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Post by formerbearcat on Mar 13, 2009 14:14:44 GMT -5
At last year's final four, the cocktail conversation at the various media and sponsor events was about open coaching positions and the likely candidates to fill those vacancies. JTIII's name always seemed to be on the short list.
GU is lucky to have JTIII. Yes, in previous posts I have raised my dissatisfaction with some of his decisions and playing style, but he is an outstanding coach and recruiter.
Let's not run him out of town, he is a hot commodity in the coaching profession. Also, he comes to GU at a bargain price as compared to the compensation of some of his peers, and he has to deal with the fact that GU's facilities just terrible.
One sub par year after what he has accomplished, let's give coach a pass.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Mar 13, 2009 14:18:27 GMT -5
Is it November yet?
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 747
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Post by SirSaxa on Mar 13, 2009 14:31:28 GMT -5
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Mar 13, 2009 15:07:24 GMT -5
Wow glad I didn't see this earlier. Haven't read everything but i assume the board has pointed out over and over again how stupid this column is. It seems his major beef is that the students and fans love their coach. He sounds like a nerd who doesn't know why people like sports. Why would we want to embrace our coach and show our support for him? So if we ignore everything good he's ever done it's obvious he sucks. If you can't see that you obviously don't know anything about basketball.
It's fine to criticize coach but no need to bash him. Of course he's still learning as a coach, who isn't. Just because he's not perfect doesn't mean he shouldn't be loved and admired.
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hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,652
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Mar 13, 2009 15:09:23 GMT -5
It's articles like this that make me fully supportive of The Hoya's independence movement. The sooner the thought process that produces this article is fully removed and unaffiliated with Georgetown, the sooner the merits of every alum's diploma goes up. And no, that wasn't supposed to be reasoned or constructive criticism. I'm not going to take the bait and respond in depth to this asinine remark, except to say two things: 1) 23 of the schools in the US News and World Report top 25 have independent student papers. The "merits of every alum's diploma" may actually improve when The Hoya is independent, but not because Dave Finn no longer writes for a university-funded publication and 2) An independent Hoya would not be "fully removed and unaffiliated" -- it will still be Georgetown students, like Dave Finn, producing the paper and you'll still get it at all the same places on campus. And FL, I've been away from my computer for a while, so I hope you lost your bet.
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Post by hoyaheaven on Mar 13, 2009 15:14:40 GMT -5
I have felt all season that with 3 McDs on board we were at least a decent BE competitor not a 2 time loser to the likes of SJU...Yup, I think the PO is much more a liability than an asset...but I AM an amateur...observing the scene somewhat at a distance and somewhat in awe.
Alas I'm no coach. No expert. Could very well be that I'm a dummy, actually. And thankfully the heated moment of disappointment is only yesterday's news.
So got to put my money where my mouth is...here goes...
All in, you guys are RIGHT...III is a gem of a catch for Georgetown.
I eat my words and will be 4+ on III when the Fall of '09 rolls around.
Hoya Saxa.
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tjm62
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 855
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Post by tjm62 on Mar 13, 2009 15:22:00 GMT -5
Maybe we'll beat St. Johns at Citi Field in a few weeks and redeem ourselves.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Mar 13, 2009 15:26:49 GMT -5
C2C, Filling in for Lic I see! But you forgot to include ;D ;D And FormerBearcat... right on the money. Merely emulating the inimitable man's sentiment!! ;D ;D As for the article, now I don't need to read it after reading 4 pages about it, so thanks, all. Interesting to hear about the different sentiments on campus about III. Having lived through being asked to sit down during games in the student section in '99, the debacle that was '02, and the comic tragedy of '04, I'll take a little lovin' of the coach leaning toward hero worship over hatin' of the coach leaning toward despair, apathy, and revolution ANY day. What III has done in his short time here is remarkable. I think he gets a bye on this season. Speaking with Jon and Tyler a couple weeks ago assuaged a lot of my worries, and the comparisons to 04-05 are apt. As for the article itself, criticism is always ok so long as it's constructive, in context, and aimed at an improvement of product. Sounds like reasonable minds differ on whether the article achieved that mark.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,136
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 13, 2009 15:31:31 GMT -5
Basketball wise, JT3>Jay Wright Wright has one BE regular season championship and that's it. He's never won the BET, never made the Final Four and he's been in the NIT 4 of the 10 years he's been at Nova. I feel like I’ve had this debate with you or somebody else before. Don’t get me wrong I like JTIII better and definitely wouldn’t trade him. But it’s closer than we might like to think. Wright hasn't been in the NIT in 4 of the 10 years he's been at Nova. If you include this year he's been at Nova for 8 years and he's been in the NIT for only 3 of em. The key is, it was the first 3 seasons he was there, and he hasn't been back since. That's maybe the biggest thing he has going for him. Both inherited floundering programs. III turned his around much quicker. Thing is, and I know it’s a moderately sore spot, but III inherited a floundering program that had 2 TERRIFIC recruits coming in, 2 future 1st round picks. Wright did not have that advantage. Can’t remember many of Novas guys before the Raye/Foye/Sumpter/Fraser class, but I know they were not especially talented. And it wasn’t until that class reached maturity in their junior year that they righted the ship. But since then, they haven’t missed the NCAAs once... The elite programs will find their way into the tourney just about every year, even the down ones after you lose a great group. III wasn’t able to find his way in while trying to rebuild after his great group (JW, Roy, Pat, Jeff) left, but Wright found his way in the last 2 years after his great core (Ray, Foye, Lowry etc.) left… albeit by the skin of their teeth the last 2 years. On big achievements, III has the trump card with the Final 4… But it’s funny how a close break can be looked at as such a huge difference. Villanova absolute outplayed UNC in ’05 and absolutely deserved to go to the Elite 8 but got robbed by a horrible phantom travel call. If they don’t make that call pretty decent chance Nova beats Wisconsin and goes to the Final 4. On the other hand, Georgetown got the benefit of a huge no-call against Vandy in ’07. If they call that walk—and they reasonably could have-- that season is another Sweet 16 season, a bit of a disappointment, and the complexion of III’s tenure is totally different. JT3’s 2 BE Regular season titles, 1 BET, 1 Sweet 16 and 1 Final 4 are better than Wright’s 1 BE Regular season, 2 Sweet 16s and 1 Elite 8… but it isn’t by a huge margin, especially when you consider the lucky break we got and the unlucky one they didn’t. Not to mention that Wright’s still in the hunt for a BET title right now and barring upset they’re looking at a Sweet 16 or better again this year. You also, IMO, have to factor in that Wright is hot right now. He has a good team who is in the hunt to win the BET and make a run in the tourney, while III’s team just finished 12th in the conference and had a very ugly first round ousting in the BET. Since his own recruits came to maturity, Wright has never had a season that bad. If you revisit this in a few weeks Wright’s resume will likely be better, IIIs will definitely not be. AND, it’s also worth mentioning that Wright has the #1 recruiting class coming in next year, with 2 All-Americans plus big man Mouph Yarou who is going to kill us. Wright plays a fast-paced open style that kids like and want to be a part of, while the whispers that III’s system misused Hibbert, couldn’t handle Macklin and is stifling the current All-Americans are getting louder (not saying I buy this or anyone else should, but this is unquestionably the vibe among a lot of young ballers). While III’s resume is better for the moment, Wright definitely looks like he’s on an upswing, and III definitely looks like he’s in a bit of a trough. I’d like to reiterate that I’m a huge fan of III and absolutely would not trade him for Wright. But I bet the Nova fans wouldn’t trade Wright for III either. It’s a fairly close call—fortunately they’ll settle it over the next couple decades. To Fever's point... maybe your right. I guess when I was there most of the students hadn't seen the final 4 before they made their college decision, and maybe that changes thing.
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Post by wrestlemania on Mar 13, 2009 15:36:40 GMT -5
This brings back memories of that incident a few years ago at Duke, when Coach K verbally assaulted the staff of the school paper after they wrote an article that criticized his players. Truly a memorable tirade, by all accounts.
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Boz
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
123 Fireballs!
Posts: 10,355
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Post by Boz on Mar 13, 2009 15:36:43 GMT -5
I wonder if the author would be willing to go on the John Thompson radio show to explain his point of view.
Now THAT would be some entertainment.
;D
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Post by wrestlemania on Mar 13, 2009 15:41:39 GMT -5
I wonder if the author would be willing to go on the John Thompson radio show to explain his point of view. Now THAT would be some entertainment. ;D Mitchell-Portis II !!
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Post by wrestlemania on Mar 13, 2009 15:43:14 GMT -5
This brings back memories of that incident a few years ago at Duke, when Coach K verbally assaulted the staff of the school paper after they wrote an article that criticized his players. Truly a memorable tirade, by all accounts. Are you sure you don't mean Boewhine? He flipped his sht when the school paper called out G-Mac. EDIT: Boz, agree wholeheartedly. Finn would crap hisself if he had to defend the indefensible to Big John. I remember the Cuse thing, but I know the K incident really happened. Got a fair amount of press re: he ain't Father Flanagan.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
Posts: 8,740
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 13, 2009 16:04:20 GMT -5
Basketball wise, JT3>Jay Wright Wright has one BE regular season championship and that's it. He's never won the BET, never made the Final Four and he's been in the NIT 4 of the 10 years he's been at Nova. I feel like I’ve had this debate with you or somebody else before. Don’t get me wrong I like JTIII better and definitely wouldn’t trade him. But it’s closer than we might like to think. Wright hasn't been in the NIT in 4 of the 10 years he's been at Nova. If you include this year he's been at Nova for 8 years and he's been in the NIT for only 3 of em. The key is, it was the first 3 seasons he was there, and he hasn't been back since. That's maybe the biggest thing he has going for him. Both inherited floundering programs. III turned his around much quicker. Thing is, and I know it’s a moderately sore spot, but III inherited a floundering program that had 2 TERRIFIC recruits coming in, 2 future 1st round picks. Wright did not have that advantage. Can’t remember many of Novas guys before the Raye/Foye/Sumpter/Fraser class, but I know they were not especially talented. And it wasn’t until that class reached maturity in their junior year that they righted the ship. But since then, they haven’t missed the NCAAs once... The elite programs will find their way into the tourney just about every year, even the down ones after you lose a great group. III wasn’t able to find his way in while trying to rebuild after his great group (JW, Roy, Pat, Jeff) left, but Wright found his way in the last 2 years after his great core (Ray, Foye, Lowry etc.) left… albeit by the skin of their teeth the last 2 years. On big achievements, III has the trump card with the Final 4… But it’s funny how a close break can be looked at as such a huge difference. Villanova absolute outplayed UNC in ’05 and absolutely deserved to go to the Elite 8 but got robbed by a horrible phantom travel call. If they don’t make that call pretty decent chance Nova beats Wisconsin and goes to the Final 4. On the other hand, Georgetown got the benefit of a huge no-call against Vandy in ’07. If they call that walk—and they reasonably could have-- that season is another Sweet 16 season, a bit of a disappointment, and the complexion of III’s tenure is totally different. JT3’s 2 BE Regular season titles, 1 BET, 1 Sweet 16 and 1 Final 4 are better than Wright’s 1 BE Regular season, 2 Sweet 16s and 1 Elite 8… but it isn’t by a huge margin, especially when you consider the lucky break we got and the unlucky one they didn’t. Not to mention that Wright’s still in the hunt for a BET title right now and barring upset they’re looking at a Sweet 16 or better again this year. You also, IMO, have to factor in that Wright is hot right now. He has a good team who is in the hunt to win the BET and make a run in the tourney, while III’s team just finished 12th in the conference and had a very ugly first round ousting in the BET. Since his own recruits came to maturity, Wright has never had a season that bad. If you revisit this in a few weeks Wright’s resume will likely be better, IIIs will definitely not be. AND, it’s also worth mentioning that Wright has the #1 recruiting class coming in next year, with 2 All-Americans plus big man Mouph Yarou who is going to kill us. Wright plays a fast-paced open style that kids like and want to be a part of, while the whispers that III’s system misused Hibbert, couldn’t handle Macklin and is stifling the current All-Americans are getting louder (not saying I buy this or anyone else should, but this is unquestionably the vibe among a lot of young ballers). While III’s resume is better for the moment, Wright definitely looks like he’s on an upswing, and III definitely looks like he’s in a bit of a trough. I’d like to reiterate that I’m a huge fan of III and absolutely would not trade him for Wright. But I bet the Nova fans wouldn’t trade Wright for III either. It’s a fairly close call—fortunately they’ll settle it over the next couple decades. To Fever's point... maybe your right. I guess when I was there most of the students hadn't seen the final 4 before they made their college decision, and maybe that changes thing. I'd bet it was JerseyHoya. Railing on Wright is usually his schtick. And you're right about Wright's postseasons--I misread the table. There's still the whole calling card scandal where he had to suspend half his team (and yes, that matters) and his lack of success in the BET. And from what I recall, the "phantom travel" call was over hyped by folks who wanted UNC to fail/stir up controversy as much as Jeff's "travel" was by folks who wanted Gtown to lose/stir up controversy. Of course, you're right about his ability to add to his resume this year, but first he's going to have to go through Louisville. Not to mention the fact that JT3's 6-3 against Wright. Wright's a good coach, but he quite simply has not accomplished as much as JT3, and until he wins a BET or a Regional, he can't say that he has.
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McBricks
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
What Rocks.
Posts: 1,173
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Post by McBricks on Mar 13, 2009 16:28:29 GMT -5
I for one want to give the author some due credit. He's been singlehandedly able to get 99% of this board to agree on something - that we're lucky to have JTIII and that the author needs a little perspective. Cheers to that.
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richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
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Post by richfame on Mar 13, 2009 17:17:14 GMT -5
FOTP- The only coach i know who was close to being successful was Jim Boeheim. In Boeheim's first 4 years he had:26,22, 26,26 wins thats not to shabby. Thats 4 ncaa tournaments and 3 years got to the sweet 16. Theres one big east champ in there and one regular season big east champ in there. Probably not as good as JT3, But still impressive...
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NJHoya95
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 206
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Post by NJHoya95 on Mar 13, 2009 19:05:34 GMT -5
This whole debate is insane. This kid obviously has no idea where this program came from. Getting killed in the NIT by Princeton in 1999. Samauri swords! One hundred miles an hour! NCAA tourney being the exception, rather than the rule. We had a down year. I am sad about it. But this kid has no clue how bad it was since 1997 befor 3 arrived.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,607
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Post by guru on Mar 13, 2009 19:08:40 GMT -5
Basketball wise, JT3>Jay Wright Wright has one BE regular season championship and that's it. He's never won the BET, never made the Final Four and he's been in the NIT 4 of the 10 years he's been at Nova. I feel like I’ve had this debate with you or somebody else before. Don’t get me wrong I like JTIII better and definitely wouldn’t trade him. But it’s closer than we might like to think. Wright hasn't been in the NIT in 4 of the 10 years he's been at Nova. If you include this year he's been at Nova for 8 years and he's been in the NIT for only 3 of em. The key is, it was the first 3 seasons he was there, and he hasn't been back since. That's maybe the biggest thing he has going for him. Both inherited floundering programs. III turned his around much quicker. Thing is, and I know it’s a moderately sore spot, but III inherited a floundering program that had 2 TERRIFIC recruits coming in, 2 future 1st round picks. Wright did not have that advantage. Can’t remember many of Novas guys before the Raye/Foye/Sumpter/Fraser class, but I know they were not especially talented. And it wasn’t until that class reached maturity in their junior year that they righted the ship. But since then, they haven’t missed the NCAAs once... The elite programs will find their way into the tourney just about every year, even the down ones after you lose a great group. III wasn’t able to find his way in while trying to rebuild after his great group (JW, Roy, Pat, Jeff) left, but Wright found his way in the last 2 years after his great core (Ray, Foye, Lowry etc.) left… albeit by the skin of their teeth the last 2 years. On big achievements, III has the trump card with the Final 4… But it’s funny how a close break can be looked at as such a huge difference. Villanova absolute outplayed UNC in ’05 and absolutely deserved to go to the Elite 8 but got robbed by a horrible phantom travel call. If they don’t make that call pretty decent chance Nova beats Wisconsin and goes to the Final 4. On the other hand, Georgetown got the benefit of a huge no-call against Vandy in ’07. If they call that walk—and they reasonably could have-- that season is another Sweet 16 season, a bit of a disappointment, and the complexion of III’s tenure is totally different. JT3’s 2 BE Regular season titles, 1 BET, 1 Sweet 16 and 1 Final 4 are better than Wright’s 1 BE Regular season, 2 Sweet 16s and 1 Elite 8… but it isn’t by a huge margin, especially when you consider the lucky break we got and the unlucky one they didn’t. Not to mention that Wright’s still in the hunt for a BET title right now and barring upset they’re looking at a Sweet 16 or better again this year. You also, IMO, have to factor in that Wright is hot right now. He has a good team who is in the hunt to win the BET and make a run in the tourney, while III’s team just finished 12th in the conference and had a very ugly first round ousting in the BET. Since his own recruits came to maturity, Wright has never had a season that bad. If you revisit this in a few weeks Wright’s resume will likely be better, IIIs will definitely not be. AND, it’s also worth mentioning that Wright has the #1 recruiting class coming in next year, with 2 All-Americans plus big man Mouph Yarou who is going to kill us. Wright plays a fast-paced open style that kids like and want to be a part of, while the whispers that III’s system misused Hibbert, couldn’t handle Macklin and is stifling the current All-Americans are getting louder (not saying I buy this or anyone else should, but this is unquestionably the vibe among a lot of young ballers). While III’s resume is better for the moment, Wright definitely looks like he’s on an upswing, and III definitely looks like he’s in a bit of a trough. I’d like to reiterate that I’m a huge fan of III and absolutely would not trade him for Wright. But I bet the Nova fans wouldn’t trade Wright for III either. It’s a fairly close call—fortunately they’ll settle it over the next couple decades. To Fever's point... maybe your right. I guess when I was there most of the students hadn't seen the final 4 before they made their college decision, and maybe that changes thing. From what I've read on the Nova message boards, lots of their fans would trade Writht for JT3, or many other coaches for that matter. Wright is a very good recruiter but a horrible game coach. Watch his team blow this second half lead against Louisville.
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rjmaxx
Member
the REAL Illest
Posts: 95
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Post by rjmaxx on Mar 13, 2009 19:15:44 GMT -5
FADE IN
INT. COLLEGE DORM ROOM - NIGHT
Wide shot of a typical college dorm room. Empty cans of Red Bull, Monster, or the jack-me-up drink du jour strewn on the floor, bookshelf and desk. Various artwork adorns the walls, again typical college stuff - except for the "High School Musical 3" poster on the closet door. Room is dimly lit, save for the familiar glow of a computer screen.
CLOSE ON BACK OF A HEAD. Student sitting at the computer.
STUDENT'S POV: Computer screen. Internet browser open, standard college fare in the various tabs. Facebook is open and the "College Students Who Know Basketball" group is featured. We see the "Hoyatalk" website url being typed into the address bar. Link to "The Hoya Op-Ed on Coach Thompson" is highlighted and clicked.
ANGLE ON STUDENT'S FACE: Giggling unmercifully.
STUDENT'S POV: Back to computer screen. Microsoft Word is up, a document is opened - it's evidently the student's resume. As the student types, we see the following words appear on the screen under the "Experience" section:
"Editorial piece for student newspaper generated over a four page thread dedicated to its discussion. Nearly 3,000 topic views."
ANGLE ON STUDENT'S FACE: A smug smile
FADE OUT
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
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Post by vcjack on Mar 13, 2009 19:26:57 GMT -5
By this guy's logic we should have gotten rid of the Roy Roy Roy chant after one of his 0 pointers against Nova and no one should have dared to adopt Jessie's dynasty hand sign after his disappointing season.
Like RBHoya said no Thompson supporters I know are in denial about this year or about the things he can do better but the point of the shirts and chants are not an argument: its a statement. They are statements of support for the program.
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