Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 16, 2009 16:28:53 GMT -5
Im just saying that in NY because there are so many people it is easier to get people to attend an event when in another city there would not be enough people who are interested in going (of course the BET is a huge draw regardless, but if for some reason it wasnt, being in NY would help keep fans in the building because it is more likely that there will SOME people walking around think "ok sure ill head to such and such event") As long as you're talking purely on a theoretical level, I don't even think this logic is necessarily a slamdunk. In New York, there are so many other things to spend your entertainment dollar on, that the mere fact of holding an event in that city doesn't guarantee better attendance than what you might get in some smaller city where the event is the only game in town. Knicks-Thunder might draw a bigger crowd in, say, Anchorage, AK, than in NYC.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Mar 16, 2009 17:19:59 GMT -5
Even though this discussion is entirely moot b/c the BET ain't going anywhere soon, and hopefully in my lifetime...
None of the former BET venues would work--the Carrier Dome is too remote, the Dunk is too small, and the XL Center could collapse at any moment.
It ain't going to a city without a BE team (Boston), and it sure as heck ain't going off the eastern seaboard.
The only city that could even form a reasonable argument is Washington, DC. And I can give you one quick and easy reason why that won't fly...the dirty little secret we cop to occasionally on Hoyatalk...
...the atmosphere at the Verizon Center is TERRIBLE.
You cannot match MSG at night for an important Big East game. Can't do it. I almost hope the NCAA doesn't go through with the plans to hold Tournament games at MSG post-renovation, because I (seriously) think MSG is better than a 1st/2nd round game.
I wasn't even there this year and so many elements of ESPN's broadcast instantly brought me back to how awesome a BET Final is. The pre-telecast intro of the Pitt band/UL fans in the lobby (I stood next to the cameraman shooting those exact shots of Pitt and GU in 2007). The lights dimming for the National Anthem w/ the spotlight. The looped versions of the hooks from "We Fly High" and "Hypnotize" over the lineup intros (greatest intro gimmick EVER). The 1,000,000,000,000 times better music MSG plays before tip and during timeouts (how awesome and appropriate was it to hear "December 1963 (Oh What A Night)" beofre the 3rd or 4th and "You Shook Me All Night Long" right before the 5th or 6th OT?).
I used to watch the BET all the way through even when GU was bad b/c it was such a competitive tournament. Now I watch it for that, but also because you cannot help but remember what it's like to be in that venue and that atmosphere...if they televised Cafe 31 post-game celebrations on ESPN I'd watch that too.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 16, 2009 22:05:29 GMT -5
Even though this discussion is entirely moot b/c the BET ain't going anywhere soon, and hopefully in my lifetime... None of the former BET venues would work--the Carrier Dome is too remote, the Dunk is too small, and the XL Center could collapse at any moment. It ain't going to a city without a BE team (Boston), and it sure as heck ain't going off the eastern seaboard. The only city that could even form a reasonable argument is Washington, DC. And I can give you one quick and easy reason why that won't fly...the dirty little secret we cop to occasionally on Hoyatalk... ...the atmosphere at the Verizon Center is TERRIBLE. You cannot match MSG at night for an important Big East game. Can't do it. I almost hope the NCAA doesn't go through with the plans to hold Tournament games at MSG post-renovation, because I (seriously) think MSG is better than a 1st/2nd round game. I wasn't even there this year and so many elements of ESPN's broadcast instantly brought me back to how awesome a BET Final is. The pre-telecast intro of the Pitt band/UL fans in the lobby (I stood next to the cameraman shooting those exact shots of Pitt and GU in 2007). The lights dimming for the National Anthem w/ the spotlight. The looped versions of the hooks from "We Fly High" and "Hypnotize" over the lineup intros (greatest intro gimmick EVER). The 1,000,000,000,000 times better music MSG plays before tip and during timeouts (how awesome and appropriate was it to hear "December 1963 (Oh What A Night)" beofre the 3rd or 4th and "You Shook Me All Night Long" right before the 5th or 6th OT?). I used to watch the BET all the way through even when GU was bad b/c it was such a competitive tournament. Now I watch it for that, but also because you cannot help but remember what it's like to be in that venue and that atmosphere...if they televised Cafe 31 post-game celebrations on ESPN I'd watch that Edited too. Also, it's IMPOSSIBLE to get to DC. Everyone here has been through this. Of all the ways I've travelled to DC (plane, train, car) the least painful has been the Chinatown bus. Think what I just said there for a second. The Garden should clearly stay. Chicago would be the only thing close but it's in what would primarily be considered Big Ten country so no go.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Mar 16, 2009 22:34:48 GMT -5
MSG has everything going for it location-wise. It's in the country's biggest media market, it's fairly centrally located for the Big East, it's right in the middle of the city, and it's directly on top of a major train station.
The only thing wrong with MSG is MSG itself. The place is a dump. Once you get inside the gates there's absolutely nothing special about it. It's too new to be historic, but old enough to be outdated. I'm not optimistic about the renovations either. I wish they had gone ahead with the plans to build a new Garden next to the current one.
The atmosphere at MSG can be good, but that comes mostly from the fans and the games being played there. If you take the same game with the same fans and play it at Verizon or any other modern arena you'd probably get just as good of an atmosphere. Heck, the rightfully-maligned Continental Airlines Arena was flat-out rocking at the end of our game against UNC.
Should the BET stay where it is? Absolutely. It's tradition, and NYC is the best place to hold it. But I say that despite MSG, not because of it.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Mar 17, 2009 10:13:31 GMT -5
I don't think the Phone Booth would be a horrible location. I've been to NCAA games a few times here, and it can be fun. Also, I'd like to think that we would have a slightly easier time getting tickets and filling the place with a few more HOYAS. At the very least we would have a few less Cuse and UConn fans lying around.
That said, nothing beats NYC and nothing beats the Garden.
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Mar 17, 2009 10:14:45 GMT -5
Also, it's IMPOSSIBLE to get to DC. Everyone here has been through this. Of all the ways I've travelled to DC (plane, train, car) the least painful has been the Chinatown bus. Think what I just said there for a second. The Garden should clearly stay. Chicago would be the only thing close but it's in what would primarily be considered Big Ten country so no go. What? This is silly. It's not that hard to get to DC.
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JS
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Post by JS on Mar 17, 2009 10:45:00 GMT -5
The only thing wrong with MSG is MSG itself. The place is a dump. Once you get inside the gates there's absolutely nothing special about it. It's too new to be historic, but old enough to be outdated. I'm not optimistic about the renovations either. I wish they had gone ahead with the plans to build a new Garden next to the current one. When the PA announcer welcomes you to "the world's most famous arena" I always think to myself that "most famous" ≠ "best." I enjoy going to MSG. I enjoy the Big East Tournament atmosphere at MSG. I'm not crazy about the building itself.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Mar 17, 2009 14:47:25 GMT -5
Moving the BET away from midtown manhattan for even one year would have to be the stupidest decision in sports since ESPN decided to fill their ticker with woman's NCAA scores.
There isn't a single conference tournament that can hold a candle to the BET. Being held every year at the same arena in the heart of world's greatest city is a huge part of that. It ain't broke, please don't try to fix it. The Garden may be a bit of a dump (being totally renovated still isn't it?), but the erection of a bona fine college campus atmosphere in NYC of all places for 5 days in March is one of the great acheivements the BE has ever pulled off.
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Mar 17, 2009 14:57:25 GMT -5
MSG has everything going for it location-wise. It's in the country's biggest media market, it's fairly centrally located for the Big East, it's right in the middle of the city, and it's directly on top of a major train station. The only thing wrong with MSG is MSG itself. The place is a dump. Once you get inside the gates there's absolutely nothing special about it. It's too new to be historic, but old enough to be outdated. I'm not optimistic about the renovations either. I wish they had gone ahead with the plans to build a new Garden next to the current one. The atmosphere at MSG can be good, but that comes mostly from the fans and the games being played there. If you take the same game with the same fans and play it at Verizon or any other modern arena you'd probably get just as good of an atmosphere. Heck, the rightfully-maligned Continental Airlines Arena was flat-out rocking at the end of our game against UNC. Should the BET stay where it is? Absolutely. It's tradition, and NYC is the best place to hold it. But I say that despite MSG, not because of it. They are hardly "renovations." They are completely re-doing the place. It will be every bit as nice as a brand new arena. This is a "renovation" only in the BS sense that Soldier Field was "renovated" just to get around some zoning regs probably. I agree with your basic premise though...as it stands now, MSG is a dump and because of all the huge renovations past it's history is wildly overstated- just like Yankee Stadium for that matter. But oh the location.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Mar 17, 2009 15:12:22 GMT -5
I don't think the Phone Booth would be a horrible location. I've been to NCAA games a few times here, and it can be fun. Also, I'd like to think that we would have a slightly easier time getting tickets and filling the place with a few more HOYAS. At the very least we would have a few less Cuse and UConn fans lying around. That said, nothing beats NYC and nothing beats the Garden. I dunno 'tables; Beers-n-Straws & Five Guys is a poooooor substitute for Giant Mug O' Beer & Blarney Stone. Plus, there's simply nothing that compares to the rooftop at the Hotel Penn
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Mar 17, 2009 16:19:49 GMT -5
Renovation details: www.msg.com/renovation/And the BE and MSG are close to re-upping their deal: www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=a6iliC5BsMDI&refer=homeWhich will be fine and dandy...although call me a traditionalist or hippie or hipster doofus or whatever, but I actually think "dump" = better atmosphere. Best atmosphere in the BE for me--West Virginia, and that place is fugly. Or more accurately, I think the atmosphere at (newer) NBA arenas stinks, and can't carry a "tournament" format alone absent a transcendent game. I'm a big proponent for NCAA 1st/2nd round games at sites like Dayton and Boise, or smaller towns/coliseum venues no bigger than say the LJVMC in Winston-Salem...and less at "arenas" like Miami, Kansas City, Portland, and other past sites like Dallas, Chicago, Anaheim. Just makes it more fun, IMO.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Mar 17, 2009 18:59:33 GMT -5
Renovation details: www.msg.com/renovation/And the BE and MSG are close to re-upping their deal: www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=a6iliC5BsMDI&refer=homeWhich will be fine and dandy...although call me a traditionalist or hippie or hipster doofus or whatever, but I actually think "dump" = better atmosphere. Best atmosphere in the BE for me--West Virginia, and that place is fugly. Or more accurately, I think the atmosphere at (newer) NBA arenas stinks, and can't carry a "tournament" format alone absent a transcendent game. I'm a big proponent for NCAA 1st/2nd round games at sites like Dayton and Boise, or smaller towns/coliseum venues no bigger than say the LJVMC in Winston-Salem...and less at "arenas" like Miami, Kansas City, Portland, and other past sites like Dallas, Chicago, Anaheim. Just makes it more fun, IMO. I agree with your basic premise. But MSG isn't one of those charming dumps with a great atmosphere. It's more Capital Center than WVU Coliseum. I've seen those renovation plans, and I'm not terribly impressed with them.
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royski
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Post by royski on Mar 17, 2009 19:03:44 GMT -5
It's good enough for LeBron to possibly become a Knick. It's good enough for me. Basketball games are meant to be played at the Garden. It's like playing on a stage. Between the history, the design, and the location, it better never move.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 17, 2009 20:58:15 GMT -5
Why we have a three page thread going on about the BET being anywhere else than 7th and 33rd st. is beyond me. What will be interesting is how long the Garden extends the contract which expires in 2011, and the potential impact upon the long term viability of a sixteen team league.
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HoyaSpirit
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Post by HoyaSpirit on Mar 17, 2009 22:11:50 GMT -5
Yeah, if you have never been, there is nothing like it. MSG and NYC in March is amazing- the Big East actually rotated sites early in their history (Syracuse, Providence) *, but once they settled on the World's Most Famous Arena, they found their home. If the Big East ever has their long-rumored split, the fight for which half gets their tournament at MSG will be huge. * Providence (1980), Syracuse (1981), Hartford as well (1982).Yeah - I went to the BET in providence with my Dad when i was really young - I guess it must have been 1980 since that's when you said Prov had it. I would have been 11. Been to the MSG BET 2 times and saw us beat Cuse in the finals in the late 80s! The only negative is the number of Cuse, Conn, SH and SJ fans close by so they tend to have numbers, though the Hoya contigent seems to have grown considerably. Consider that in the late 80s you only had a few years of students where the Hoyas were a national power and identified heavily with it. By now there have been almost 30 classes of students where most of the student identified at least somewhat with the team and would be likely to go to the BET if they were in NY. I also bet that proportionately a lot more GU grads in the last 20 years moved to NY than did say 40 years ago (students tended to go back to their home state more often back then) so are numbers in NY I bet are up too from that.
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