumes to have the right to determine what is BS and what is not??? so BS IS saying anything non-positive about "the program" but BS IS NOT personally attacking an individual player (or a child)? SO TELL ME, rewind the tape 5 years, would calling for eshericks head have been considered BS or not? seems on the one hand that it would qualify as "questioning the direction of the program" and so would be BS, but on the other hand, it was the "accepted point of view" and so would not be considered BS. that kind of thing is called a CLUB, not a forum. balla is first and foremost an arrogant control freak, hiding behind the veil of "caring about the program." that forum is only to stroke his ego as he tries to control whats deemed conventional wisdom and acceptable discourse. why would anyone join a CLUB that serves only to stroke balla's deletedHow is it a "club" when anyone is free to join? You just have to follow some rules-and the type of crap that was being posted/allowed to be put up in recruiting forums was starting to get brought up by RECRUITS--and if that happens--something needs to change. It's another Hoya site--and FREE. So what's big deal? If you don't like him/his "control" then don't go over there. If you like the info and can follow his rules--which seem pretty straight to point and simple--then join. I respect his info and the work the other guys over there have put in--and still post here too--this site is great place to talk Hoya Hoops--and admittedly I've not been on much this Summer but when I did stop by--it was like the program was at Esherick level of disfunction. Your point about me/Esherick has merit--but I often was told to tone it down or face punishment or the posts were edited. I still appreciated the forum to voice this--and did my best to follow the rules--but when others stepped in--I understood despite disgreeing with how I believed the program should change. Just think some of this is way too personal. Anytime there is more coverage of my favorite team, and you know the info is going to be excellent, why complain?
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Jul 28, 2009 14:20:23 GMT -5
a couple of quick points from a pseudo-outsider:
1. Calling for Esh's head, should have been encouraged. I don't care what label you want to apply to such a practice, be it "BS" or "questioning the direction of the program."
2. Yes, there has been a lot of negativity during this off-season (and really during the season). But negativity, in and of itself, is not necessarily a bad thing. Sure, we need to remember these are 18-20 year old kids who are students first and basketball players second. So there are certain types of comments that are inappropriate even if they might otherwise be justified. But I agree with the train of thought that "control police" label isn't reserved for the so-called rebels like balla. The mods are, in and of themselves, often deserving of such a label as well. I understand the need for a degree of control and the need to avoid fanning the flames of a minor grease fire to avoid burning down the building, but I also think that under such a guise, what amounts to censorship has taken place as well. Whoever called balla a hypocrit for his views is doing THE EXACT SAME THING, only in reverse.
3. Lastly, Pope, you do the exact same thing when you call balla an "arrogant control freak" hiding under a veil of "caring about the program." Do you not see what amounts to your conundrum in this particular case?
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PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 28, 2009 14:31:01 GMT -5
nazi party was free to join too.
im not complaining about the existence of his board. im just pointing out his hypocrisy and how he & gang are damaging georgetown's image.
a discussion board is where there is free discussion. yes, there are limits here, but those limits only pertain to when things get abusive. generally, there is wide freedom of expression.
on balla's board, there are limits on what opinions an be expressed. AND HERES THE CATCH, they are set arbitrarily by (im assuming) BALLA! thats a CLUB according to my definition. you just joined a club. and balla is President! nothing wrong with that. just dont deny it.
i really would have applauded his efforts if: 1. he prohibited anything negative-which includes the program, students, players 2. he prohibited personal attacks against posters (i frankly was tired of the bullying of posters by board members who disagreed)
but, instead he: 1. threatens to delete things HE considers BS 2. encourages bashing of players (see slap on freeman in the fricking welcome page) 3. personally attacks posters
RDF, you seem to genuinely care about the program and the school. therefore, i encourage you to set aside any frustration you have regarding this board and re-read his "welcome" message. think about it. if you were an outsider, would you really want georgetown and hoya basketball represented by such an immature and vindicative a**hole? i mean, referring to a kid as a tranny???
i mean balla shows that he is either highly immature, borderline childish. or a really mean-spirited vindicative person. and this is who you choose to support? basketball aside, thats not the kind of guy i take you for. we may have disagreed here, but at the end you always were decent.
balla may be good at recruiting info. but thats all he should be allowed to do, leave the board mod-ing to adults. he has ZERO class and therefore discredits the very program he claims to be protecting. makes georgetown look like a bunch of ingnorant intolerant thugs. hes an embarrassing low-life.
just my $0.02.
and btw guru, yeah i called bernie madoff a fraud back in 1997. i was ahead of the curve that time too. such a little piker.
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PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 28, 2009 14:33:52 GMT -5
3. Lastly, Pope, you do the exact same thing when you call balla an "arrogant control freak" hiding under a veil of "caring about the program." Do you not see what amounts to your conundrum in this particular case? no please enlighten me. if i believe that people should be able to say what they want (within limits established by the mods) then how am i trying to control things?
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Bando
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
I've got some regrets!
Posts: 2,431
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Post by Bando on Jul 28, 2009 14:38:22 GMT -5
a couple of quick points from a pseudo-outsider: 1. Calling for Esh's head, should have been encouraged. I don't care what label you want to apply to such a practice, be it "BS" or "questioning the direction of the program." 2. Yes, there has been a lot of negativity during this off-season (and really during the season). But negativity, in and of itself, is not necessarily a bad thing. Sure, we need to remember these are 18-20 year old kids who are students first and basketball players second. So there are certain types of comments that are inappropriate even if they might otherwise be justified. But I agree with the train of thought that "control police" label isn't reserved for the so-called rebels like balla. The mods are, in and of themselves, often deserving of such a label as well. I understand the need for a degree of control and the need to avoid fanning the flames of a minor grease fire to avoid burning down the building, but I also think that under such a guise, what amounts to censorship has taken place as well. Whoever called balla a hypocrit for his views is doing THE EXACT SAME THING, only in reverse. 3. Lastly, Pope, you do the exact same thing when you call balla an "arrogant control freak" hiding under a veil of "caring about the program." Do you not see what amounts to your conundrum in this particular case? How does any of this excuse badmouthing posters here on HoyaBaller (in one case particularly nastily), or stealing content from HoyaTalk?
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PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 28, 2009 14:39:48 GMT -5
read this board this offseason? The problem is people have gone way overboard on the negativity, not only making this board miserable to read, but also reflecting badly on the program itself. Something had to be done about some of the crazys on this board, and you can disagree about who did it or how it was done, but you have to admit something needed to be done. yes i have read the board. yes the 2 posts about "reality check" and "uneasy feeling" were way out there in my opinion and i think they discredited themselves and nobody would taken them seriously. i would have no problem if the mods decided to ban anything which would be damaging to the program. but for balla to assume the holier-than-thou mantle, while at the same time condoning bashing of players and slandering individuals, is a farce. thats my only point. if the balla's board banned all negative things i would applaud him. but as it stands now, balla's board damages the program too. but he thinks personal attacks IS NOT BS so i guess what he says goes.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Jul 28, 2009 14:45:52 GMT -5
can someone please repost the link to this now infamous "welcome?" For some reason, I can't find it again.
Pope, I will look back and make sure I didn't get you mixed up with someone else.
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PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 28, 2009 14:50:37 GMT -5
Edited. Do not post content from other sources.--Admin
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CAHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,598
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Post by CAHoya07 on Jul 28, 2009 14:59:20 GMT -5
This thread has deteriorated pretty quickly. I can't believe that some people are taking this far too seriously (and personally). It's an internet message board, people. Who. Really. Cares.
GO HOYAS!
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Jul 28, 2009 15:14:59 GMT -5
Pope wrote:
balla & gang presumes to have the right to determine what is BS and what is not??? so BS IS saying anything non-positive about "the program" but BS IS NOT personally attacking an individual player (or a child)?
SO TELL ME, rewind the tape 5 years, would calling for eshericks head have been considered BS or not? seems on the one hand that it would qualify as "questioning the direction of the program" and so would be BS, but on the other hand, it was the "accepted point of view" and so would not be considered BS.
that kind of thing is called a CLUB, not a forum.
balla is first and foremost an arrogant control freak, hiding behind the veil of "caring about the program." that forum is only to stroke his ego as he tries to control whats deemed conventional wisdom and acceptable discourse.
I see that a different way. Criticisms -- when done in the proper manner -- of individuals, can be constructive. It can obviously be destructive as well. So Hoyatalk errs on the side of caution by prohibiting such discourse. I understand that view. Balla takes the other path, understanding that sometimes the boat needs to be rocked a bit and sometimes a few feathers need to be ruffled. I see that point as well. If you arbitrarily decide that any such discussion on this or that topic is off limits, then I don't see how you are fundamentally different from one who says that inappropriate comments on a particular subject are not allowed. Blanketly banning a subject might seem fairer than banning certain types of comments, but I don't think that more censorship is necessarily a better path under the guise of being "fairer." You seem to suggest that banning select things amounts to a controlling freak, but banning more doesn't. I just don't see it that way.
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Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
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Post by Boz on Jul 28, 2009 15:22:17 GMT -5
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
I'd like to halt things at this point to ask what I consider to be a pertinent question.
When did hifi's status get upgraded to "pseudo-outsider??"
Ba-ZING!!!
;D ;D ;D
jk
Let him have his board. I'm with CA. Who the bleep cares?
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,603
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Post by hoyatables on Jul 28, 2009 15:30:26 GMT -5
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'd like to halt things at this point to ask what I consider to be a pertinent question. When did hifi's status get upgraded to "pseudo-outsider??" Ba-ZING!!! ;D ;D ;D jk Let him have his board. I'm with CA. Who the bleep cares? I was just thinking the same thing. HiFi is not a pseudo-outsider. Though dammit, after the junk we've had to read over the past few months from so many "long time fans" I almost prefer reading HiFi to those guys.
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PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 28, 2009 15:31:37 GMT -5
im confused. i think you may have misunderstood.
im fine with the level of censorship on hoyatalk. im fine with the rules balla set up. i express no opinion about what limits should and should not be set. thats up to the mods. this is not a debate about censorship.
i am only saying balla should drop the "holier than thou" mantra about protecting the program and just say he wants a forum that runs the way he wants it to run depending on which side of the bed he wakes up on that particular day.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Jul 28, 2009 15:59:49 GMT -5
Pope wrote:
im fine with the level of censorship on hoyatalk. im fine with the rules balla set up. i express no opinion about what limits should and should not be set. thats up to the mods. this is not a debate about censorship.
i am only saying balla should drop the "holier than thou" mantra about protecting the program and just say he wants a forum that runs the way he wants it to run depending on which side of the bed he wakes up on that particular day.
OK, that's a bit better. I thought you were critical of the way the board was set up AND how the censoring was going to be handled. I understand the concerns that some censoring could be falling in an effectively subjective area but I don't think that to be inferior to one where the entire subject would be banned objectively to begin with. I thought that was the position you were taking.
Boz, I love you too, buddy.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
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Post by FLHoya on Jul 28, 2009 16:07:30 GMT -5
It all cools down and sorts itself out in the end. For me, this is a nice little bookend to the period between the end of the basketball season and the beginning of the Kenner League. If you wanted to give a Cliffs Notes version...it would appear the HoyaBalla message board has sprung up as a reaction to perceived negativity, as defined by the creators of the new board, in recent discussions on Hoyatalk. Put another way, for HoyaBalla's creator(s), Hoyatalk had gone too far in hosting overtly and/or over-the-top negative descriptions of the state of the basketball program. Okay, now flashback a few months. What caused that push of folks towards the CasualHoya website? If you wanted to give a CliffsNotes version...it would appear the CasualHoya movement gained steam as a reaction to perceived censorship of certain discussion topics on Hoyatalk per the interpretation of HT's ground rules. Put another way, for CasualHoya's devotees, Hoyatalk had gone too far in not permitting open discussion of certain developments in the state of the basketball program that at the time relied primarily on unverified sources. Soooooo...few months apart, two new websites, one calling for a more positive tone, the other, while not calling for a "negative tone," at least offering a more restriction-free setting for discussion. What does it tell us? Well, in the end you can't make anyone totally happy. Probably also, that Hoyatalk is still the Mothership of the whole operation, and it's not a bad thing to have satellites, or in this case several niche boards. HoyaReport is a great example of a niche board--it focuses on basketball recruiting and prospects and offers the reporting talents of Carlos and Ron, who both were long-time posters on the many editions of Hoyatalk and still stop by periodically today. New website hasn't stopped CasualHoya from posting here. I begin and end my day here, but any additional opportunity to gain more information or different viewpoints is valid valuable--and this goes for the other non-message board sites like Hoya Prospectus. In the end, the quality of information provided will determine if I keep coming back, as I am sure is true for many of you. Just saying though...HoyaReport's board had the Stepka news two days earlier.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,610
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Post by DanMcQ on Jul 28, 2009 16:19:29 GMT -5
FLHoya's post puts a reasonable cap on this discussion.
Suffice it to say that there are multiple venues on which Hoya fans can post and participate. That is not a bad thing. This place will continue to run the way it always has.
As easyed would say, Kenner League 2009 starts in 2 days. We'd rather discuss basketball than discuss discussing about basketball here.
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