royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by royski on Mar 4, 2009 16:27:18 GMT -5
I don't think this qualifies as speculation, rather it is serious discussion of the state of the program, especially heading into next season.
Chad Ford ranks Greg Monroe as the #3 prospect in the draft class. While we all like to pick on him, there's no doubt that he doesn't put a freshman not putting up huge numbers in that slot unless that's what he's hearing from NBA scouts and GMs. If Monroe (and Summers) stays, then sure, I agree that next season will probably be a big success. But it seems to me overwhelmingly likely that he does NOT stay. (offhand comments to a beat reporter notwithstanding)
And then the question becomes, what is the state of the program for next year? Is this a tournament team a year from now without Monroe? Is it a tournament team without Monroe and Summers? Is it an NIT team?
This isn't the place to discuss WHETHER players will stay or go, that's entirely speculation. It's to discuss what will happen IF they go. And personally, I think that if Monroe goes, we're in bad shape. Discuss.
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Mar 4, 2009 16:37:36 GMT -5
If Monroe leaves and Dajuan stays are starting lineup will be
Wright Freeman Dajuan Sims (Or Nikita or Hollis) Vaughn
with the bench in order
Clark Nikita Hollis Omar
I think that lineup has a shot at making the tournament if the players who are effectively freshmen this year (Wright, Sims, Nikita, and Clark) all make the normal Freshman - Sophomore jump and Vaughn gets better.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by royski on Mar 4, 2009 16:40:15 GMT -5
The idea of Vaughn as our starting center in the Big East terrifies me.
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by kghoya on Mar 4, 2009 17:10:09 GMT -5
for what it's worth...nbadraft.net has taken dajuan and greg off of their 2009 mock
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 4, 2009 17:16:54 GMT -5
Personally, I don't think this becomes an "elephant" until at LEAST the end of April, if any Hoyas submit their names. Really, it doesn't become an elephant until early to mid-June.
'Til then, I'll take them at their word.
But feel free to wallow in the misery of unknowable what-ifs.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by royski on Mar 4, 2009 17:20:11 GMT -5
Boz, I'm referring to some of the talk on the board about how much we'll improve next year. I think it's probably predicated on a false notion, and I think its totally unreasonable to evaluate the state of the program while pretending that we're automatically going to get back our freshman center who is projected as a top 5 pick.
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Post by hobokenhoya on Mar 4, 2009 17:39:58 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm more worried about losing players to transfer rather than the draft at this point. I know it makes no sense for our guys who are thinking NBA this year to transfer, I'm talking about the rest. I think that's the real elephant in the room.
I don't care what you want to call it, but what I have seen has been more than a lack of experience, an inability to rebound or to close games, or even make shots. I see a team that is confused, at times lethargic, and with the exception of Wright and Sapp, one that lacks emotion. There is a problem with this group that supercedes X's and O's, and that is what scares the heck out of me.
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Post by michaelgrahamfan on Mar 4, 2009 18:04:36 GMT -5
2 weeks ago I started a thread about transfer and recruiting issues and I was told I was an alarmest and a BOZO. Nice.
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Post by westendhoya on Mar 4, 2009 18:09:55 GMT -5
If you watched the game last night you will know Greg is not leaving. His weakness down low certainly raised some eyebrows from NBA scouts.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 4, 2009 18:35:50 GMT -5
Even without Monroe, this team has enough to build on to be a NCAA tourney team. There were some intangible things that this team lacked and we did get a few crappy breaks along the way. I think with the typical improvement curve you see from your freshmen, this team will be OK in a much weaker big east.
Also, Monroe's ceiling is limitless but he is replaceable. His 13 points and 7 boards a game are not insurmountable and you could argue the defense will not be any worse off, although his ability to create steals is pretty impressive.
The thing is WITH Monroe this team really begins to stand out from everyone else. Personally, I think he is coming back. He just seems like a guy that does not want to leave unfinished business on the court. I would support his decision either way is he is a Top 5 pick though.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 4, 2009 18:40:07 GMT -5
We would definitely need a JuCo without Greg. And yes, we would be substantially worse. He's top two in points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks.
If he returns with weight on him and we send him to Alonzo attitude camp, we have a chance to be very good.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 5, 2009 10:31:43 GMT -5
I don't think this qualifies as speculation, rather it is serious discussion of the state of the program, especially heading into next season. Chad Ford ranks Greg Monroe as the #3 prospect in the draft class. While we all like to pick on him, there's no doubt that he doesn't put a freshman not putting up huge numbers in that slot unless that's what he's hearing from NBA scouts and GMs. If Monroe (and Summers) stays, then sure, I agree that next season will probably be a big success. But it seems to me overwhelmingly likely that he does NOT stay. (offhand comments to a beat reporter notwithstanding) And then the question becomes, what is the state of the program for next year? Is this a tournament team a year from now without Monroe? Is it a tournament team without Monroe and Summers? Is it an NIT team? This isn't the place to discuss WHETHER players will stay or go, that's entirely speculation. It's to discuss what will happen IF they go. And personally, I think that if Monroe goes, we're in bad shape. Discuss. This is, of course, idiotic. You dismiss the "offhand comments" made by Greg HIMSELF, yet want us to base a discussion on your personal, unfounded assertion that it is "overwhelmingly unlikely that he will stay". Without, of course, any basis but your own evident genius in assessing this young man, and apparently knowing that he is not a man of his word. Ridiculous. I am surprised this drivel has not been locked.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 5, 2009 10:48:50 GMT -5
Chad Ford is like unemployment. He sucks. Well, also, he's a lagging indicator in most cases.
But, regardless, Monroe could be a lottery pick if he chooses. Yes, he has no right hand right now. Yes, he needs to bulk up and meanery up. Yes, he needs a better jumper. Yes, he's not an obscene athlete.
Whatever. He's a lottery pick. But all indications are that he is looking long term and wants to return to college. So why worry? He may go, he may not. What happens, happens.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Mar 5, 2009 11:01:56 GMT -5
I don't think we lose much if Monroe decides to leave.
if Monroe was playing like Blake Griffin it would be a foregone conclusion. but he isn't.
what are we now with him? he has been part of the problem with our recent struggles.
we would still have Dajuan, Freeman, Wright, Clark, an improving Nikita and Vaughn. Hollis will be in the mix. And hopefully Sims wil have developed some. And maybe we sign a big man or two that we desperately need to go along with only true big man we have in Vaughn.
Personally, i think Monroe is a 4-year player with the hype of lotto pick. And that hype may well get him drafted in the top 3. A place where most likely he would have to leave early.
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Post by jld54 on Mar 5, 2009 11:14:57 GMT -5
Lets not delude ourselves. Greg is the best freshman in the BE this year. He has the potential to be an excellent college player if he stays another year or two. He needs improvement in strength but has the frame to develop if he hits the weights and gains a few lbs. He needs work on mental toughness, his right hand, and a mid-range jumper. Overall he has had a B/B+ year, all considered.
I think that it would be very bad for us if he leaves after one year. He and Chris will be the core of this team going forward, if all works out, as they are the most talented players, and with mental maturity will be tough to deal with, particularly when the top BE teams of this year lose their seniors and/or early entries non-seniors (Thabeet, Blair, Harangody?).
The player we could afford to lose is Summers, if he decides to leave.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 5, 2009 11:21:43 GMT -5
Pay no attention. I'm pretty sure Greg stole the_way's lunch money or kicked his dog or something at some point.
We all know Greg has a lot of work to do, I'm betting Greg knows it too, but I am predicting that -- unless royski's morbid fantasies come true* -- he will be a great Hoya before all is said and done.
(yes, royski, I'm picking on you, but all in fun ;D ; I think know your intention when starting this thread, but I also know what the thread will and has turned into)
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Mar 5, 2009 11:26:12 GMT -5
If Dajuan and Monroe don't return Don't expect good things. Hope for them, but don't expect them. We'd still have a solid team, that will probably have a better big east record than this years team has in big east play. But i wouldn't expect us to challenge for the league title like we could if everyone returns. Everyone besides nova will be severely depleted. Here are the seniors and then likely early entry canidates( won't necessarily go but may test waters: Cinci: Seniors: (Possibly mike williams transfered in but was injured the first season he was available so i assume he still has one more year if he wants it) Early entry: Deonta Vaughn
Uconn: Seniors: Jeff Adrien, Craig Austrie, AJ Price. EA: Hasheem Thabeet, Stanley Robinson( Probably not)
Depaul: Seniors: Jabari Currie, Matija Poscic ; EA: Dar tucker, Mac Koshwal
Louisville: S: Terrance Williams, Andre McGee EA: Earl Clark, Smardo Sammuels
Marquette: S: McNeal, James, Mathews, Burke EA: hayward
Notre dame:S: Ayers, Hillsland, McAlareny, Luke Zeller EA: Harangody
Pitt: S: Biggs, Brown, Fields, young; EA: Blair
Providence: S: Weyinmi Efejuku, Randall Hanke, Jeff Xavier, Geoff McDermott; EA: none
Rutgers: S: Farmer, Griffin, Inman EA: Rosario, Echenique, Ndyiae
St. Johns: S: Anthony Mason Jr( can he red shirt?) EA: none
Seton Hall: S: paul gause, john garcia EA: none
USF: S: Jesus verdejo, Ajayi Mobolaji EA: none
Syracuse: Kristof Ongenaet EA: Johnny Flynn
Nova: Anderson, clark, cunningham EA: None (reynolds)
WV: Ruoff EA: Ebanks
Most teams are losing a lot.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Mar 5, 2009 11:30:43 GMT -5
Crap, Syracuse is going to be good next year, aren't they?
Well, with any luck and if current trends continue, their players' true character will shine and half of them will be in jail by next November.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 5, 2009 11:33:49 GMT -5
Crap, Syracuse is going to be good next year, aren't they? Well, with any luck and if current trends continue, their players' true character will shine and half of them will be in jail by next November. Let's be honest--if they don't commit a federal crime, they won't have to serve any time. Expecting Cuse players to go to jail is like expecting them to flunk out of school--yes, they probably should, but it's not going to happen while they're on the basketball team.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Mar 5, 2009 11:36:04 GMT -5
Next year it looks like Syracuse will be good assuming they can find someone to run point. Nova should be good since they're brigning in a sick recruiting class. WV doesn't lose much but i don't know what they're bringing in. Cinci will be pretty good since they don't lose much, If blair stays pitt will still be good. If we bring everyone back we're right up there with these 5. Uconn, louisville, marquette, ND, providence will be down. Uconn and louisville might have enough recruits that they won't fall too much, but this is the year for the other 3.
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