HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 29, 2008 12:51:16 GMT -5
Liberal Democrats and Conservative Republicans have teamed up to kill the proposed bailout in the House. Didn't John McCain go to the debate on the premise that negotiations had progressed to his liking? So what happens now? Will McCain suspend his campaign again? More importantly- what happens to our economy?
Oh yeah.. the Dow PLUNGED as the vote started to point towards failure.
The chair is keeping the vote open- but the votes are not changing. It will be interesting to see how long the vote is left open. There's going to be a lot of arm-twisting. I guess the one redeeming aspect of this extended vote is that it is not taking place at 2am as the Medicare Prescription Drug bill did.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Sept 29, 2008 12:58:14 GMT -5
Liberal Democrats and Conservative Republicans have teamed up to kill the proposed bailout in the House. Didn't John McCain go to the debate on the premise that negotiations had progressed to his liking? So what happens now? Will McCain suspend his campaign again? More importantly- what happens to our economy? Oh yeah.. the Dow PLUNGED as the vote started to point towards failure. As Yogi said, it ain't over till it's over. They're not closing this vote until they have the 217 votes they need.
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 29, 2008 13:01:14 GMT -5
As Yogi said, it ain't over till it's over. They're not closing this vote until they have the 217 votes they need. How long do you think it will take and how many points will the Dow have to drop to help change votes? Do you think the two are related?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Sept 29, 2008 13:04:46 GMT -5
As Yogi said, it ain't over till it's over. They're not closing this vote until they have the 217 votes they need. How long do you think it will take and how many points will the Dow have to drop to help change votes? Do you think the two are related? Well, they don't exactly have a stock ticker on the House floor. The question is really more about how effective Pelosi, Hoyer, Boehner and Blunt are at welding tire irons, because there is pretty much no other way to get this done.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Sept 29, 2008 13:06:57 GMT -5
How long do you think it will take and how many points will the Dow have to drop to help change votes? Do you think the two are related? Well, they don't exactly have a stock ticker on the House floor. The question is really more about how effective Pelosi, Hoyer, Boehner and Blunt are at welding tire irons, because there is pretty much no other way to get this done. Apparently, they aren't very good with a tire iron.
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 29, 2008 13:29:15 GMT -5
This is BIG problem for the House and Senate. It will take a lot of arm twisting for the House to bring this back onto the floor for another vote (it will DEFINITELY take place after the markets close if it does happen). Unless the House and Senate decide to stay in session during Rosh Hashanah (which from my recollection they never do), there will be no vote again until Thursday.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 29, 2008 13:30:30 GMT -5
Paging Pushy Guy Fan Club, Pushy Guy Fan Club to the white courtesy phone...
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 29, 2008 13:38:34 GMT -5
If I'm the Democratic leadership, I would put forward a plan that would attract the "Nay" votes from left- realizing that the majority can get a bill through without House Republicans. The Senate can always amend the bill to eliminate the things that the Republicans object to. I think the "Nay" Democrat voters would be more likely to vote "Yea" on a conference report that looks like this than an actual bill. I think that such a technique may be necessary since Eric Cantor and Roy Blunt are fiercely blaming a speech by Speaker Pelosi for changing the minds of their party members. Mind you, a speech that had no bearing on the content of the bill. It is also clear that the White House can no longer deliver the votes of its own party.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Sept 29, 2008 13:53:38 GMT -5
If I'm the Democratic leadership, I would put forward a plan that would attract the "Nay" votes from left- realizing that the majority can get a bill through without House Republicans. The Senate can always amend the bill to eliminate the things that the Republicans object to. I think the "Nay" Democrat voters would be more likely to vote "Yea" on a conference report that looks like this than an actual bill. I think that such a technique may be necessary since Eric Cantor and Roy Blunt are fiercely blaming a speech by Speaker Pelosi for changing the minds of their party members. Mind you, a speech that had no bearing on the content of the bill. It is also clear that the White House can no longer deliver the votes of its own party. Pelosi deserves a decent amount of blame for this. You don't bring a bill to the floor, especially with the eyes of the world on it, without the ability to pass it. Though to be fair, coming out and railing on Pelosi accomplished nothing except make it a whole lot harder to come to a new agreement
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Post by williambraskyiii on Sept 29, 2008 14:01:41 GMT -5
shocker! a lame duck president with negative approval numbers doesn't hold that much sway...what an unexpected development!
In that same vein, apparently the Messiah also doesn't possess such powers of persuasion within his own party...his stamp of approval did very little to get the liberal dems in line...
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 29, 2008 14:02:16 GMT -5
Though to be fair, coming out and railing on Pelosi accomplished nothing except make it a whole lot harder to come to a new agreement That's why I think the Dems will have to go it alone to get it through the House. The Senate seems ready to pass this easily.
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 29, 2008 14:05:28 GMT -5
If I'm the Democratic leadership, I would put forward a plan that would attract the "Nay" votes from left- realizing that the majority can get a bill through without House Republicans. The Senate can always amend the bill to eliminate the things that the Republicans object to. I think the "Nay" Democrat voters would be more likely to vote "Yea" on a conference report that looks like this than an actual bill. I think that such a technique may be necessary since Eric Cantor and Roy Blunt are fiercely blaming a speech by Speaker Pelosi for changing the minds of their party members. Mind you, a speech that had no bearing on the content of the bill. It is also clear that the White House can no longer deliver the votes of its own party. Pelosi deserves a decent amount of blame for this. You don't bring a bill to the floor, especially with the eyes of the world on it, without the ability to pass it. Though to be fair, coming out and railing on Pelosi accomplished nothing except make it a whole lot harder to come to a new agreement She's not the one who's going to get blamed for this though. I have to wonder what the House Republicans are thinking. Their move today only guarantees that the Democrats will create a more leftward bill tomorrow that will shore up their dissenters and pass on a party line vote. Then they will dare Bush to veto it. If tomorrow's Democratic bill passes both houses, Bush is left with a terrible choice, politically. If the Dems pass a bill, any bill, tomorrow, stocks are immediately going to go up. He can either sign a bailout bill that his party will get no credit for, or veto it and completely doom the GOP chances at every level in November. Moreso than the Republicans in general, the big loser in all this is John McCain.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 29, 2008 14:23:29 GMT -5
The Democrats control the House. The vote failed. Who's to blame?
BTW, hooray!
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 29, 2008 14:28:11 GMT -5
I think in Bando's scenario Bush passes the Dem's bill without hesitation. This last six months is all about helping his friends (Wall Street, oil companies) - not his party.
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 29, 2008 14:44:10 GMT -5
The Democrats control the House. The vote failed. Who's to blame? BTW, hooray! You're right ed.. they are to blame. They're to blame for trying to include Republicans in the process to pass a bipartisan bill- only to be let down by gutless Republicans. The message to Democratic leaders is clear- you can't trust House Republicans for anything.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Sept 29, 2008 14:45:29 GMT -5
The Democrats control the House. The vote failed. Who's to blame? BTW, hooray! The package, which was backed by both the Democratic and Republican congressional leadership as well as President Bush, failed in the House by a vote of 228-205.
A majority of Democrats voted for the bill. A majority of Republicans voted against it.
After the vote, a White House spokesman said President Bush was "very disappointed" that the House failed to pass the bailout.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 29, 2008 14:47:16 GMT -5
The Democrats control the House. The vote failed. Who's to blame? BTW, hooray! You're right ed.. they are to blame. They're to blame for trying to include Republicans in the process to pass a bipartisan bill- only to be let down by gutless Republicans. The message to Democratic leaders is clear- you can't trust House Republicans for anything. I'm sorry. Didn't (approx.) 90 Dems also vote against the bill?
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 29, 2008 14:53:43 GMT -5
I'm sorry. Didn't (approx.) 90 Dems also vote against the bill? My rep was one of them. I've been trying to write him a thank you note but the house.gov server has been down all afternoon.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 29, 2008 15:00:14 GMT -5
I can think of about 565 people who can all share some blame for this. More if you add in the administration & agency leaders.
But Bando's right, sorry to say. McCain has left himself one -- and only one -- out. He has to go back to Washington now. He can't not go. I don't care if everyone and their mother calls it a stunt, it's the play he has to make. If he doesn't, you might as well have the election today & get it over with. He doesn't have to supend his campaign, but he has to be there. Palin, ads & surrogates can camapign for the next week or so.
On the flip side, I don't see how this episode demonstrates Obama's leadership qualities, but that's just me and it ignores the political realities of the situation. McCain placed himself at the center of this and now he has to go back and see it through. Obama didn't and though I might fault him for that, he is relatively unscathed politically as a result.
Can I ask an honest question though? For the Democrats/liberals on this board, do you really like Pelosi and Reid? I don't mean do you agree with their political philosophy, but do you really like them as your leaders in government? I promise I'm not trying to be snarky, but I just can't see anyone really supporting those two, regardless of whether you agree with them on policy or not.
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 29, 2008 15:01:39 GMT -5
I'm sorry. Didn't (approx.) 90 Dems also vote against the bill? If the Dems wanted to, they could have made the bill sweeter for these 90 voters. Instead, they reached across the aisle expecting to get what Rep. Boehner promised- 50% of the Republican members. The Dems delivered over 60%.
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