BC POST-Game Discussion Thread

[HoyaFanNY]

not a good game to watch. even playing miserably, we had numerous possessions in the 2nd half down 5 or 6, but we could not break through. down 6, a 3 by tyler rims out. next possession, he missed a layup (although a great game and effort by tyler). a couple of times down 5, jeff turned it over. another time he threw up a wild shot. good job defensively. rebounding was good, but they got a couple offensive boards in the 2nd half that killed us. jeff seemed lost. horrible turnovers and bad decisions with the ball at times. sam with roy.

cudos to brandon and tyler stepping up the 2nd half to keep us in the game. smith is a beast. our lack of depth hurt us tonight. when the starters struggled, we didn't have anyone to come in and score. owens, IMO, is useless if he's just standing around. wallace was invisible. reed tried to take the ball to the hoop, but he's just not very good.

overall, a good effort, just very little results offensively. we did not quit and we made some adjustments in the 2nd half. those empty possessions down 5 killed us, as did BC getting offensive boards in the 2nd half.

let's get this one out of our system and beat the hall wednesday!!!

[757hoyafan]

hoyainspirit said:

Since not much was clicking, Crawford got some run. That was good to see. Though, according to Rich, TEXThe missed some bunniesTEXT, overall he had a good game. Positive minutes from Crawford improves our depth and bodes well for next year.

What did his defense look like, for those who saw the game.

I can only remember that happening once. we needed that bucket. if I recall, BC had us by 6 or 8 pts @ the time.

[DanMcQ]

Back from the game - some observations.

Ugly first half offensively. Barker Davis was right, at least on this night - the offense flowed better without Hibbert in there. I haven't decided exactly why this happened - was the offense that stagnant or was the BC defense that good. It seemed that BC denied the interior cut and pass very well when they were in the zone.

Bowman answered the question in the Post article (linked in the Game Articles thread):

"It seemed like the first half, we were lackadaisical. The second half, we came out and realized what we needed to do, cutting harder and playing harder," Bowman said. "We were more assertive in the second half, more than the first half when we were just out there, going through the motions."

Doornekamp had one of his best games, but was allowed to hammer Hibbert and Green in the post with impunity. Late in the game when Green had to leave with a bloody lip, you could see III asking the ref how that could have happened while after a ticky tack foul was called on a Hoya.

14 first half turnovers didn't help either.

Wallace sat because he was ineffective and Reed, then Crawford, came in and made the offense run better. Crawford, in what I think was his first extended playing time, really impressed me on the offensive end. I thought Reed played a good game - more under control than last year yet providing some much needed quickness at the point.

Don't know who asked, but yes, Craig Smith IS like that whenever he's really into the game AND his teammates get him the ball. He was the offensive killer tonight.

If you had told me the Hoyas would hold BC to 24 points in the first half I would have told you they'd win the game.

"Georgetown sucks" was the most creative cheer the BC students came up with all night. Cameron Crazies they ain't. Nice job by the gaggle of GU students behind them to reply with "Safety school."

This is the kind of road game you're going to get when you rely heavily on three freshmen to start. Agree the AKD did a nice job on the boards but he was an offensive liability.

The refereeing crew was pathetic all around. They allowed way too much to go on in the post (Dornekamp raked Hibbert across the face once in full view of all three of them; Hibbert smacked him on another play and nothing gets called). Lots of calls away from the play or not affecting the play breaking up the game's rhythm. Also the phantom BC timeout where the ball was rolling over Dudley and BC was awarded possession.

Haven't looked at the stats yet but lack of offensive execution in the first half yielded the ultimate result. Smith had 20, but that would not have killed them if they'd kept it close early.

My 5 year old daughter proudly wore her GU Hoyas cheerleader outfit and told her 5 year old friend Tommy that she was NOT rooting for the Eagles. Victory enough.

Good riddance to Benedict Arnold College. Watch your backs though, because another meeting in the BET might not go so well.

Bright side: The Hoyas looked better than the Kentucky Wildcats did in 1984 in the national semifinal game.


...one last thing: PUHLEEEEEEZE get rid of those hideous black away game unis!!!

[FLHoya]

BuffaloHoya said:

Biggest non-factor: Jeff Green. He looked LOST on offense the first half. One good drive. Some horrible fouls, a five-second call, two travels... looked like a high-school sophmore out there. I love the kid, but he just looked beat.

I'm curious as to whether anyone else noticed what I did tonight--everything Jeff missed tonight, from layups to 3-pointers to FTs, it was all short. Jeff has a tendency to jump into defenders and force shots from too far away from the glass, but usually he evolves during the course of the game to use the length of his arms to get a better angle. None of that tonight--beyond looking completely overmatched on offense, I wonder if he wasn't just completely spent or under the weather (which coincidentally, I am right now).

There was one moment in the first half that said it all for me regarding this game. Jonathan Wallace brought the ball across the time line, and was about 7 feet behind the three point line. He executed a tight defensive spin move, the kind you would use to break heavy pressure from a defender or make a move to the hole. Except nobody was within 3 feet of him, he just twirled for no reason.

It was shocking the extent to which Boston College's defense messed with our heads in the first half. The turnovers, silly mistakes, wild shots...as bad as that is, you can tip your cap to a defense for creating a lot of that. What really bugged me were the number of needlessly tentative plays--things like guys taking unnecessary fakes under the basket in layup situations, pausing scared coming around screens, failing to move to provide an outlet for Roy on offense. When the defense is so in your head you lose confidence in anything you're capable of on offense--yikes.

In truth, I bet if I looked at the tape I have of last year's BET loss to BC, not much would be different. Big 1st half deficit, a Cook three pulls us to a shockingly close margin at about the 10 minute mark, a previously unheralded player breaks out (Causey, Crawford). We've come a long way from that day...but it's not history yet.

[][-][ 0 `/ /-\ 5]

I just realized that Jeff did shoot most things short. His firt freethrow was so short in nearly airballled. Good points FL

[DanMcQ]

FLHoya said:

I'm curious as to whether anyone else noticed what I did tonight--everything Jeff missed tonight, from layups to 3-pointers to FTs, it was all short. Jeff has a tendency to jump into defenders and force shots from too far away from the glass, but usually he evolves during the course of the game to use the length of his arms to get a better angle. None of that tonight--beyond looking completely overmatched on offense, I wonder if he wasn't just completely spent or under the weather (which coincidentally, I am right now).

There was one moment in the first half that said it all for me regarding this game. Jonathan Wallace brought the ball across the time line, and was about 7 feet behind the three point line. He executed a tight defensive spin move, the kind you would use to break heavy pressure from a defender or make a move to the hole. Except nobody was within 3 feet of him, he just twirled for no reason.

It was shocking the extent to which Boston College's defense messed with our heads in the first half. The turnovers, silly mistakes, wild shots...as bad as that is, you can tip your cap to a defense for creating a lot of that. What really bugged me were the number of needlessly tentative plays--things like guys taking unnecessary fakes under the basket in layup situations, pausing scared coming around screens, failing to move to provide an outlet for Roy on offense. When the defense is so in your head you lose confidence in anything you're capable of on offense--yikes.

In truth, I bet if I looked at the tape I have of last year's BET loss to BC, not much would be different. Big 1st half deficit, a Cook three pulls us to a shockingly close margin at about the 10 minute mark, a previously unheralded player breaks out (Causey, Crawford). We've come a long way from that day...but it's not history yet.

Good points.

BC muscled Green inside and outside. They laid the wood to him whenever possible, primarily by Dornekamp but also by Smith. The refs let that stuff go for the most part. There was so little offensive motion in the first half against the BC zone that Green never seemed to get into a good rhythm.

[ceshoya]

We go 15 mnutes without scoring, on the road, against a top 10 team, then close it to 5 pts. in the 2nd half, and ESPN can't even give us a mercy highlight? I mean Jeez, throw us a bone for God sake. I watched the game in a bar here in S. Fla with a much of unbiased fans, and all they could talk about was how G'town overcame their terrible 1st half and came on strong in the 2nd. Oh well, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I honestly don't get how BC is undefeated.

[GUHoya07]

It's still hard to believe that we had such a terrible first half. It's also amazing that we were only down 12 at the half and once we cut it to 40-35 I was sure it would be a tight game at the end.

We really could have beaten this team if we'd had any kind of offensive success in the first half. Dissapointing but we just have to learn from this and get ready for wednesday night, because that game becomes very important in terms of regaining momentum.

[YB]

Well, that was a big disappointment.... but you know what, after laying that huge egg in the first half, they picked it up and made a big comeback. Sort of encouraging. AF1 was great, what can you say. Best part of his performance was how he just mixed it up among the trees.

The reffing was horrific, but I've come to expect that at this point. But for crying out loud, it's not like BC is the 67 Celtics.

Keep in mind though guys.... this is a young team. I sort of felt that they had begun to buy the hype about them.... this is kryptonite for a team like ours. They have to carry a lunchpail mentality to every game, from the getgo, and really try to out tough people until they can consistently outsmart them.

Let's come back together and beat Satan Hell Wednesday!

[HarbinHoya]

I think the game tonight was dissapointing for a number of reasons. The first is that I truly thought we had a good chance at beating this team. I watched their game against Providence and they have a lot of flaws that we could have taken advantage of.
In terms of how this hurts our overall package, I just think this game would have been a good one if we end up having the record to be a bubble team. It makes sense that we have lost our 6 games to probable tourney teams or at least 4 probable tourney teams, but at the same time what does that say about us? A game like tonight is gonna hurt because it is one that got a lot of attention because of bc's record. The poor first half would not have been so bad if I didnt see the fact that we went scoreless for 15 minutes which is unthinkable on ESPN about 500 times.
Its just a shame and hopefully a game this team will remember and go out with a passion these next couple of games. I just cant help but think when it comes down to being on the bubble which is where I think we will be come tourney time, we need to have a real upset in our schedule and I dont see that in the games we have remaining aside from UCONN.
What is worse is that, I think a lot of the poor teams that we will play, ala providence, could end up pulling out an upset against us, so now it makes it even more important that we hold serve against the teams we should beat.
Overall, I am so happy with where this team is this year, I didnt even expect them to be this good, tonight is just a big let down when this is a game I thought we would really be ready for and look good in.
We will see what happens from here on out.

[hoyanick]

Most of us saw the game in some way, and everyone who reads this board has surely read the major story lines: 4 points until late in the 1st for the Hoyas, Jeff's bad game, Wallace neutralized, Bowman OK, Crawford a pleasant surprise, BC still undefeated...

I just have a bunch of random thoughts. I'll post my 2 cents in bullet form:

***I was watching the most annoying game of the season with the most annoying people in Orange County, CA. The bar I went to, devoid of Hoya fans, was filled with the type of sports fan that has no allegiances. Instead, these people just root for however they have money on. About 5 people there had money on BC, and you can imagine the attitude I got when my Hoyas didn't score for 13 minutes. As the buzzer rang and the half ended, I finally had had enough of their talk and laughter, and, regretfully, I promised them that the Hoyas would come back and win. As soon as I said it, I wanted to take it back. Luckily, they were pretty trashed and the extent of their reaction to my indignation was, "Haha, did you hear the guy in the Georgetown shirt?".

***I actually thought that Georgetown was going to help me deliver on my promise. At one point, the Hoyas could have cut the BC lead to about 2. Ray Reed's three rimmed out, and then the Hoyas got the ball back and Crawford missed a lay-up. After that, it was all BC. Definitely the time when Stu Lantz's famous "Mr. Momentum" switched jerseys.

***I think JTIII should stick with Wallace, even though Ray Reed did not play as erratically as he has in the past. Basically, no major adjustments need to be made. We played our game, but we didn't hit shots. This will happen as long as JTII is here at Georgetown - the difference will be whether we will have the depth and talent to be able to sub legitimate basketball players for cold/out of sync players. No, AKD does not count. Where is Sead?! Surely he can hit a shot within the PrinceTown setup?!

***We don't have a game until Wednesday. Jeff Green needs to spend a day relaxing, eating, getting massages, being with a girlfriend, I dunno. But he was definitely tired/weak. Are those 40 minute games catching up with him? Hard to say. Priority #1 for this Georgetown program has to be finding some kind of depth in the frontcourt, either with inhouse talent like Cornelio or Sead, or with recruits.

***Despite the problems that Jeff, Jon, and Roy had tonight, we have to take a step back and think: We have 4 freshmen who have each had outstanding games at some point during the season. That is a great asset to have for the future.

***Go HOYAS! The Seton Hall game will be the last game I will be able to see on TV this year. It sucks but I'm confident the guys will be mad and eager to show MCI that they are a different team than the one that showed up in Boston - save for AF1.

***Hope everything goes ok in Iraq today.

[Rockycat]

I was hopeful about winning against BC, but like other posters on this board, had this game in the loss column when making predictions. It wasn't a blowout, they came back strong in the second half, and it looks like Tyler Crawford might emerge as a threat from the bench. I can't be too hard on a team that has made us come to expect that hard-fought games will work out in our favor.

[Hoya50]

here's my take on the game.

1. roy should never, never , never have the ball outside of the 3 point line. there is no point in him having the ball 25 feet from the basket standing there, looking for someone to take the ball from him. it wastes time and invites turnovers.

2. i like the princetown offense in general, but my beef with it is it seems to hoyas try to force it too much. mix it up with some simpler stuff and i think the offense becomes more effective.

3. can the hoyas ever get bowman in the post? not once did he catch the ball with his back to the basket last night. unacceptable.

4. defensively, the hoyas looked good tonight. i'd like to see the hoyas get another shot at these guys in the be tourney.

[GPHoya]

Progress is never linear. I learned this my junior year after JT II's freshman laden squad posted an impressive win over St. Bonaventure and I travelled up to Alumni Hall expecting the momentum to continue against St. John's. We were blown out and played up and down for that season and two more before the pieces started to come together.

Experience matters. Dornekamp as a senior played a major role in last night's game and relished the opportunity to exploit the freshmen we played. As a freshman, he would have had 4 fouls in 5 minutes with his hand-checking. Now he knows how to get away with it and the refs let him do it. The whole BC team has played together forever and most importantly it plays together. We looked intimidated and our freshmen may be a little worn out. As FL noted, Green did not have his legs under him and freshmen often hit a wall in late January or early February.

Two teams play every game. BC played harder and better defense last night in the first half then they have all season. The offensive execution was lax, but it didn't need to be sharp the way they were playing defense. They bumped us off every cut, doubled off the high post pick (Hibbert never roled and was virtually an additional defender) and completely destroyed our timing and spacing and ultimately any confidence that we brought to the game. It was not all about us. To say that BC is like St. Joe's last year is not my idea of an insult. If BC's team wore our jerseys and had this kind of a season going, we would be ecstatic (as in died and gone to heaven). BC is probably not going to win the national championship or complete the regular season undefeated, but that is a fine and cohesive basketball team. By the way, the dagger Hinnant threw to put BC up 54-41, he ALWAYS makes.

These Thompson's are stubborn, but not stupid. Playing Hibbert up high as he is repeatedly blitzed, benching Bowman everytime he jacks up a quick one, or sitting Owens when he fails to hustle for a rebound is all about sending a long-term message that we are going to do things the coach's way. Players knew never to question JT II even if he didn't embarass them the way Calhoun and Carlesimo do and did. The same is true of JT III. If they didn't play well last night (and they didn't), Coach expects that they "learned" well. The other team may know what we are running, but we are still going to run it so our guys better figure out how to run it better.

The BC crowd was very strong last night in large part because we provoked them. Good for us. To the current students and recent alums, keep at it. Following the Hoyas is best way to keep up with the best friends you make. The basketball brings us together and the team makes us proud when they battle back on an off night against a more experienced and somewhat more talented rival. I will miss the Hoyas visit to Boston, but will keep making the road trips around the Eastern corridor. I wonder how many BC alums will be brought together by those games in Carolina.

[EasyEd]

My two cents:

This is the second time this year the team has been completely embarrased in the first half, the first being the Connecticut game. Still, it was encouraging how III tweaked the lineup and we had a decent second half.

Smith is very good.

We will have trouble in the future with teams that have good big men (Illinois, Connecticut, BC, etc.). We are in a much better position playing a guard-oriented team.

Even though he has been struggling lately, we should stick with Wallace and encourage him to take his shots. He is still one our best 3-point shooters and we need him not to be timid but to put them up. He gives a lot of stability to our offense.

The Big East seems to have almost settled down into the top tier: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Connecticut and, maybe, Villanova. Then there is the lower tier with Rutgers, St. Johns, and Providence. And, a middle tier of Notre Dame, West Virginia, Seton Hall and Georgetown. Though there may be a couple of upsets, we will likely lose most of the games to the upper tier, win most of the games with the lower tier, and have a 50/50 chance in the middle tier.

Our major problem is with interior (big man) defense and our major recruiting need is a good big man.

What made Crawford's showing last night most impressive was, first, his ability to move without the ball and, second, his mixing it up under the basket for rebounds. He brings a new level of energy to the team. I hope to see more of him.

III seems to be continually trying to balance winning now with winning in the future in his use of Roy. Roy is obviously costing us now in the hopes he will develop and be very productive in the future. Jury is still out on the latter.

BC game was but one game so let's not get too down but let's be realistic. We are probably an NIT team.

[sbgorms]

Today was the first time I had gone to a sports bar to see a college basketball game since March 2001 against Maryland, having driven down to Nashville last night to watch the game at Eddie George's Sports Bar since the godforsaken cable company in my city stopped carrying FullCourt. But that's a complaint for another day.

Watched the first half from a booth, and luckily couldn't see to well because otherwise I might have killed myself. Watching it kind of reminded me of the St. John's-NC State game on Dec. 30 (not quite that ugly, but close), where a combination of factors led to the team's worst half of basketball all year: players looking worn out, shots just not falling, lazy & ugly turnovers, giving up easy buckets, poor shot selection. But all those things taken into account, missing 14 straight shots means you're simply having a bad day. It happens. The team fought back, and it's not March yet, so the Hoyas will live to fight another day, or month in this case.

Others have covered more angles better than I, so I will just pipe up with a coupla random things that I noticed:

Tyler Crawford could prove to be a valuable presence of the bench if the current trend continues of Wallace being invisible on the court. Wallace will always be a 'quiet 10 points' kind of guy, but is box scores have featured a whole lot of 0's lately, and you need some sort of output from everyone on the court. Crawford brings energy and tanacity, and some of the shots he missed will fall with increased comfort out on the court that comes with PT--that being said, he was 5-8 with 12 points in 16 minutes. Hopefully III remembers him sooner next time things turn South.

Hibbert certainly didn't have a good game, but a couple of his turnovers were definitely not his fault (given the ball in a bad position without an open outlet), but I don't mind having him in the high post. I only wish he was more responsive to rolling down to the low post after dishing, as Cook is the only guy who he is truly going to crowd the lane for--Bowman drives to the hoop too, but with a different style that can actually benefit from a bunch of bodies cloggin the lane. Hibbert is all upside, and the way I see it, any major contributions this year are a plus, but he could develop into a major player: at his size, the grading curve should be completely different than for a guard.

Nachos at Eddie George's bar: I never thought I'd say this, but too big? My wife and I were hungry and diving in, but we maybe made it 2/3rds of the way through, and our main courses mostly sat there as an afterthought. Things like that should come with a warning label.

III's halftime adjustments with this team are huge. Last night we went from 14 first-half turnovers to just one in the second. Even with the ugliness of the first half, I expected things to change substantially after the break and they did, just not enough. I always have confidence that adjustments will be made under JTIII that can completely change the demeanor/direction of the team. It's a nice feeling. No more motiveshional speeches, I guess.

The freshman are worn out...the court time is probably wearing on them at this point, with the number of minutes against strong, quick opponents plus daily practices, the next few games could see Hibbert, Green, Wallace seem a little stagnant. Some guys get past this, others are a half-step slow the rest of the way. Lets hope its the former and not the latter.

Nice seeing Ross back out on the court, despite his Rhese Gibsonesque 5 minutes, 3 fouls line. Hope he's doing okay, as he's a nice guy and has had the worst run of luck over the last 6 years.

Never realized how much I'd miss seeing Georgetown games until I floated to my wife the idea of going to an Austin Peay State game (the closest D-I school). Not well received in your second week of marriage as a fun night out. Georgetown-Temple might be my only college hoops game seen in person this year, isn't that a treat. Oh well.

[DanMcQ]

Have to agree with GPHoya in regards to the experience difference with the two teams last night.

I was encouraged by the amount of coaching going on during the game - things you would not have seen in the past couple of years.

The key will be to see how this young team bounces back from this loss.

I differ with those who blame this mostly on missed shots - until BC inexplicably went from their zone to a man defense late in the first half, the Hoyas' offense was stagnant with no effective cuts off the ball.

As for Hinnant, I agree he makes those daggers with regularity, but that is the first one I have seen from him this year.

[DallasHoya]

Have to agree with the post about Wallace's spin move move with nobody within ten feet of him. I thought I was seeing things - my reaction was "what the f___ did he just do?"

Dana Barros' commentary made Reggie Williams sound well-spoken in his post-1984 championship game interview.

One thing we ought to be worried about. If I'm coaching against GU, I back off from Hibbert and Green when they have their backs to the basket with the ball 25+ feet from the hoop. They're not going to shoot, and they can't pass if the wings are covered. What's GU's response?

[Big Dog]

Between our loss and Pitt win last night, where is our RPI now? Somebody always posts about a site that updates it every day, but I can never remember what the site is.

Hard game to watch last night. Man was it ugly. But there things are going to happen to a young team. We've got great opportunities to win over these next 5 games. Let's do our best and see where we come out going into the Nova game.

[SFHoya99]

I put this in another thread, but 14 turnovers in the first half was the kicker. Everyone shoots poorly, but turnovers are a real problem.

BC pressured us on the perimeter (something we haven't seen since Temple) and the team didn't react well until halfway through the second half. Hopefully we're better prepared next time.