Bando
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Post by Bando on Apr 16, 2009 11:51:24 GMT -5
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you George F. Will! I expect op-eds decrying the scourge that is rock and roll "music" and that ragamuffin James Dean to follow in the coming weeks.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 16, 2009 12:03:03 GMT -5
Let me see if I have got the George Will worldview straight -
Global warming isn't happening and casual Friday is a cultural armageddon.
I can't wait for his column next week about those kids on his lawn.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Apr 16, 2009 12:11:31 GMT -5
Please don't forget that he also likes baseball.....
....a surer sign than any of the above that the man is an anachronism.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Apr 16, 2009 12:17:31 GMT -5
It is indisputably true that men and women (but particularly men) in America used to dress better in every sense of the word, more appropirately and more fashionably, than they tend to do now. It is also true that your average American man dresses like only a boy would have dared to do 40 years ago. End of the world? No. Lamentable? I think so. I tire of seeing grown men next to me at tables in expensive restaurants or at the theatre in shorts, baseball hats and tee shirts or women wearing flip flops to work in the summer and pretending they are "flats."
George Will writes a hundred columns a year....they are not all about the Big Issues, which is just how we like it. More importantly, he may be the best writer currently published weekly. He is a national treasure, despite his senior citizen status.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Apr 16, 2009 12:18:44 GMT -5
Please don't forget that he also likes baseball..... ....a surer sign than any of the above that the man is an anachronism. Did you ever see the SNL sketch " George F. Will's Sports Machine"?
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 16, 2009 12:24:16 GMT -5
I didn't like his attempt to disenfranchise Boz :
"Seventy-five percent of American "gamers" -- people who play video games -- are older than 18 and nevertheless are allowed to vote."
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 16, 2009 12:30:17 GMT -5
It is indisputably true that men and women (but particularly men) in America used to dress better in every sense of the word, more appropirately and more fashionably, than they tend to do now. It is also true that your average American man dresses like only a boy would have dared to do 40 years ago. End of the world? No. Lamentable? I think so. I tire of seeing grown men next to me at tables in expensive restaurants or at the theatre in shorts, baseball hats and tee shirts or women wearing flip flops to work in the summer and pretending they are "flats." George Will writes a hundred columns a year....they are not all about the Big Issues, which is just how we like it. More importantly, he may be the best writer currently published weekly. He is a national treasure, despite his senior citizen status. It is not a uniquely American phenomenon. I posit that the English have become this millenniums new "ugly Americans" and the Germans are not far behind.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Apr 16, 2009 12:44:28 GMT -5
It's not uniquely American anymore, but it is largely an American creation.
For $50, produce the effect of that symmetry...... one of the best 5 SNL skits of all time.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Apr 16, 2009 12:57:31 GMT -5
It is indisputably true that men and women (but particularly men) in America used to dress better in every sense of the word, more appropirately and more fashionably, than they tend to do now. It is also true that your average American man dresses like only a boy would have dared to do 40 years ago. End of the world? No. Lamentable? I think so. I tire of seeing grown men next to me at tables in expensive restaurants or at the theatre in shorts, baseball hats and tee shirts or women wearing flip flops to work in the summer and pretending they are "flats." George Will writes a hundred columns a year....they are not all about the Big Issues, which is just how we like it. More importantly, he may be the best writer currently published weekly. He is a national treasure, despite his senior citizen status. Really? What I got out of Will's column was that he was upset that he can't simply judge people by their appearance anymore. Jeans are for poor people, damnit!
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Apr 16, 2009 13:45:37 GMT -5
Ummm, I like wearing jeans... I'm sorry, Mr. Will.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Apr 16, 2009 13:59:26 GMT -5
Ummm, I like wearing jeans... I'm sorry, Mr. Will. You are missing the point if you think he is angry at recent college graduates for liking jeans. He is of course more saddened to see an age where succesful and educated adults don't know how and when to dress like adults at all- no matter the occasion. You are also I'm sure not quite appreciating how much levity a Will piece like this is meant to be greeted with....
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Apr 16, 2009 14:17:00 GMT -5
Ummm, I like wearing jeans... I'm sorry, Mr. Will. You are missing the point if you think he is angry at recent college graduates for liking jeans. He is of course more saddened to see an age where succesful and educated adults don't know how and when to dress like adults at all- no matter the occasion. You are also I'm sure not quite appreciating how much levity a Will piece like this is meant to be greeted with.... You are aware that for the most part fashion is completely subjective and therefore for you to say that jeans are not formal is equally as valid as me saying that a Tux is too casual. neither is objectively characteristic of any formal or informal time. Their application to certain settings or acceptance in certain setting is only a social convention and cannot be judged objectively by anyone. To lament the wearing of jeans is equal to lamenting the liking of the color blue. Neither displays a moral choice by the wearer (or liker) and therefor you are in no position to make a judgment beyond personal preference of anyone's attire. Why are jeans any less formal or acceptable than a suit is the same as asking why is a suit any less formal or acceptable than the attire of the social elite of the 1600. Attire only represent the popular attire of the time, again is has no objective quality.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 16, 2009 14:18:32 GMT -5
It's okay to wear jeans if you're going to a party of Washington insiders pretending to be Republican cowboys, but it's not okay for Steve Jobs to wear jeans as part of his somewhat stylish black mock turtleneck and jeans look. It's okay to like country music songs about drunks beating up hippies, but it's not okay to like video games or Indiana Jones or Watchmen. It's okay to like baseball because it reminds you of being a kid, it's infantile to like video games.
It's just recycled culture war crap.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Apr 16, 2009 14:25:05 GMT -5
You are missing the point if you think he is angry at recent college graduates for liking jeans. He is of course more saddened to see an age where succesful and educated adults don't know how and when to dress like adults at all- no matter the occasion. You are also I'm sure not quite appreciating how much levity a Will piece like this is meant to be greeted with.... You are aware that for the most part fashion is completely subjective and therefore for you to say that jeans are not formal is equally as valid as me saying that a Tux is too casual. neither is objectively characteristic of any formal or informal time. Their application to certain settings or acceptance in certain setting is only a social convention and cannot be judged objectively by anyone. To lament the wearing of jeans is equal to lamenting the liking of the color blue. Neither displays a moral choice by the wearer (or liker) and therefor you are in no position to make a judgment beyond personal preference of anyone's attire. Why are jeans any less formal or acceptable than a suit is the same as asking why is a suit any less formal or acceptable than the attire of the social elite of the 1600. Attire only represent the popular attire of the time, again is has no objective quality. This is pretty infantile isn't it? Is this what it's come to, everyone has a right to their own opinion? Well thanks for that stroke of genius. I thought that was a given on this board and we all just assumed we all got out of 5th grade with that firmly beat into out little brains. Of course it is a critique of a modern social convention. Of course a writer of opinion can make such a critique. Are you one of these people that thinks if you can quantify the supremacy of your preference scientifically that you don't have a right to the preference? Or should he just shut up about it?
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Apr 16, 2009 14:29:19 GMT -5
It's okay to wear jeans if you're going to a party of Washington insiders pretending pretending to be a Republican cowboys, but it's not okay for Steve Jobs to wear jeans as part of his somewhat stylish black mock turtleneck and jeans look. It's okay to like country music songs about drunks beating up hippies, but it's not okay to like video games or Indiana Jones or Watchmen. It's okay to like baseball because it reminds you of being a kid, it's infantile to like video games. It's just recycled culture war crap. Culture war huh? My god you guys need to get those panties out of a twist and realize that a man lamenting what slobs most American adult males dress like today isn't a personal attack on you all but a semi-serious subject for a rather funny piece. Now take off those sneakers, remove your baseball hats, untuck that corporate golf shirt you tucked into those semi-formal jeans, toss the braided belt in the garbage, and get back to work. In your very own panicked critique you've pointed out that the jeans wearing crowd is found equally on both sides of the aisle, hence you do a good enough job making your own "culture war" silliness look absurd. Clearly Will didn't approve of the jeans in GOP or Democratic events.
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 16, 2009 14:34:11 GMT -5
You are aware that for the most part fashion is completely subjective and therefore for you to say that jeans are not formal is equally as valid as me saying that a Tux is too casual. neither is objectively characteristic of any formal or informal time. Their application to certain settings or acceptance in certain setting is only a social convention and cannot be judged objectively by anyone. To lament the wearing of jeans is equal to lamenting the liking of the color blue. Neither displays a moral choice by the wearer (or liker) and therefor you are in no position to make a judgment beyond personal preference of anyone's attire. Why are jeans any less formal or acceptable than a suit is the same as asking why is a suit any less formal or acceptable than the attire of the social elite of the 1600. Attire only represent the popular attire of the time, again is has no objective quality. This is pretty infantile isn't it? Is this what it's come to, everyone has a right to their own opinion? Well thanks for that stroke of genius. I thought that was a given on this board and we all just assumed we all got out of 5th grade with that firmly beat into out little brains. Of course it is a critique of a modern social convention. Of course a writer of opinion can make such a critique. Are you one of these people that thinks if you can quantify the supremacy of your preference scientifically that you don't have a right to the preference? Or should he just shut up about it? I think your jeans might be too tight.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Apr 16, 2009 14:34:54 GMT -5
Or, in jgalt's case, take off that black cape with the silver dollar broach...
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Apr 16, 2009 14:44:14 GMT -5
All I know is that my own personal policy is that I never EVER go to a bar or club where jeans are not allowed.
I'm pretty sure without even walking in that I would not fit in at a place like that.
So, yeah, I'm prejudiced.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 16, 2009 14:49:40 GMT -5
It's okay to wear jeans if you're going to a party of Washington insiders pretending pretending to be a Republican cowboys, but it's not okay for Steve Jobs to wear jeans as part of his somewhat stylish black mock turtleneck and jeans look. It's okay to like country music songs about drunks beating up hippies, but it's not okay to like video games or Indiana Jones or Watchmen. It's okay to like baseball because it reminds you of being a kid, it's infantile to like video games. It's just recycled culture war crap. Culture war huh? My god you guys need to get those panties out of a twist and realize that a man lamenting what slobs most American adult males dress like today isn't a personal attack on you all but a semi-serious subject for a rather funny piece. Now take off those sneakers, remove your baseball hats, untuck that corporate golf shirt you tucked into those semi-formal jeans, toss the braided belt in the garbage, and get back to work. In your very own panicked critique you've pointed out that the jeans wearing crowd is found equally on both sides of the aisle, hence you do a good enough job making your own "culture war" silliness look absurd. Clearly Will didn't approve of the jeans in GOP or Democratic events. As much as I was giving you and Will guff, I agree with his sentiment. My firm is one of the few remaining that rocks business attire with very few exceptions. When we do go business casual, our definition of business casual is also different from most offices - it is either suit-no tie or blazer, slacks and tie. The strangest part is the firm's other offices in other cities have totally different rules. While it is somewhat of a pain to wear a suit in dead summer here in NYC, I take no small amount of perverse pleasure in shooting disdainful glances in the direction of lawyers from other firms in the elevator when they board looking like they are heading for a tee time rather than a day in the office. I think Larry David did a huge bit on this, but I guess I agree with him that if clients pay more than a certain amount of money for your time, you should be in a suit. On Edit -- In my private life though, I am rarely not in jeans or cords. There are occasional flirtations with khakis, but those are brief and likely because I've been told I have to "look nice" by my wife.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Apr 16, 2009 15:00:34 GMT -5
All I know is that my own personal policy is that I never EVER go to a bar or club where jeans are not allowed. I'm pretty sure without even walking in that I would not fit in at a place like that. So, yeah, I'm prejudiced. ] This is also my policy. Bipartisanship!
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