RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Jan 13, 2009 12:37:27 GMT -5
To add, Vinson was basically considered a "4 who will try to transition to the wing at the next level", not unlike Armwood, Ed Davis and several other guys we've recruited. I definitely don't think TV is a shooting guard or even close. In college he'll be a combo forward and play the 3 and the 4, just like DaJuan--only a few inches shorter.
IMHO, and I could be wrong, but I think the opinion of SF and others is probably affected a little bit by the 2010 recruits. If you think we are a shoe-in to land Smith and/or Kendrick in 2010, then yea bringing in Vinson as a stop gap for one year doesn't make sense. But, there's still a real chance that that doesn't happen. It could potentially turn into the age old "bird in the hand" question that a lot of teams face every year--if it wasn't that all along.
Basically I don't have an opinion on it but I think we've got to at least consider him, and JTIII can make a decision based on what he knows of Greg and DaJuans intentions and also how he feels about his chances with other players both in 09 and '10.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Jan 13, 2009 13:18:21 GMT -5
Can Vinson really play the 4? Seems like he's close to 6'5" and isn't particularly beefy.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Jan 13, 2009 13:35:26 GMT -5
But where is that big for '09? Other than Kryl, I don't see any. Next would be a PF, which would be Latavious, Marmold or Vinson. Another handler would be nice since Jesse is gone. That's where Tahj would come in. I guess we will see. Its funny, but conversations regarding marginal players and who's good or isn't good enough hasn't been an issue since Esh. Only, those type of players were already on the team!
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Post by gtowndynasty on Jan 13, 2009 13:38:47 GMT -5
RBHoya you have just hit the nail on the head. It is what I was trying to say earlier, but may not have been particularly effective at articulating it. I think we have to operate from the premise that guys who can go, will go. There are not many players who will walk away from the lottery. My uncle is an asst coach for the Hornets and he has assured me that scouts around the league are very high on GM and that he will AT LEAST be a lottery pick if he was to come out. I root for the Hoyas as hard as the next man, but lets not be ridiculously naive! He is a smart kid and kids come to college to land good jobs. Let us just say that he has an amazing offer on the table at season's end and not many of us would turn it down! IF he comes back, GREAT! All we have done at that point is increase our depth!
Sapp is gone for sure.
Summers has been wanting to get out and we all know that so if he continues to play well and becomes a first round lock, he is gone.
We NEED to get players in. TV is not 6'5". He is a SF/PF. I agree we need big men, but in reality there arent many out there. Perhaps if DR was worried about playing time, then with the probable defection of GM, he may reconsider his decommittment, but that is a best case scenario. We should still be on him IMHO if all it was about was playing time.
I think people set lofty expectations when they say that Wattad/Nikita will be ready to be big time contributors in a year. Im not saying they wont be, but they havent proven it to this point and they have been in the system for 2 years so I would not necessarily count on that. We have a chance to land a guy that was heavily recruited and can contribute early and I dont think we should squander that especially with our presumable lack of depth next yr.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 13, 2009 13:55:37 GMT -5
Some quick thoughts: - Scout and Rivals are not credible as indicators of offers.
It is against NCAA rules for a coach to comment on a player before the player signs an LOI.
That means most staffs will not comment on who has an offer unless they really feel like being nice for no good reason... so guess where all the information regarding offers comes from?
That's right. The player.
Do you really think if Vinson had an offer from Duke and all the rest, he ends up at LMU? C'mon!
Second thing is, most "offers" aren't formal offers -- they are often very contingent. There's a huge difference between "we'd like you to come and play at GU" and "Here's a signed document for commitment of financial aid."
- We, as a fanbase, would probably be safest assuming Summers and Monroe jump.
I'm suspecting that Thompson has a slightly more informed outlook.
That's not to say we can't argue it. But if you're wondering why maybe something like this doesn't happen, one reason may be that people you think might jump might not. Or that there is another more favorable or certain option.
- Are we really short on players? Yes, if everyone jumps we will be down to eight scholarship players next year. That's not even enough to scrimmage. So we'll probably see someone come in if everyone jumps.
- What's our scholarship situation for '10 and '11? Right now we have five obstenstibly open for 2010 (with two of those taken) and then four more in 2011, assuming Greg doesn't stay until his junior year. That's probably more than we need, so another scholly out isn't bad.
- Vinson's position couldn't be much less of a need unless he was a 2 guard.
- I've seen a lot of people saying Vinson is 6'5". What makes you so sure he isn't?
- These are the situations where I think Vinson makes sense:
1. He's as good or better than Hollis short and long term.
2. He can contribute immediately in 2009 at a significantly higher level than who is currently on the roster/other options out there -- and he is willing to possibly be a backup for much of his career.
3. If both players leave and he's the best fit of the warm bodies.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 13, 2009 14:02:02 GMT -5
The other thing is...
At the 1-3, I'm fine with a four man rotation of Chris, Austin, Hollis and Jason. With Omar adding some extra depth. It's an issue if we get an injury, but that's solid.
The issue is down low where we could only have two players ready to play.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Jan 13, 2009 14:03:25 GMT -5
Only thin Omar and Nikita have over TV at this point is familiarity with the system, staff, players. Talent advantage goes to TV already.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Jan 13, 2009 14:03:41 GMT -5
Btw, nice post SF.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 13, 2009 14:10:39 GMT -5
Only thin Omar and Nikita have over TV at this point is familiarity with the system, staff, players. Talent advantage goes to TV already. Thanks. I figured, but I have no clue. (And thanks for the compliment on the post). I don't want it to sound like I'm against Vinson. I have no clue. I know he's a good player. I just object to the "we need any warm body" strategy. Practically, it tends to lead to a team grabbing a player who can't contribute in games, then transfers, because they want to play but chose over their head. Which we need no more of... I'm not saying TV can't contribute. I just don't like the reasoning behind some of the arguments.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 13, 2009 14:57:17 GMT -5
I think Vinson could contribute next year if Greg and DaJuan leave. He is a 3/4. But my impression is he really wanted to be a Hoya and we either turned him away outright, or told him he was going to be a career backup. At that point he opted for LMU.
Everyone was surprised he would go so far for that option... but he loved Bayno. Without Bayno, he will most likely be back East.... (Strictly conjecture on my part from reading lots of info on Terrell.)
Given our current and likely future situation, he would be a good kid to have on the team. Whether or not we can rekindle after not embracing him earlier, who knows.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 13, 2009 15:47:08 GMT -5
yeah i was under the impression he would be able to play 3 and 4 for us. I assumed worst case scenario that we'd have 1/2 Chris/Jason 2/3 austin/Omar 3/4Hollis/Nikita 4/5 Henry/Julian I figured Vinson would slide behing Hollis as 3/4. And in that scenario it seems like a good pick up.
Of course if we have 4/5 Greg and 3/4 Summers back there's less of a need.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Jan 13, 2009 15:52:57 GMT -5
if greg and dajuan jump, we'll have a great team for the 6'5" and under league ;D
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 13, 2009 16:44:45 GMT -5
When is the next signing period?
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 14, 2009 2:44:25 GMT -5
When is the next signing period? Late April
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 14, 2009 2:44:47 GMT -5
But kids can commit verbally anytime, as I am sure you are aware.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 14, 2009 10:14:22 GMT -5
Yes. But, as we know, a verbal is as good as the kid who gives it.
The staff has plenty of time to analyze what's out there, what we need (considering possible early departures) vs. 2010 & 2011 recruits. I feel Monroe and DS will sit down and discuss their plans with JT3. No hidden agendas...
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Jan 14, 2009 13:13:16 GMT -5
I think DS goes and GM stays. No inside info. just my opinion.
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Post by 1984alloveragain on Jan 14, 2009 14:15:12 GMT -5
Can I AT LEAST DREAM of DS and GM making the same type of pact to come back for one more year to try to win it all - like the Florida guys did when they repeated? Going for that one final go around doesn't seem to have affected any of them negatively, and they have another NCAA Championship and all the incredible memories of that ONE EXTRA YEAR that is Priceless.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 14, 2009 14:20:12 GMT -5
One thing's for sure, they're seeing what the future holds with Hollis coming in early.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Jan 15, 2009 19:31:43 GMT -5
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