HOYA Column on Coach Thompson

[DanMcQ]

The Hoya - Dave Finn: It's Time to Take Thompson Off the Pedestal

have at it...

Slight edit on title--this is a sports column, not an editorial one.--Admin

[RockawayHoya]

I'm too exhausted after that game to write a long meaningful post, but this much is clear: Dave Finn is too young to truly understand what real disappointment is. Sure, we had a down year, but JTIII doesn't need or deserve students who have been on campus less than 2 years openly questioning him in the school newspaper. JTIII may have only been here 5 years, but that's still 3 years longer than you, Mr. Finn. And that's not even counting the countless years he spent growing up around this university and program. I understand it's an op-ed, but still... show the man some damn respect.

[Jack]

To his minor credit, Finn is measured in his criticism, but ultimately wrong, and completely myopic. Sounds like someone who decided to enroll at Georgetown the year they went to the Final 4 and is somehow crushed that he has already been there two whole years and they have not been back.

[sleepy]

Sounds like he compiled every single complaint on Hoyatalk over the past two years, crazy or not, into one program bashing article. Although he does state he wasn't intending to bash, though he called our coach mediocre, and states almost no positives, so it obviously wasn't bashing.
While it does make some valid points, I really question what basketball expierience he has to make some of the assumptions and critisims he made in this article.

Although I do think we found the real identity of Hoyaheaven.

[LCPolo18]

I wonder if this guy would have gone to Georgetown if Esherick was still the coach.

[tjm62]

I am a rather new Hoyas fan myself (graduating in a few months, I can hardly believe it), but to have a Sophomore writing this editorial seems a bit silly. From faithfully reading this board and looking back at Hoya history -- I can put Thompson's remarkable tenure (thus far) in a little more perspective. After all, even in VERY RECENT HISTORY this DEBACLE of a year had us with a better record than the two seasons preceding Thompson's first season.

I do agree that great coaches are made (and proven) over long periods of continued success -- but it seems crazy to call JTIII's early career anything but auspicious. Having seen a pair of Big East Titles (not to mention a raucous run down M Street after beating North Carolina), I am hard-pressed to complain about this year.

At the end of the day, we had one of the youngest teams in the game in a very difficult league (not to mention some apparently painful transfers and the mysterious collapse of Sapp). It was a young team unable to get itself out of a downward spiral, and I expect good things next year. It's easy to blame the coach, but I think it's more than reasonable (especially for the time being) to continue considering JTIII one of the great up-and-coming (if not flat out great) coaches in college basketball today.

So, Mr. Finn, I disagree.

Hear, hear

[Buckets]

The piece seems like a reaction to the positive, "lifetime-contract"-type conclusions that many people have reached. At the same time, it jumps to the same negative conclusions more quickly than many of these positive conclusions were reached.

He has shown that he can coach four-year players -- Princeton, and the class of '08 here, but he has not proven that he can coach another style of team -- the guys who aren't necessarily four-year players, rosters with a lot of turnover. I would contend that a great coach can coach different varieties of teams. Has JTIII done this yet? No, he hasn't. We've had a flat-out awful transfer rate.

So, while the text of the article may seem quite myopic, in terms of the title of the article, we may need to temper the attribution of "great" to III that does come up quite frequently on this board.

[rjmaxx]

*yawn*

A disappointing season followed by a op-ed piece that's critical of the coaching. Very original.

[paranoia2]

Kudos to anyone that has balls enough to voice the "harsh" opinion. Whether or not his Hoya lineage can be traced to Craig Shelton or Craig Esherick who cares? Sometimes parents ground kids or cut them off. It's called tough love. The amount of love is constant but the praise is missing. JT 3 is not happy with this year. Jonathan Wallace, Green, Hibbert, Crawford and Ewing were a special group. This group maybe special nexy year. But this young writer deserves respect for not going the easy way. This year was awful and can't be explained away by youth or tough scheduling. You don't throttle the Twerps, beat UCONN on the road and then lay more eggs than the easter bunny. I applaud the writer.

[theexorcist]

What gets me is the point of the editorial - it, uh, doesn't have one. If you argue that the current US response to the economic crisis is a failure, you proscribe some changes - you don't write an editorial that says that Obama isn't perfect. If you're going to write this op-ed, say something a heck of a lot more than that students shouldn't put their coach on a pedestal (and, given the yells in the crowd even during the Final Four year, people have no issues with criticizing the coaching). Really, III's not even up for an extension. And the Hoya is partially culpable for making this non-story by placing this as the lede.

[FLHoya]

What gets me (okay, not the only thing but the only thing I have time to write this morning):

He builds so many CYA caveats into his argument...

...you can't discount the Final Four, or the Big East championships, or the better recruits...we struggled b/c the BE is strong this year, we're inexperienced, our schedule was difficult...

...so you gotta think if he's gonna make this argument that Thompson isn't deserving of a pedestal, he'll have some strong basis for his opinion.

But where does he go for his first argument:

After conversations throughout the 2008-2009 season with many students who really know the game (a group that is unfortunately in the minority among Georgetown students), it seems like there is at least some concern for the way in which Thompson's offense does not fit his personnel

Wow! He talked to some students who "really know the game"...and there SEEMS like there may be SOME concern!

What kind of ridiculous arbitrary standard is that for evidence? And that parenthetical--way to take a dump on your primary readership by calling a lot of GTown student fans unknowledgable about basketball.


What bothers me isn't so much the premise that JT3 has work to do as a coach--I'll at least let folks argue their case, and it's a reasonable argument to make. But between the title (probably written by the editor) and the references to the JT3 and Obama shirts, you get the impression he's setting up this bizarre strawman (not Jim Burr)--he's mad b/c JT3 is "on a pedestal"? Does that mean he's popular? He doesn't get the praise for the coach? Guess if you're willing to use every accomplishment JT3 has had at GU merely as CYA for a bad argument, you won't quite get it.

Dude should have been around in 2004-2005 when in JT3's first year we finished the regular season 16-11 and looked ugly at times doing so, especially the end of the season. Wonder if this dude would have written the article then--since JT3 according to him wouldn't have had the "lengthy free pass"

But hey, we had Kurt Shirts in 2004-2005, and JT3 hadn't DONE ANYTHING yet! Talk about a pedestal.

(over/under on time until HoyaLS posts the inevitable "well, he/The Hoya got what they wanted by posting this column" post? ;D )

[hoyaheaven]

Kudos to Mr. Finn. Tell the truth about the worst team in the BE...with 3 McDs no less...and, like the blanket excuse of "youth" for personel, you too, Sir are labelled "too young".

What a joke. Mention that your AA center has spent the entire season at the top of the key chatting with dribble happy East-West guards (while the opposition cleans your clock)...and you're not supposed to wonder whether the entire coacking staff is ready for prime time.

Coach B at 'Cuse must love reading this Board.

Face it. This is a losing program...for whatever reason...but let the articulate Soph speak his mind.

[calhoya]

Give this kid a break for expressing an opinion. I have coached for 14 years at the high school level and still am learning about the game every year. I don't agree with many of his statements, but his criticisms are fair given the season the Hoyas just had and the meltdown that occurred. I enjoy reading the opinions on this board, but most are far too emotional. For those who watched last night's 6 OT game, you could see two of the coaching elders make many great moves and many bad ones. It's human nature. Overall JT III has done far more good than bad for this program, but let's all take a deep breath and let's not trash someone for disagreeing.

[bubbrubbhoya]

Counterpoint: "Dave Finn is a sophomore in the college."

Shove it, Finn. You were suckin' on your mama's teats when that man who did recruit Green and Hibbert (whose entire career was shaped by his own work ethic and Thompson's staff) was ruining the program.

[adlai]

This is simply pathetic. After four seasons of exceeding expectations one down season leads to this. Based on these standards, it seems that Mr. Finn is setting himself up for much disappointment in the future.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

The other item I would mention was watching our O during the JTII years was far from a thing of beauty. This team will get there and I am optimistic if we can hang onto all the guys we currently have.

JTIII is a hard worker and I think there will be a lot of evaluation and learning this off season by the coaching staff.

[Air Jordan]

So, this is what a sophmore with all about 3 months of basketball experience is like. So you say call it what it is, ok lets call it what it is. You look like you took every negative commit and applied it to you article here. We have one down year after years of being irrelevant in the basketball world, and now the sky is falling. Only thing the coach can do is coach, he can't play defense, he can't shoot free throws, he can't make passes, and he definitly cannot make the cuts in the lane for the players. He can only teach it, and if you hear him all year, he speaks about execution, "we didnt execute well today" JTIII has been quoted time and again saying that. So you can have all the athletic ability in the world son, if you do not execute or play smart your not going to win period, just that simple. And you speak on the players athletic ability, and adjusting the offense to them, who on this team is really that athletic and can play the up tempo style I have been hearing since Tuesday, Chris Wright, and thats only when he is under control. It seem obvious to me that you need to wirte on another topic, and leave Georgetown Basketball to people who know what they are talking about, because taking every negative comment and putting it here does not make you knowledgeable about the program. And maybe you need a t-shirt to tell you that.

This is what I posted to his editorial, hhhmmmm, had alot more I wanted to say but I'm so tired of these Monday morning quarterbacks it is sickening. It is obvious to me, that alot of folks hoped on the bandwagon during the final 4 run. But yes yes yes yes, there was a Hoya team before those years. The late 90's early 00's, ahhhh those of the years of the Victor Samnicks, Lee Scruggs,Eric Micoud, Shernard Long, Ed Sheffey, Anthony Perry, and the Irvin Churchs of Georgetown Basketball that I remember. See coming fom then to now, see it just seems to me that he talked to the wrong people or should of made some phone calls. And he wants to talk about coachs on pedalstals he needs to go down south, where coachs who have been at the helm of programs for years and have not won, but the fans still cheerish the coachs. I can go on and on about this article but I'm going to lay it to rest. But it wasnt so long ago the our beloved Hoyas were a joke in the NCAA world not even to talk about our status in the Big East back then. So if we want to put JTIII on a pedestal for reincarnating a program left for dead then it is what we want to do. And not going to let some sophmore all about the age of 19 years old wasnt even born when the Hoyas won there Championship in 1984 tell me other wise. HAIL JTIII

[blueandgray]

here is a guy who has to rely speaking to certain students "who really know the game" so that he can criticize the coach....sophmoric!!

[hoyas big supporter]

agree with the lineup comment about the uconn game, i noticed the amount of minutes logged in that game and thought he had finally found the right lineup. also the lineup comments about the depaul game and late season. other than that get rid of it

[GPHoya]

Mercifully, I am unable to locate and reread the column that I wrote for The Hoya in the winter of 1974 under the title of "The Honeymoon is Over". As I recall it, the basic theme was that John Thompson Jr, (hired 18 months earlier) was a good recruiter and motivator, but that he did not teach fundamentals well and that he had no idea how to structure a half court offense. I would like to think that I left open the possibility that he was new to the college game, that his team was very young, and that he might grow and improve over time, but this may be wishful thinking on the extent of my wisdom.

I am pretty sure that I forgot to mention that I was 21 years old and a moron. In the ensuing 35 years, I have recognized that I was not only a moron then, but that, on reflection, I am pretty much still a moron when it comes to true basketball expertise. If you have doubts, ask the kids I coached in CYO

This does not keep me from thinking that I would have had at least one back screen set for Stanley Robinson to receive a diagonal lob for a dunk that might have forced Syracuse to defend the baseline and open the foul line for Jeff Adrien and that HOF 800 win coach Jim Calhoun should hire me to replace George Blaney as his assistant.

My wish for Mr. Finn is that will not be able to retrieve his column in 35 years and that he will be both chagrined and delighted that John Thompson III accomplished so much in the course of teaching him a lesson in humility. More importantly, that he has as much fun coaching his kids' CYO teams as I did coaching mine.