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Post by youngjeezy on Jul 27, 2009 15:47:47 GMT -5
the irony here being that this thread most likely actually worked to BOOST their web traffic?
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Jul 27, 2009 20:49:25 GMT -5
HMMM THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BAD PUBLICITY HMMMMM
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Jul 27, 2009 20:49:53 GMT -5
thats iryonic so to speak kinda
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jul 27, 2009 20:59:30 GMT -5
Does anyone else suspect this is an elaborate v.2 of "Has Hoyatalk Jumped The Shark?"
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,762
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Post by blueandgray on Jul 27, 2009 21:02:19 GMT -5
I actually like the idea of another site where there is some semblance of a controlled environment and the bickering and criticism is curtailed. I am as guilty as anyone... lord knows how many times I have bashed the one dimensional human turnover on this site. That being the case, what must potential recruits think when they log on and they see posters infighting, hear about tension among players, see players being criticized, see the questioning III and the system, etc, etc.. While I know we all mean well and love our Hoyas for better or for worse... it just looks ugly from an outsiders perspective.
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xpathoya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 175
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Post by xpathoya on Jul 27, 2009 21:22:48 GMT -5
While I agree that calling out posters by name is childish and petty, I can partially understand where balla is coming from. From what I have observed over quite a while (mainly as a lurker), the level of access this man has to high school prospects both GTown/non-GTown is unmatched (at least here online, on HoyaTalk). From what I can gather it also seems like he gets considerable face time with some of these kids and knows them on a much better basis than any of us could ever hope to. Now if I was in his position and one of those kids explicitly mentioned HoyaTalk as a reason to be concerned about our fanbase or the state of our program I would be terrified. And while 10 years ago it may have been inconceivable to some that a "serious" bluechip recruit would have any spare time/no social life and would be computer literate enough to find an internet message board, it's 2009 and just a week ago we were talking about Greg and DaJuan on Twitter. And while I might sound a bit paranoid, I think it's getting to the point where even message boards postings are fair game and could possibly become a factor as a negative recruiting tool or a liability when it comes to containing on-campus scandals, negative PR etc. In that respect certain aspects of HoyaTalk make us especially vulnerable when you compare us to other message boards out there. I may be hugely biased but for me, the HoyaTalk community as a whole comes off as actively involved, vocal, intelligent, insightful, witty, analytical and deeply reflective on a very consistent basis which is much more than you can say for other fan bases with an online presence... On the other hand, there are times when the general atmosphere on this board is so overcome by malaise and neurosis thick enough to slice with a knife and I can genuinely see how a kid could be turned off or worried if they saw the board in semi-meltdown mode like it is right now. And if I was balla I might have gone and done the same exact thing (minus the needless personal invective) out of indignation that the actions of a few posters were actually starting to hurt our brand image. With that said, I'm pretty sure message board drama is probably one of the last factors on a typical recruit's mind when it comes to making a decision. However, I think everyone can agree it's certainly not going to help us and depending on how saavy an opposing coach/fan or even the guy's handler is at spinning this into negative PR fodder for our program, it could be devestating. We've joked about it in the past but if we lose even a single recruit from this, the damage has been done. What's the solution then? I don't know for sure but I'll just throw some suggestions out: -I don't even know if this is possible on Proboards, but can the mods set a threshold, required number of posts that a user needs to meet or exceed before they are allowed to start their own threads? Set it to something reasonable like 50-100 or so, so that the rest of the posters might get a better chance to feel out a poster before they get thread starting privleges (incidentally , I wouldn't even qualify but I could live with it if it meant cutting down on the garbage that is flooding the front page). -Consolidate all posts criticizing the "Princeton" into a single thread (or banish it to a separate, less visible board). It seems like some posters are working on this agenda to either get JT3 to completely scrap the "system"... or "ELSE" (of course no one in their right mind would even question his job security at this point - but the insinuation is there). All these posters do is recycle the same tired old arguments and provide us with little if anything in the way of viable options or solutions. I realize that some of the criticism is constructive and called for, but I don't think we need 3 or 4 separate threads on the front page at one time. On the other hand, one LONG running thread criticizing the system may actually draw more attention and look worse because it will always be hanging over our heads - so I think this idea is debatable. -More Draconian board moderation for discussion on the above subject. I'm all for locking down certain threads if the discussion is non-productive and consists of nothing more than bickering - i.e. going nowhere. There are posters I respect who have spoken eloquently against the "system" and I'm not calling for them to get muzzled. I think we should be more selective when it comes to posters with questionable motives like hoyasaxa23 - I'm sorry but no Georgetown fan in their right mind would say the following: Look back on the famous moments in GU history, and we'll see that Jordan, Villanova and our iconic influence over black America have as much to do with our history as anything that GU athletes ever did on the court. ... and clueless posters like bowhoya, who may have good intentions but think they're being challenging and thought provoking by dredging up the same old issue again and again and not adding any new insight. In fact I would actually not mind if mods like DanMcQ got even MORE trigger happy with these threads (although this would give them alot more work to do). I also know this goes against some of the principles of this forum as well as public discourse here in the "Free World", but this could be a watershed year for the JT3 era as well as the program itself. It's not like we, the players, JT3, or the staff need anything else going against us right now.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,762
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Post by blueandgray on Jul 27, 2009 21:39:50 GMT -5
While I agree that calling out posters by name is childish and petty, I can partially understand where balla is coming from. From what I have observed over quite a while (mainly as a lurker), the level of access this man has to high school prospects both GTown/non-GTown is unmatched (at least here online, on HoyaTalk). From what I can gather it also seems like he gets considerable face time with some of these kids and knows them on a much better basis than any of us could ever hope to. Now if I was in his position and one of those kids explicitly mentioned HoyaTalk as a reason to be concerned about our fanbase or the state of our program I would be terrified. And while 10 years ago it may have been inconceivable to some that a "serious" bluechip recruit would have any spare time/no social life and would be computer literate enough to find an internet message board, it's 2009 and just a week ago we were talking about Greg and DaJuan on Twitter. And while I might sound a bit paranoid, I think it's getting to the point where even message boards postings are fair game and could possibly become a factor as a negative recruiting tool or a liability when it comes to containing on-campus scandals, negative PR etc. In that respect certain aspects of HoyaTalk make us especially vulnerable when you compare us to other message boards out there. I may be hugely biased but for me, the HoyaTalk community as a whole comes off as actively involved, vocal, intelligent, insightful, witty, analytical and deeply reflective on a very consistent basis which is much more than you can say for other fan bases with an online presence... On the other hand, there are times when the general atmosphere on this board is so overcome by malaise and neurosis thick enough to slice with a knife and I can genuinely see how a kid could be turned off or worried if they saw the board in semi-meltdown mode like it is right now. And if I was balla I might have gone and done the same exact thing (minus the needless personal invective) out of indignation that the actions of a few posters were actually starting to hurt our brand image. With that said, I'm pretty sure message board drama is probably one of the last factors on a typical recruit's mind when it comes to making a decision. However, I think everyone can agree it's certainly not going to help us and depending on how saavy an opposing coach/fan or even the guy's handler is at spinning this into negative PR fodder for our program, it could be devestating. We've joked about it in the past but if we lose even a single recruit from this, the damage has been done. What's the solution then? I don't know for sure but I'll just throw some suggestions out: -I don't even know if this is possible on Proboards, but can the mods set a threshold, required number of posts that a user needs to meet or exceed before they are allowed to start their own threads? Set it to something reasonable like 50-100 or so, so that the rest of the posters might get a better chance to feel out a poster before they get thread starting privleges (incidentally , I wouldn't even qualify but I could live with it if it meant cutting down on the garbage that is flooding the front page). -Consolidate all posts criticizing the "Princeton" into a single thread (or banish it to a separate, less visible board). It seems like some posters are working on this agenda to either get JT3 to completely scrap the "system"... or "ELSE" (of course no one in their right mind would even question his job security at this point - but the insinuation is there). All these posters do is recycle the same tired old arguments and provide us with little if anything in the way of viable options or solutions. I realize that some of the criticism is constructive and called for, but I don't think we need 3 or 4 separate threads on the front page at one time. On the other hand, one LONG running thread criticizing the system may actually draw more attention and look worse because it will always be hanging over our heads - so I think this idea is debatable. -More Draconian board moderation for discussion on the above subject. I'm all for locking down certain threads if the discussion is non-productive and consists of nothing more than bickering - i.e. going nowhere. There are posters I respect who have spoken eloquently against the "system" and I'm not calling for them to get muzzled. I think we should be more selective when it comes to posters with questionable motives like hoyasaxa23 - I'm sorry but no Georgetown fan in their right mind would say the following: Look back on the famous moments in GU history, and we'll see that Jordan, Villanova and our iconic influence over black America have as much to do with our history as anything that GU athletes ever did on the court. ... and clueless posters like bowhoya, who may have good intentions but think they're being challenging and thought provoking by dredging up the same old issue again and again and not adding any new insight. In fact I would actually not mind if mods like DanMcQ got even MORE trigger happy with these threads (although this would give them alot more work to do). I also know this goes against some of the principles of this forum as well as public discourse here in the "Free World", but this could be a watershed year for the JT3 era as well as the program itself. It's not like we, the players, JT3, or the staff need anything else going against us right now. as jim rome would say.."rack him!!"
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JimmyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Hoya fan, est. 1986
Posts: 1,867
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Post by JimmyHoya on Jul 27, 2009 21:53:38 GMT -5
this is awesome
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PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 27, 2009 22:22:41 GMT -5
Now if I was in his position and one of those kids explicitly mentioned HoyaTalk as a reason to be concerned about our fanbase or the state of our program I would be terrified. And while 10 years ago it may have been inconceivable to some that a "serious" bluechip recruit would have any spare time/no social life and would be computer literate enough to find an internet message board, it's 2009 and just a week ago we were talking about Greg and DaJuan on Twitter. And while I might sound a bit paranoid, I think it's getting to the point where even message boards postings are fair game and could possibly become a factor as a negative recruiting tool or a liability when it comes to containing on-campus scandals, negative PR etc. In that respect certain aspects of HoyaTalk make us especially vulnerable when you compare us to other message boards out there. I may be hugely biased but for me, the HoyaTalk community as a whole comes off as actively involved, vocal, intelligent, insightful, witty, analytical and deeply reflective on a very consistent basis which is much more than you can say for other fan bases with an online presence... On the other hand, there are times when the general atmosphere on this board is so overcome by malaise and neurosis thick enough to slice with a knife and I can genuinely see how a kid could be turned off or worried if they saw the board in semi-meltdown mode like it is right now. And if I was balla I might have gone and done the same exact thing (minus the needless personal invective) out of indignation that the actions of a few posters were actually starting to hurt our brand image. the problem with this argument is the double standard. the guys on the new board have been among the worst offenders of blasting individual players and potential recruits. note their trashing of summers, rivers, macklin, and others over the years. anyone who leaves the program is denigrated. anyone who doesnt play up to THEIR expectations is bashed. anyone who is rumored to choose another school is deemed to be stupid and unable to make smart decisions. i seem to remember a recent REAL story about a recruit that actually decomitted from another school because he didnt like the personal trash on the chat board. yet when i brought this up and raise the fact that our players read this board and the trash the posters are saying hurts the programs and probably does not contribute to building a sense of loyalty towards the school, im laughed at. im told that these players "better get used to it." however, any remark about "the program" is verboten because it damages recruiting??? assuming balla's story is true, what if said recruit had said that he did not like the trashing of summers and rivers and macklin that he saw on the board and wondered if it was indicative of the fanbase. would he be starting a new board prohibiting trashing of players? who he be calling out freemans weight on the frickin new members ad? this is all about ego and control. they hide behind the cause of "looking out for the program", when all they want is control. any opinions which are not approved, get deleted. dont be fooled by the lie that they really care about the program. if they did then they would not bash players, past, present or possibly future. starting with freeman. fricking narcissists hypocrites bullies. cannot believe these guys went to georgetown.
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xpathoya
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 175
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Post by xpathoya on Jul 27, 2009 22:42:49 GMT -5
the problem with this argument is the double standard. the guys on the new board have been among the worst offenders of blasting individual players and potential recruits. note their trashing of summers, rivers, macklin, and others over the years. anyone who leaves the program is denigrated. anyone who doesnt play up to THEIR expectations is bashed. anyone who is rumored to choose another school is deemed to be stupid and unable to make smart decisions. I haven't followed balla or any of the "defectors" closely enough to see if what you say is true. You do bring up a good point however that it's not just threads that blindly trash the system that hurt recruiting, but vindictive threads that trash individual players as well. However, once again, I can't say whether or not balla et al are guilty of that. Is ALL criticism verbotten? I'm not saying that. Individual posts within established threads shouldn't be touched. I'm just talking about the rampant thread starting making it look like more than half the discussion on the front page of HoyaTalk is doom and gloom. this is all about ego and control. they hide behind the cause of "looking out for the program", when all they want is control. any opinions which are not approved, get deleted. dont be fooled by the lie that they really care about the program. if they did then they would not bash players, past, present or possibly future. starting with freeman. fricking narcissists hypocrites bullies. cannot believe these guys went to georgetown. I don't know if I'm reading you correctly, but it seems like you've got me lumped together with balla and co. I wasn't siding with balla but I was only saying how I can partially understand his frustration and why he would go to the lengths that he did to do this (but I do not understand the whole sh*t list on his thread welcoming people from HoyaTalk - it takes away from the strength of his argument and makes me not want to support him)
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Post by hoyafever on Jul 27, 2009 22:43:02 GMT -5
It's like watching the Seinfeld where George tells Susan's parents that he has a house in the Hamptons for the first time. You don't know what is going to happen, not sure what all is going to be said, but you know something is gonna go down.
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PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 27, 2009 22:56:37 GMT -5
I don't know if I'm reading you correctly, but it seems like you've got me lumped together with balla and co. I wasn't siding with balla but I was only saying how I can partially understand his frustration and why he would go to the lengths that he did to do this (but I do not understand the whole sh*t list on his thread welcoming people from HoyaTalk - it takes away from the strength of his argument and makes me not want to support him) nope not lumping you in at all. frankly have no idea what you posting history has been. just trying to clarify the message. if balla & gang were genuinely "high and mighty and holier than thou" they wouldnt allow trashing of players. you need only read the "summers going pro thread" to see what im talking about. i admire that they are staunch defenders of the program, but dont be fooled, their TRUE defining quality is that they are just belligerent--angry old or ignorant young men. their belligerence and intolerance is directed towards others whom they dont agree with and players and recruits whom they are disappointed in. so lets just call a spade a spade. they need to get off their high-horse as you need go no further than their bashing of freeman down the page to see the hypocrisy. p.s. as for the "rampant" threads, i think you are referring to the 2 a few weeks ago. i mean those were just so out there i dont think any recruit/reader would take it seriously. its funny that thats what sent these "serious fans" over the edge. and thats coming from me who is proudly on their sh*t list. you got to wonder are they acting more out of concern or intolerance? ultimately, it dont amount to a hill of beans either way just an interesting thot. to add to the conspiracy theory, the saxa23 and bowhoya threads were soooo out there and came so close together, mebbe balla & co. planted those threads to spark the controversy??? if so, THAT would be genius!!!
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Post by strummer8526 on Jul 27, 2009 23:00:31 GMT -5
Balla shot who in the what now?
As a side note, has anyone noticed that balla's grammar is atrocious. Personally, I would have gone with the following "to do" list: (1) Learn to speak/write the English language; (2) Start a message board. But some people prefer the reverse order. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,296
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Post by royski on Jul 28, 2009 4:07:43 GMT -5
Seems pretty childish that we can't just keep all the quality posters under one roof, but their recruiting updates are among the best free ones available so I think it's worth signing up if you have interest in that stuff and limited funds.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 28, 2009 10:55:01 GMT -5
This will probably get me on Balla's list but, it seems to me, Balla offered this board two things: (1) outstanding reporting on recruits; and (2) extreme arrogance toward anyone who disagreed with him. Now he's taken his ball and gone home.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Jul 28, 2009 13:01:20 GMT -5
Balla does not care who joins Hoyaballa, or who post. They will just immediately delete/ban anyone that post any of the BS that they normally post on this board. Heck, a lot of people that Balla does not agree with are already members of Hoyaballa. That is not a problem.
There are a lot of "fans" on this site that seem to enjoy the misery a lot more then the winning--and their posts speak loudly to support that.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Jul 28, 2009 13:22:22 GMT -5
Anyone know where that thread is now. I stubled onto it before, but now I can't find it.
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PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
Posts: 1,465
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Jul 28, 2009 13:39:09 GMT -5
Balla does not care who joins Hoyaballa, or who post. They will just immediately delete/ban anyone that post any of the BS that they normally post on this board. Heck, a lot of people that Balla does not agree with are already members of Hoyaballa. That is not a problem. There are a lot of "fans" on this site that seem to enjoy the misery a lot more then the winning--and their posts speak loudly to support that. rdf, you are an intelligent person, but do you truly not see the hypocrisy? balla & gang presumes to have the right to determine what is BS and what is not??? so BS IS saying anything non-positive about "the program" but BS IS NOT personally attacking an individual player (or a child)? SO TELL ME, rewind the tape 5 years, would calling for eshericks head have been considered BS or not? seems on the one hand that it would qualify as "questioning the direction of the program" and so would be BS, but on the other hand, it was the "accepted point of view" and so would not be considered BS. that kind of thing is called a CLUB, not a forum. balla is first and foremost an arrogant control freak, hiding behind the veil of "caring about the program." that forum is only to stroke his ego as he tries to control whats deemed conventional wisdom and acceptable discourse. why would anyone join a CLUB that serves only to stroke balla's deleted
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Jul 28, 2009 14:02:26 GMT -5
Balla does not care who joins Hoyaballa, or who post. They will just immediately delete/ban anyone that post any of the BS that they normally post on this board. Heck, a lot of people that Balla does not agree with are already members of Hoyaballa. That is not a problem. There are a lot of "fans" on this site that seem to enjoy the misery a lot more then the winning--and their posts speak loudly to support that. rdf, you are an intelligent person, but do you truly not see the hypocrisy? balla & gang presumes to have the right to determine what is BS and what is not??? so BS IS saying anything non-positive about "the program" but BS IS NOT personally attacking an individual player (or a child)? SO TELL ME, rewind the tape 5 years, would calling for eshericks head have been considered BS or not? seems on the one hand that it would qualify as "questioning the direction of the program" and so would be BS, but on the other hand, it was the "accepted point of view" and so would not be considered BS. that kind of thing is called a CLUB, not a forum. balla is first and foremost an arrogant control freak, hiding behind the veil of "caring about the program." that forum is only to stroke his ego as he tries to control whats deemed conventional wisdom and acceptable discourse. why would anyone join a CLUB that serves only to stroke balla's deletedI am sorry have you read this board this offseason? The problem is people have gone way overboard on the negativity, not only making this board miserable to read, but also reflecting badly on the program itself. Something had to be done about some of the crazys on this board, and you can disagree about who did it or how it was done, but you have to admit something needed to be done.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Jul 28, 2009 14:04:27 GMT -5
sleepy, this is like talking to Bernie Madoff about the financial collapse
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