Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 30, 2008 9:10:39 GMT -5
True, though the side column in the Post this morning seemed to suggest (at least to me) that Boehner REALLY misjudged his votes but chose not to pass that information on to Pelosi. "Boehner and House Minority Whip Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), recognizing the danger of the situation, discussed whether to urge Democrats to pull the bill from the floor rather than have it go down in defeat. Instead, less than three hours later, the gavel fell on a stunning rebuke to Capitol Hill leaders on both sides of the aisle. " has Jim Clyburn on record -- as of Sunday night -- saying that they had not even started whipping the vote yet. And at least one Dem Congressman, Pete DeFazio, has said they were NEVER whipped. So, basically, Nancy Pelosi brought this to a vote on Monday not knowing at all how many votes she would get out of her own caucus. With this lack of knowledge at her fingertips, she saw fit to lambaste the Republicans. I am not excusing any Republicans who may have changed their vote because of her speech, that's weak and worthless, but if you don't even know who in your own party is going to vote with you, maybe you shouldn't Edited off the other side, yeah? And there is ample evidence that she let people off the hook on this vote, including five Committee chairs. If she isn't going to ask demand that they vote for this, then why the hell should anybody vote for it? You know that "incompetent" label we've been applying to the Bush administration? Yeah, I think it's time Nancy started getting hit with that label. |
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hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Sept 30, 2008 9:23:04 GMT -5
True, though the side column in the Post this morning seemed to suggest (at least to me) that Boehner REALLY misjudged his votes but chose not to pass that information on to Pelosi. "Boehner and House Minority Whip Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), recognizing the danger of the situation, discussed whether to urge Democrats to pull the bill from the floor rather than have it go down in defeat. Instead, less than three hours later, the gavel fell on a stunning rebuke to Capitol Hill leaders on both sides of the aisle. " has Jim Clyburn on record -- as of Sunday night -- saying that they had not even started whipping the vote yet. And at least one Dem Congressman, Pete DeFazio, has said they were NEVER whipped. So, basically, Nancy Pelosi brought this to a vote on Monday not knowing at all how many votes she would get out of her own caucus. With this lack of knowledge at her fingertips, she saw fit to lambaste the Republicans. I am not excusing any Republicans who may have changed their vote because of her speech, that's weak and worthless, but if you don't even know who in your own party is going to vote with you, maybe you shouldn't Edited off the other side, yeah? And there is ample evidence that she let people off the hook on this vote, including five Committee chairs. If she isn't going to ask demand that they vote for this, then why the hell should anybody vote for it? You know that "incompetent" label we've been applying to the Bush administration? Yeah, I think it's time Nancy started getting hit with that label. Thanks Boz -- sounds like there was incompetence all around this time! (I wasn't suggesting that Pelosi had done her homework, just noting that the GOP apparently chose not to let the Dems know they weren't to do their part). This whole thing is like a big group project gone horribly wrong. Everyone assumed the other side was going to do all the work, and they met an hour before the thing was due only to realize they were screwed. |
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Post by williambraskyiii on Sept 30, 2008 9:25:52 GMT -5
You know you are in trouble when you have a San Fran lib running the show.
Edited. Keep the personal invective off board, esp. for a Georgetown parent and spouse of an alumnus.--Admin.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 30, 2008 9:50:40 GMT -5
The ironic thing for me is that I'm not even sure I'd want the vote to pass. I know some have come out and cheered that it didn't pass. I'm generally a conservative, so in prinicple, the idea of a government bailout, especially a huge one like this, is not an idea that I like. On the other hand, when so many people come out and say, "look, we know you don't like it, but it has to be done," OK, I'm not a genius on issues like this, so I tend to want to trust them & say do what you have to do. Hell, even Newt Gingrich said he might reluctantly have to support it (though I've heard rumors that he might have quietly been trying to kill it).
I really don't know whether this is good news or bad news. What I do know is that it goes completely to overall government ineptitude. Nothing is beyond politicization. I guess I'm not really surprised, but disappointing hardly begins to describe it. And it Editedes me off that literally no one has shown leadership or courage on this issue.
Let's go down the list, on both sides:
- President Bush, who I have to believe really doesn't understand this problem at all, cowing to whatever Paulson & Bernanke wanted without bringing in a whole frakkin' slew of economists of all stripes to hash out the problem and SEVERAL potential solutions.
- John McCain, who I think wanted to show leadership, but didn't when the chips were down. He really only paid lip service to it, and left Washington for a debate that didn't have to happen when he could have stayed and made sure that something got done, either this deal or an alternative.
- Harry Reid, for first demanding that McCain participate, then when he saw it might be a political advantage to McCain to do so, announcing that he wasn't needed and that a deal was already done, when clearly, there was never any deal. (I think we can all agree now that there never really was any deal, yes?)
- Barack Obama, for not even bothering to seriously weigh in on this or put some of his own political skin in the game. Sitting on the sidelines has been politically advantageous for him, but it's not what I am looking for in a President.
- Barney Frank, for cracking jokes about the Republicans when he should have been pressuring his own party, including 12 people on his committee who voted against it. I won't even go INTO how long Barney Frank has been denying there was even a problem to address.
- John Boehner, basically not participating in negotiations as far as I can tell, and not corralling his own members before they go out and talk nonsense to the press. Among other things, like what 'tables mentioned above. Pure gamesmanship.
- The House Republicans who changed their vote after the speech. I don't mind the ones who objected to this on principle, but I'm sure there were more than a handful who acted like petulant little babies and voted no because Nancy Pelosi was mean to them. Yes, I'm looking at you, Eric Cantor, who I thought might be a future star of the party.
- And the Queen ***** of them all, Madame Speaker, who was clearly playing this on both sides for political gain in November. Yes, more people than just she were doing that, Republican and Democrat alike, but she's Speaker of the House. She craved that position and all of the power it comes with, but refuses to accept the responsibility that comes with that power. Someone should sit her down to watch Spider Man or something.
I'm sure I have left many, many out on both sides, but these people are a bunch of F----ups the last two weeks, and there is no one who should not be blamed, either for not passing this bill if that's what's needed, coming up with something different if this is a bad bill, or leaving the issue alone if it's not really the armageddon they have been trying to make us underestand it is.
I'm not sure which of those three is closest to the truth, but no matter which, everyone has failed.
I'm this close to voting for Bill Cosby, no joke.
(I have modified some of my epithets per DFW's request, but I think you know what I think of the whole lot of them.)
EDIT 2: Don't even get me started on the media.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Sept 30, 2008 10:07:15 GMT -5
This whole thing is like a big group project gone horribly wrong. Everyone assumed the other side was going to do all the work, and they met an hour before the thing was due only to realize they were screwed. Amen to that. I would bet that a fair amount of the nay voters wanted this to pass but did not have the cojones to vote for it, themselves. Well, "the people" or "main street" or whatever you want to call them have their wish, at least for now. They want to see where the chips will fall, and I am sure they will get their chance soon enough. Who knows, maybe the sky won't fall, after all. But I am sure worried that we will be seeing lots of businesses really struggle, and not just the big bad greedy Wall Street crowd that everyone wants to see take the hit. The proponents of the bailout may have had a much easier go of it if they had simply marketed it better. By referring to it as a 'bailout' it then became the "Wall Street bailout" and quickly devolved into this Main Street vs. Wall Street crap that the media ran with, and the candidates sure lapped up, as well. |
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Post by williambraskyiii on Sept 30, 2008 11:02:22 GMT -5
Amen Filo.
Next big scare is runs on cross-border short-term interbank liabilities...Nouriel Roubini who is the Papa Bear of all Bears and essentially predicted a lot of these bank failures, says that foreign banks are freaking out about the security of their money given the illiquidity in the US market right now.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Sept 30, 2008 12:41:14 GMT -5
I would bet that a fair amount of the nay voters wanted this to pass but did not have the cojones to vote for it, themselves. Bingo. |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 30, 2008 12:43:20 GMT -5
The following link is a Rush Limbaugh site, has obvious bias in its content, and probably has taken some things out of context - still, it's actual people talking in 2004 about changing the rules for Fannie and Freddie. Click on the video labeled "2004 Video. Democrats Defend Fannie/Freddie from Regulation". www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.guest.html |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 30, 2008 15:18:20 GMT -5
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 30, 2008 15:34:08 GMT -5
If I hear one more god damn thing about Wall Street and Main Street, I'm going to have to kill someone or something. Bah, I hate it! It's just so damn stupid sounding. It creates a juvenile BS dichotomy that doesn't exist. In a rhetorical flourish in a nice speech, I understand the point. It's talking about the haves and have-nots. But when we're talking about the intricacies of the national and global market, the discussion of what's good for "Main Street" is just not helpful.
Before any of you McCain-iacs point it out, I do acknowledge that it MIGHT have been Barack who first used the Wall versus Main in a speech. Again, in a stump speech, I get the point. But when I hear an economic analyst on CNN say, "And this bill is sure to bring credit to Main Street," I want to throw up.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 30, 2008 15:58:38 GMT -5
It's worth noting that Obama has now said that we have strong long-term fundamentals in our economy.
"After this immediate problem, we've got the long-term fundamentals that will really make sure this economy grows."
The McCain campaign has noticed and is calling him on it in a new ad.
Don't worry, I am still Editeded at both of them right now, McCain for failing to follow through on his commitment, Obama for never showing up.
But since everyone was so quick to throw rocks at McCain last week for daring to say something so clearly crazy and totally off base, I think it's important to note this development on the campaign trail.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Sept 30, 2008 16:42:10 GMT -5
STATEMENT FROM SENATOR JUDD GREGG ON HOUSE VOTE ON MARKET STABILIZATION PLAN September 29, 2008 Contact: Andrea Wuebker/Laena Fallon WASHINGTON - U.S Senator Judd Gregg (R-NH), ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee, and lead negotiator for the Senate Republicans, today issued the following statement on the House vote on the market stabilization plan. Senator Gregg stated, “Obviously this vote has severe ramifications as we’ve already seen a dramatic decline in the markets, which undoubtedly will have significant effects on Main Street and the everyday lives of Americans. This effort to stabilize the markets is not just an exercise in political ideology, but a critical and responsible measure to stave off serious fiscal trouble. It is now time for both sides of the aisle, in both chambers of Congress, to recognize the need to act. We must work together and find a way to advance this necessary legislation so we can begin to restore confidence in our markets, repair our economy, and make sure that American families can feel assured that their savings are secure, and their ability to finance their homes, cars, and children’s education is possible.” Senator Gregg is a responsible Republican who is working across the aisle to solve the problem. It seems as though the Senate is acting in the best interests of the country. |
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Sept 30, 2008 16:42:37 GMT -5
What about all of us who don't live on Wall Street or Main Street? What the heck is going to happen on our streets? And what're they even called? Sesame Street? Easy Street? Jump Street? E Street? Main Street USA? Elm Street? Downing Street?
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 30, 2008 16:52:46 GMT -5
Weekend Update said it best: "Critics of the bailout plan say it will save Wall Street, while it will do virtually nothing to help out Main Street. And, as always, you're on your own Martin Luther King Boulevard."
Personally, I want to know how we're dealing with the hair-cutting industry on Fleet Street.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Sept 30, 2008 17:01:55 GMT -5
What about all of us who don't live on Wall Street or Main Street? What the heck is going to happen on our streets? And what're they even called? Sesame Street? Easy Street? Jump Street? E Street? Main Street USA? Elm Street? Downing Street? That is a very good point. I don't even live on a street! I live on a drive! Who is looking out for me? |
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Sept 30, 2008 17:30:16 GMT -5
It's already happening Brasky. Libor jumped to an alltime high 6.88% and the TED spread hit 3.53 today. For you unfinance guys out there, LIBOR is the rate that banks charge each other for overnight borrowing. The Ted spread is another related measure of liquidity and that's the difference between Libor and the 90 day US T bill. Usually the ted spread is maybe 30 basis points and today it's at 353 basis points. This all means that the banks are scared *#%*@@*$ and that there is zero liquidity in the global financial markets. Not good.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Sept 30, 2008 20:09:00 GMT -5
Forget whose fault this is, I am reminded of James Carville's words -- "When your opponent is drowning, throw the SOB an anvil."
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Sept 30, 2008 20:51:37 GMT -5
What about all of us who don't live on Wall Street or Main Street? What the heck is going to happen on our streets? And what're they even called? Sesame Street? Easy Street? Jump Street? E Street? Main Street USA? Elm Street? Downing Street? I live on E Street - we've got a band - we'll be ok. |
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Oct 1, 2008 2:02:02 GMT -5
What about all of us who don't live on Wall Street or Main Street? What the heck is going to happen on our streets? And what're they even called? Sesame Street? Easy Street? Jump Street? E Street? Main Street USA? Elm Street? Downing Street? I live on E Street - we've got a band - we'll be ok. I live on the Boulevard of Broken Dreams, so this sort of stuff is par for the course. I hear the folks over on Thunder Road aren't doing that great, though. |
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Oct 1, 2008 3:19:01 GMT -5
I live on E Street - we've got a band - we'll be ok. I live on the Boulevard of Broken Dreams, so this sort of stuff is par for the course. I hear the folks over on Thunder Road aren't doing that great, though. Is that anywhere near Lonely St.... you know, where Heartbreak Hotel is? |
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