kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Mar 25, 2009 14:25:21 GMT -5
I know Summers is close friends with the former Georgetown manager that is now with the Bulls working for them. I am sure Summers will be able to lean on him to talk to the right people to get the right advice about making the jump to the league. yeah, cause JT2 and JT3 and others in the program have no connections to the NBA
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Mar 25, 2009 14:58:05 GMT -5
The way I feel on Summers is if he chooses to leave--what is lost? It's not if you can't replace a 6'8 245 guy who doesn't want to bang/rebound/defend, can't pass worth a lick, and is an out of control/sloppy ball handler. That is something you can replace. If he chooses to improve--and thinks NBA is best way to do so--good luck to him and thanks for his time at Georgetown. Just think what he's provided/shown is replaceable based on what he chose to NOT work on while being a player here. We lose our leading scorer and the one rising senior on this team. I know everyone has been frustrated by his play, but this is getting rediculous. DaJuan is not a scrub, nor is he a team cancer. This is not an addition by subtraction type situation. Without DaJuan this season, we aren't even NIT eligible this year. And who have you seen on this team that is ready tos tep up and take over the scoring load? The equally inconsistent Austin Freeman? Nikita? Our starting point guard? Do we want to turn Chris into a shoot first , pass later guy? No. Also, someone said most everyone was disenchanted with JTIII. More hyperbole. I think most people are disappointed with this season and think JTIII made a number of mistakes that may have contributed to some close losses. Answer me this? Would you take four years like the ones prior if it came with one year like this one? I would. One bad year in five and all of sudden people are not satisfied? Get over yourselves. It happens every now and again. Hopefully we can bounce back. That task becomes infinitely more difficult if we lose Greg or a guy like Summers. In a perfect scenario everyone returns to team, everyone works their butts off and Dajuan returns to SF-but actually works on SF skills. What most don't understand about Hoya offense--the "PF" spot is showcase spot--it's where your best offensive player/talent is going to play--due to matchup problems--he can pass/shoot/take you off bounce--well Summers had chance 2 years in a row to be "the guy" and he failed. PE JR had to take over midway through Big East season to improve the team--and move Dajuan back to SF spot--where he resorts to being a spot shooter, and then this year--he was just not good enough for the Hoyas in areas--ball handling/passing to make himself/team better. Monroe would be PF and Dajuan SF IF they return. With Summers skill set--you can replace that production--more shots to other players and playing time is open for competition. He's a very good player--but can be better--and chosen not to be. Doesn't matter what offensive system you run, if you can't handle or pass-you are a limited player and limit your team's effectiveness.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Mar 25, 2009 15:18:42 GMT -5
Your characterization of the situation seems a bit off. I don't believe Summers was auditioned at the four; he was there out of necessity. Summers came here as a three and that is where he's been projected at the enxt level. Many, including myself, have acknowledged that he's been playing out of position for the last two years. With his size, he could have played the position if he worked harder, but he's more of a shooter and a slasher than a post up or point forward guy. Furthermore, everyone has said that Monore is the more apt comparison to Jeff Green. Except Greg is playing center, not the Jeff Green role either. Last year we lost Jeff and Macklin couldn't start. This year, we lost Macklin and neither Sims nor Vaughn was ready to start. As such, Summers spent another year at the 4.
That is a tangent, but you still haven't explained who on this team or next year's team would replace Summers' numbers? Austin? Hollis? Nikita? Furthermore, I've got to believe that if Summers were moved back to the three next year, he'd be a more effective player, especially with Greg facilitating from his natural four spot. How can you so easily dimsiss the accomplishments of our leading scorer who single-handedly kept us in at elast a few games this year?
By your standards ... "if you can't handle or pass" who on this team is worth keeping beyond Chris and Greg? Austin can't really dirbble and has more boneheadeed turnovers than anyone. None of our other bigs can dribble, and Nikita and Omar are even worse.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 25, 2009 15:59:57 GMT -5
Agree with TMF, the Summers bashing is getting hard to understand. He is what he is, but let's not pretend DS is just a role player/interchangeable part. Yes, there were plenty of times this season when I wished he could have stepped up but he still was our best outside shooter and was one of a select few who demanded to be defended in every halfcourt set. Half the time opponents did not even need to guard Nikita, Julian or even Austin.
I feel like some are projecting their disappointment in Summer's potential vs reality and just dismissing him. He is a really good player, if not a complete player. Sure, he hates defense and rebounds like a 6 foot guard, but he still has his moments when he carried this team. You want to be embarassed? Take Summers out of the Duke game and we lose by 30. Take him out against Depaul and we end up scoring less than 40 points against the worst team in the BE and lose on our homecourt on senior day. That is how bad we can play without Summers.
I can deal with Summers schizo tendencies because I expect them. I will take that over the complete no show that we often see from Freeman at times. And if we lose Summers, we will be worse off next season, period. I agree with TMF, who is picking up those points? Summers is an offensive weapon, he often plays out of position of defense and he is lazy. But that does not mean this team is somehow even close to being as good without him.
When Summers is on, he simply carries this team on offense, there is no other player that has that quality yet.
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Post by strummer8526 on Mar 25, 2009 18:01:28 GMT -5
And Summers didn't miss a single dunk all year.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Mar 25, 2009 18:39:01 GMT -5
And Summers didn't miss a single dunk all year. I got to see fewer games this year, so I don't know for certain, but this is sarcasm, right? I could have sworn he missed at least one uncontested dunk.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 25, 2009 18:45:04 GMT -5
Two things:
1. "Out of necessity." When you say we started Dajuan at the 4 because Sims and Vaughn were "not ready to start." The problem is that statement is also saying Nikita WAS ready to start (despite being a worse shooter, rebounder, and defender than either Vaughn or Sims). If Dajuan truly started "out of necessity" it would mean that Nikita did as well as he was more ready than Vaughn or Sims. I find that difficult to believe.
2. It's not bashing Dajuan because he has his one thing. He likes to shoot and put the ball in the basket. That's good but not irreplaceable. Put it this way, we lost a similar player but with better rebounding and defending skills in Brandon Bowman and slid Dajuan in pretty easily. That swing man position is the easiest to replace in college basketball. It doesn't require a great handle or superb rebounding. It allows a talented player to focus on what he does best; look for his shot.
Who would move to that 3? Everyone you mention is a good candidate. Austin actually was successful there last year and could be again. It's Hollis' natural position and he is a solid recruit. And even Nikita could improve enough to play the 3. So yeah, we have options. It's not bashing Dajuan. He's just replaceable, not awful.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 25, 2009 20:00:09 GMT -5
Good post Giga, I agree. I'm a fan of Dajuan's, always have been, so I don't want this to sound like I'm bashing him. But if he goes, we'll be alright. He is truly a one trick pony at this point. He's a poor rebounder, at any position. He's a below average defender. If he tries to drive, it's more likely than not going to end up as a turnover or an offensive foul. Yes, it might be tough to replace his 3 point shooting prowess, as he is definitely an excellent shooter. BUT, we may find somebody who can get some of the defensive boards that are currently going to other teams for easy scores. Maybe his replacement could help us a little more on the offensive boards to help us get some easy points. Maybe his replacement wouldn't fall asleep on defense and give up 4 consecutive alley-oops for easy points out of timeouts (ok thats not really fair but I'm still a little frustrated about that).
Point is, we might not get somebody who is as good a shooter, but might get somebody who is a solid shooter and can provide some other things. Hollis is a possibility at the 3, maybe even an improved Nikita (don't laugh). Also you might see Austin stay at that 3 spot with Clark taking the 2. At the 4 spot that DaJuan played this year, we might see somebody like Latavious Williams (obviously a maybe), who can play the spot more like Pat Ewing played it with a lot of energy, attacking the basket and pulling down a lot of boards. And of course you might see Henry play it, and he'd be able to up the number of rebounds we're getting from that 4 spot and get some blocked shots and a significant defensive presence who can also pop out and hit the 3 every now and again.
Again, I'm a fan of DaJuan and I do hope he is back (though I'm not counting on it). But, if he does go, I think we'll compensate in some other different ways. As Giga said, the wing position is the easiest to fill in college. The big guys and the lead guards are the hardest.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 25, 2009 20:11:53 GMT -5
RB,
I agree with most of what you wrote. But again, I'll point out that those other options -- freshman or less talented players or playing small with Austin at the three -- simply don't have the upside DaJuan has.
Replacing Jr. DaJuan isn't impossible. But replacing Sr. DaJuan might be. There's upside to be found in other places, still, but DaJuan leaving reduces some team upside.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Mar 25, 2009 20:40:07 GMT -5
Let's also not forget that DaJuan had the best DR% on the team last year. It certainly seems like the exception compared to his Fr. and Jr. years, but I'm not going to accept that he's an awful rebounder, especially from the 3 spot.
Also, though he didn't improve his handle, his shooting percentage went up significantly between his So. and Jr. years -- he shot more twos while making a greater percentage, got to the line more, and shot less threes while still making more than last year. A lot of people like to subtly hint that DaJuan is lazy, but it's not like he wasn't working on anything.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 25, 2009 21:12:36 GMT -5
RB, I agree with most of what you wrote. But again, I'll point out that those other options -- freshman or less talented players or playing small with Austin at the three -- simply don't have the upside DaJuan has. Replacing Jr. DaJuan isn't impossible. But replacing Sr. DaJuan might be. There's upside to be found in other places, still, but DaJuan leaving reduces some team upside. Senior Dajuan at the 3? Awesome. Senior Dajuan at the 4? More bad boards and D and more "We'll figure it out..." quotes in the post. I have no doubt if Dajuan came back and played the 3, we'd be very good. I just haven't seen any budge on him at the 4. I'm more worried about Dajuan staying and us banging our head against the wall and putting him at 4. That has less upside than starting two bigs and trying to replace him in my mind.
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Post by hoyalawyer on Mar 25, 2009 22:20:59 GMT -5
Best Case Scenario C- Monroe/ Julian (30/10) PF- Williams/ Sims (30/10) SF- Summers/Nikita/Omar (30/5/5) SG- Austin/ Hollis (30/10) PG- Chris/ Jason (30/10)
Worst Case Scenario C- Julian/ Henry (25/15) PF- Henry/ Nikita (15/25) SF- Austin/ Omar (30/10) SG- Jason/ Hollis (25/15) PG- Chris/ Jason (35/5)
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Post by westendhoya on Mar 25, 2009 23:13:09 GMT -5
That worst case scenario will not get us to the NIT
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royski
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Post by royski on Mar 26, 2009 0:51:12 GMT -5
That worst case scenario will not get us to the NIT If III can't get us to the NIT with 2 Jr. McD All-Americans, he has some issues.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Mar 26, 2009 7:32:41 GMT -5
I'm as confused by DaJuan as much as the next person in terms of his lack of defense. I guess we can chalk that up to "laziness" at times but it seemed to me more like he's trying to play help defense too much as opposed to his specific defensive assignment because everyone else's defense is so bad so DS defaults to trying to block shots in the lane and picking up quick fouls.
In any case, I think DS deserves tremendous credit for having been stuck at the 4 when he clearly is and was meant to be a 3. For a kid with his sort of potential being stuck in a situation like that and not taking the Rivers/Macklin route I think is very admirable.
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dchoyafan
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Post by dchoyafan on Mar 26, 2009 11:12:00 GMT -5
I'm as confused by DaJuan as much as the next person in terms of his lack of defense. I guess we can chalk that up to "laziness" at times but it seemed to me more like he's trying to play help defense too much as opposed to his specific defensive assignment A LOT of the time the reason Dajuan's man is left wide open for that dagger 3 (which happens all the time) is because he habitually and often unnecessarily over-commits to help defense. On the ball D not quite as bad, but he just doesn't stick with his man well enough when he doesn't have the ball.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 26, 2009 11:44:35 GMT -5
Best Case Scenario C- Monroe/ Julian (30/10) PF- Williams/ Sims (30/10) SF- Summers/Nikita/Omar (30/5/5) SG- Austin/ Hollis (30/10) PG- Chris/ Jason (30/10) Worst Case Scenario C- Julian/ Henry (25/15) PF- Henry/ Nikita (15/25) SF- Austin/ Omar (30/10) SG- Jason/ Hollis (25/15) PG- Chris/ Jason (35/5) Best case senerio would involve Sims starting over Williams imo. Yea, I know everyone is obsessed with getting a rebounder and tough player like him, but if he did infact come, big if, I would consider him more of a defensive specialist, not a starter. This team needs as much expierence as it can get, and Sims being ready to start would be most benefitial to the team. Also, your worst case senerio for next year is far from worst case imo. You forgot to include any and all possible transfers we could have which could potentially lead to our roster being depleted, in major positions.
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joey0403p
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Post by joey0403p on Mar 26, 2009 12:13:01 GMT -5
can someone explain why if sims is ready to play that he would start at the 4 and not the 5? I'd rather start sims out of position at the 5, than monroe out of position at the 5.
Right? As was stated the 4 is the spotlight position in JTIIIs offense.
Also in my opinion (assuming summers and greg both come back) I think our season more appropriately hinges on sims. If he can start and play 25 - 30 solid mins at the 5. I think we are second weekend in the ncaa good. even if freeman summers clark and wright don't change at all (which shouldn't happen) i think having monroe at the 4 with another year of experience, and sims at the 5 playing well... and we are good.
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dchoyafan
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Post by dchoyafan on Mar 26, 2009 12:17:59 GMT -5
can someone explain why if sims is ready to play that he would start at the 4 and not the 5? I'd rather start sims out of position at the 5, than monroe out of position at the 5. Right? As was stated the 4 is the spotlight position in JTIIIs offense. Also in my opinion (assuming summers and greg both come back) I think our season more appropriately hinges on sims. If he can start and play 25 - 30 solid mins at the 5. I think we are second weekend in the ncaa good. even if freeman summers clark and wright don't change at all (which shouldn't happen) i think having monroe at the 4 with another year of experience, and sims at the 5 playing well... and we are good. 100% agreed. Good points.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 26, 2009 12:37:44 GMT -5
can someone explain why if sims is ready to play that he would start at the 4 and not the 5? I'd rather start sims out of position at the 5, than monroe out of position at the 5. Right? As was stated the 4 is the spotlight position in JTIIIs offense. Also in my opinion (assuming summers and greg both come back) I think our season more appropriately hinges on sims. If he can start and play 25 - 30 solid mins at the 5. I think we are second weekend in the ncaa good. even if freeman summers clark and wright don't change at all (which shouldn't happen) i think having monroe at the 4 with another year of experience, and sims at the 5 playing well... and we are good. Well offensively yes, but I was thinking more defensively. Monroe already plays the 4 on offense, the problem is we don't have anyone else to play down low. Defensively I don't think Sims will be able to defend the 5 nearly as well as Monroe will be able to with a year in the gym. I just hope everyone that is can return does, that is the key to this offseason. Keeping all returning players.
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