Bando
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Post by Bando on Dec 4, 2008 12:43:23 GMT -5
The Federal Transit Administration has approved Metro's proposed Silver line ( WaPo link). In the near term, this means Tyson's Corner will be on the subway and that Tyson's will transform from office parks into a dense cityscape. Long term, it means rail to Dulles Airport and Leesburg. Obviously as a transit enthusiast, I'm happy about this. It's good that it's being built, and it's good that the large amounts of oxygen that the Silver Line sucked up will be freed for new transit projects (cough, new line downtown). What does everyone think?
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PhillyHoya
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Post by PhillyHoya on Dec 4, 2008 12:54:54 GMT -5
This is great to hear. I used to work in Tyson's and 66 was a bitch everyday. Hopefully now they can build that tunnel between Metro Center and Chinatown.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Dec 4, 2008 12:58:41 GMT -5
If you've ever driven in Tysons during the holidays you know this is long overdue. I really hope that the anticipated increased investment in mass transit means that WMATA can build the separate blue line through downtown and the planned walking path from Farragut North to Farragut West to cut traffic through Metro Center and Gallery Place.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Dec 4, 2008 13:18:57 GMT -5
It is an awful, awful idea.
1. Tyson's isn't designed for public transit. People hate buses, which don't run that often and which get stuck in traffic, so any idea of "nodes" won't work, either.
2. The Orange Line passed capacity in about 2003. Transferring from Rosslyn now is a pain. Adding a location with a million more people to that teensy chokepoint is worse.
3. Fort Belvoir is about to get many more new workers as a result of BRAC. There's no expansion down there yet.
4. The current Metro system is wheezing along (which Metro's spending hasn't helped). Cars run every twenty minutes on the weekend, and two lines usually have delays. All that money could fix these problems.
5. No sane person is going to go to Metro, wait for fifteen minutes for a train, and endure a commute of forty-five minutes to get downtown after a six-hour flight from London.
Summary - some developers who hold the land rights next to the stations will be able to build expensive condos or apartments and include the phrase "Walk to Metro!" in their ads.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Dec 4, 2008 13:58:36 GMT -5
5. No sane person is going to go to Metro, wait for fifteen minutes for a train, and endure a commute of forty-five minutes to get downtown after a six-hour flight from London. Count me insane then, because I remember sitting at Dulles last year after a flight from London wishing I could just hop straight onto the Metro instead of having to take an expensive bus to the Orange Line. The Silver Line will be a very welcome addition, but as others have noted it's not enough. Metro needs some major investment to bring it up to spec.
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Post by strummer8526 on Dec 4, 2008 14:07:44 GMT -5
This is great to hear. I used to work in Tyson's and 66 was a bitch everyday. Hopefully now they can build that tunnel between Metro Center and Chinatown. What tunnel other than the Red Line? Is there something else being discussed in this area?
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Dec 4, 2008 14:15:10 GMT -5
It is an awful, awful idea. 1. Tyson's isn't designed for public transit. People hate buses, which don't run that often and which get stuck in traffic, so any idea of "nodes" won't work, either. Hence the complete redesign and rebuilding of Tyson's into a dense city. Did you miss this? Agreed. But I see this as a reason to build a new downtown line, not a reason to not build the silver line. Frankly, this is the military's fault. There were other, transit-accessible options. I'm sorry, but the federal government (at least in it's current incarnation) wasn't going to direct big project money to maintenance. The best hope for this is the dedicated funding provided by the Wolf-Norton bill, which should pass next Congress. As opposed to a $80 cab ride? A Supershuttle that constantly gets lost? Or a bus that comes only every hour? What other options are we talking about here? Because if everyone doesn't have a giant yard and driveway, then the terrorists have won.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Dec 4, 2008 14:15:39 GMT -5
I have taken Metro regularly for nearly 8 years in my current job, and pretty regularly for several years before that in previous jobs. Very recently, I simply got fed up. The additional money it costs me to park near the Capitol is well, WELL worth it in order to avoid the inconveniences I've endured on Metro...inconveniences that have only gotten exponentially worse over the last three years. I am encouraged that Metro is finding funding for these system infrastructure expansions, all of which are at least 10 years overdue. This Silver line is not NEARLY enough, but it is good as a starting point. (Then again, WMATA can't even get 8-car trains to run properly, or often enough, so I am not all that confident about this new project.) I will agree with exorcist on one issue at least....there is no WAY I will take Metro to and from Dulles when I fly out of there. Actually, I agree with exorcist on a number of his points, just not the overall one that this is a bad idea. But he is right that this won't do that much to alleviate the nightmare that is Tyson's Corner. If Metro gets better in the next few years, I will happily return to public transportation (assuming I still live where I do now). But for now, I am a driver and much happier and less stressed for it (and I never thought I'd say those words together). Edit to Bando: I sure hope you meant round trip. Because if not, you are getting fleeced. A cab ride to Dulles should be no more than about $40 from pretty much anywhere in Arlington. And yes, sometimes it is worth it. (like when you have an 8 a.m. flight and you didn't get to bed until 3 a.m.)
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Dec 4, 2008 14:18:21 GMT -5
This is great to hear. I used to work in Tyson's and 66 was a bitch everyday. Hopefully now they can build that tunnel between Metro Center and Chinatown. What tunnel other than the Red Line? Is there something else being discussed in this area? Yes, an underground moving walkway, so people don't go one stop on the red line just to transfer. A similar walkway has been proposed for Farrugut North-Farragut West. Sooner, though, we'll probably be able to transfer between these stations without any infrastructure upgrades. You'll walk outside from Farragut W. to Farragut N. and your SmarTrip will remember where you were and not charge you as you enter the new station.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Dec 4, 2008 14:27:08 GMT -5
I used the bus to and from Dulles hundreds of times my trips back and forth between DC-SF over the years. I never ran into any real trouble using it, but it was a stark contrast to the ease at which I could get to SFO on MUNI or National on Metro.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Dec 4, 2008 15:50:19 GMT -5
I have taken Metro regularly for nearly 8 years in my current job, and pretty regularly for several years before that in previous jobs. Very recently, I simply got fed up. The additional money it costs me to park near the Capitol is well, WELL worth it in order to avoid the inconveniences I've endured on Metro...inconveniences that have only gotten exponentially worse over the last three years. I am encouraged that Metro is finding funding for these system infrastructure expansions, all of which are at least 10 years overdue. This Silver line is not NEARLY enough, but it is good as a starting point. (Then again, WMATA can't even get 8-car trains to run properly, or often enough, so I am not all that confident about this new project.) I will agree with exorcist on one issue at least....there is no WAY I will take Metro to and from Dulles when I fly out of there. Actually, I agree with exorcist on a number of his points, just not the overall one that this is a bad idea. But he is right that this won't do that much to alleviate the nightmare that is Tyson's Corner. If Metro gets better in the next few years, I will happily return to public transportation (assuming I still live where I do now). But for now, I am a driver and much happier and less stressed for it (and I never thought I'd say those words together). Edit to Bando: I sure hope you meant round trip. Because if not, you are getting fleeced. A cab ride to Dulles should be no more than about $40 from pretty much anywhere in Arlington. And yes, sometimes it is worth it. (like when you have an 8 a.m. flight and you didn't get to bed until 3 a.m.) Some of don't live in Arlington, Boz. But your right, a cab from DC to Dulles is probably only 50-60 bucks. I still think my point stands.
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Dec 4, 2008 16:56:42 GMT -5
if metro was a private enterprise there would be no problems and it would provide much better service [runs and ducks for cover]
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Dec 4, 2008 17:00:15 GMT -5
5. No sane person is going to go to Metro, wait for fifteen minutes for a train, and endure a commute of forty-five minutes to get downtown after a six-hour flight from London. When I travel in the other direction, I just use the teleporter to get myself from: Heathrow/Gatwick to London Schipol to Amsterdam Frankfurt am Main to Frankfurt Charles De Gaulle to Paris Europeans really hate trains. I'm sure they'll just cab it from Dulles.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Dec 4, 2008 17:06:28 GMT -5
A few responses to Bando:
1. Yes, the plan is to make Tyson's a dense city. I'll believe it when I see it.
2. If we build the silver line before we build the downtown line, there will be problems. Big problems.
3. Yes, it's the military's fault, but the military's going to do it. And you'll have lots of people on Route 1 yelling at each other. It will be a Grade A mess.
4. It's a $60 cab ride to Pentagon City. Most business travelers will take a cab. And it's strange, because another option exists already, which is the bus from either Rosslyn or West Falls Church. But no one considers that option, because it's not a rail car.
5. Don't pull the "big lawn and driveway" line on me.
I have never owned a car. I used to live in Fairfax County, where Metro was a giant fail in getting anywhere, and where commutes for work were usually tortuous. And that was a thirty minute ride on one line.
The Silver Line will be worse. Everyone who lives in one of those apartments will have a car, because you can't rely on public transit to get you to and from the city, especially on the weekend. So you'll essentially just raise density when it can't be supported.
The Washington area desperately needs an improved public transit system (note that this doesn't mean just money). Until then, adding the Silver Line is making a bad system worse.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Dec 4, 2008 17:21:30 GMT -5
5. No sane person is going to go to Metro, wait for fifteen minutes for a train, and endure a commute of forty-five minutes to get downtown after a six-hour flight from London. When I travel in the other direction, I just use the teleporter to get myself from: Heathrow/Gatwick to London Schipol to Amsterdam Frankfurt am Main to Frankfurt Charles De Gaulle to Paris Europeans really hate trains. I'm sure they'll just cab it from Dulles. We had this discussion six weeks ago, right? I've traveled to London for business. I take the Heathrow Express if it's anywhere close to rush hour. It takes twenty minutes and zips me into Paddington. As mentioned, it costs more. Metro trains have to stop at every destination. Going from Vienna to Farragut West (a straight shot on the western edge of the city with no switching), according to Metro, takes twenty-eight minutes. Add four or five stations and forty minutes is a reasonable expectation (and that's with no waiting). No one is going to take that if they can.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 4, 2008 17:58:33 GMT -5
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Dec 4, 2008 19:40:15 GMT -5
We had this discussion six weeks ago, right? I've traveled to London for business. I take the Heathrow Express if it's anywhere close to rush hour. It takes twenty minutes and zips me into Paddington. As mentioned, it costs more. Metro trains have to stop at every destination. Going from Vienna to Farragut West (a straight shot on the western edge of the city with no switching), according to Metro, takes twenty-eight minutes. Add four or five stations and forty minutes is a reasonable expectation (and that's with no waiting). No one is going to take that if they can. Where is an express train from Dulles to DC prohibited? CDG is on the RER line and there's no problem w/ express trains there. Same (obviously) goes for London. Ever taken the train from SFO into the city? I'm guessing that's about what it would be like to take Metro into Dulles. It will be a longish trip, but it will be a fraction of the cost of a cab ride (not everyone travels on an expense account). I can't find the six week old discussion. Link?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Dec 4, 2008 19:59:35 GMT -5
It's not bad but it still doesn't address the huge population growth in and increased transit needs of Arlington, Fairfax, Loudoun and Prince William counties. (How the hell to you think Obama won this damn state after all?? ) Don't get me wrong, I don't expect Metro to extend all the way out that far, but expansion of the branches in that direction can help to meet some of the increased ridership from Virginia, which, as I mentioned before WMATA is about 10 years behind the curve in addressing. Basically, the Orange and Blue lines need to be separated, in addition to adding the Silver line. Just a couple of first steps. (I don't mean to talk about Virginia only, at the expense of Maryland, I just don't know as much about the Maryland demographics.)
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 4, 2008 20:34:53 GMT -5
I've traveled to London for business. I take the Heathrow Express if it's anywhere close to rush hour. It takes twenty minutes and zips me into Paddington. As mentioned, it costs more. It's a great option, but it's also a giant rip-off. You save, what, maybe half an hour, and you're paying something like 28 pounds for the Heathrow Express vs. 12 pounds for the local? I can see justifying it if you're in a rush, but that's a lot of money to be shelling out for saving a half an hour. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the Boston system where you pay the same thing for a local commuter train vs. an express.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Dec 4, 2008 22:19:13 GMT -5
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