SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 4, 2008 14:13:29 GMT -5
One more thing -- The example set by senior Patrick Ewing. He gave up his starting job for the sake of the team (rotation, chemistry, energy off the bench, Defense, etc.) Not only did he take to the role willingly and enthusiastically, he got himself drafted at #43 over a whole slew of guys who were starting for other teams. That example is going to help JT3 and staff put together the best team. I have a feeling we'll have six guys getting close to thirty minutes, and two players getting around fifteen in major games. I'm not sure it matters who starts, but I'd expect who plays more will be based on a game by game basis. I actually think Jessie might have the best game to come off the bench -- as he's the most likely skill and personality wise to play sparkplug. But he's also very possibly the team leader and the guy who sets the tone when he steps on the floor.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 4, 2008 14:15:30 GMT -5
I disagree SF.... DaJuan doesn't lose in the quickness battle and he is bigger and stronger than most college 3s. I think he DOES lose in the size and strength battle against the better PFs in the BE. And his mindset -- he seems to be a lot more comfortable on the perimeter and not having to battle for position with big dudes. So yeah, I think he has better size/quickness advantages at the SF and I think his mindset is programmed there too. We'll just keep disagreeing on the quickness thing. Even if you think he's quick enough to keep up with all the threes and 3rd guards (and I didn't say he isn't) I still think he should abuse a guy like Jeff Adrien by taking him outside and blowing past him. But you are right that DaJuan's mentality is on the perimeter -- I'd just like him to start there and finish on the interior instead of taking so many jumpers. I agree more with Saxa on this one. While Summers may be quicker than Jeff Adrien, Adrien would abuse him on the glass. I don't rule out having Summers at the 4 because we will at some point this season, but I think the team would gel more if Monroe is given the "point forward" duty that is so important in our offense, and Summers could play off that, use the space that Monroe creates in the high post to open up his driving game. That being said, our guys need to learn about the need to work inside/out, so I like SF's point there. Your shooting game is going to be much stronger if you get your feet wet in the post/key than if you come out firing from behind the arc.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 4, 2008 14:15:45 GMT -5
But you are right that DaJuan's mentality is on the perimeter -- I'd just like him to start there and finish on the interior instead of taking so many jumpers. I'd like that too, whether he is officially at the 3 of the 4. I'd also like him to drive and pull up for the little jumper from time to time too. Give the defense one more thing to think about.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 4, 2008 14:17:07 GMT -5
My guess is Chris Wright starts too. And I also think Monroe will start.
But nobody gets a job without winning it. Lots of minutes up for grabs this year! And lots of talent to take them.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jul 4, 2008 14:17:22 GMT -5
I would not be surprised at all if we're back to that 7 1/2 rotation JTIII likes to run. Basically, Look at last year's minutes in the Big East and plug in Monroe for Hibbert (I'll give him the nod for now), Vaughn for Ewing, Wright for Wallace, Clark for Rivers, and at 1/2, Sims for Macklin.
Lots of ways that can look on the floor, but this has been pretty much the way the rotation has looked for the regular season titles.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 4, 2008 14:20:49 GMT -5
I would not be surprised at all if we're back to that 7 1/2 rotation JTIII likes to run. Basically, Look at last year's minutes in the Big East and plug in Monroe for Hibbert (I'll give him the nod for now), Vaughn for Ewing, Wright for Wallace, Clark for Rivers, and at 1/2, Sims for Macklin. Lots of ways that can look on the floor, but this has been pretty much the way the rotation has looked for the regular season titles. Good thinking there. I could see the Vaughn/Sims roles reversed, but that is a minor point in the scheme of things. This gives us our "core" group on paper, but I could easily see Nikita competing for minutes and pushing Vaughn and others.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 4, 2008 14:22:21 GMT -5
Jersey - no doubt that having DaJuan at the four hurts us on the boards. Though I think less him versus PFs than having a third guard (in other words the big upgrade isn't Sims or Vaughn versus Summers but Summers versus Austin on the boards).
On pure offense, though, Summers should have an advantage against fours.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 4, 2008 14:51:34 GMT -5
I have a feeling we'll have six guys getting close to thirty minutes, and two players getting around fifteen in major games. I'm not sure it matters who starts, but I'd expect who plays more will be based on a game by game basis. I actually think Jessie might have the best game to come off the bench -- as he's the most likely skill and personality wise to play sparkplug. But he's also very possibly the team leader and the guy who sets the tone when he steps on the floor. I see you point about Jessie, but he'll be a three year starter. And he started for two full years on teams that won 2 BE Conf. Titles 1 BET 1 Final Four appearance. And he adds a calming Senior presence. Could he do it off the bench? Yes. But I just don't think that will happen. Ewing was a senior who agreed to give up his starter's role to be the 6th man, but a senior who got his first starting role that fall, not someone who had been starting most of his career as Sapp has done.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 4, 2008 15:08:39 GMT -5
I would not be surprised at all if we're back to that 7 1/2 rotation JTIII likes to run. Basically, Look at last year's minutes in the Big East and plug in Monroe for Hibbert (I'll give him the nod for now), Vaughn for Ewing, Wright for Wallace, Clark for Rivers, and at 1/2, Sims for Macklin. Lots of ways that can look on the floor, but this has been pretty much the way the rotation has looked for the regular season titles. Disagree. First of all the folks that got run in virtually every game last season were: Hibbert Wallace Sapp Ewing Freeman Summers Rivers Macklin That's eight. And it would have been nine if Wright hadn't gotten injured because III was mixing those nine in regularly before Wright went down. Also Tyler got more minutes last season than he had in previous ones and saw time every other game when BE season was in play. So in my humble opinion III gives at least nine guys regular run this season. All of those who disagree or think this is the wrong way to go I have to ask again: why do you want Gtown to recruit all of these high ranked players only to sit them on the bench for their first season or two? III better not recruit top talent and then expect them to collect dust and rust . There's no point in bringing in so many quality players if he is going to only use 7. And its selfish for Hoya fans to both want the recruit to sign with Gtown and then expect that recruit to get pine time like Josh Thornton or Octavious Spann. Roy Williams plays all of his guys even if they are still in the process of learning to play the way he wants them too. He understands that's the price for bringing in loads of great players if you want to keep them around.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 4, 2008 15:13:33 GMT -5
I think that those who can play up to JTIII's standards get time. Those that don't, don't. I have yet to see a player at GU who I think was deserving of a lot more playing time based on their production. Players like Spann and Thornton got only bench time but when they were in I thought it was apparent that they were clearly not ready to contribute significantly.
On second thought, I suppose Tyler is the one guy who probably played less minutes than he should have. Although his handle often held him back.
My point is, though, overall, I think JTIII has a standard for play. If nine guys meet it, I bet nine guys play. If six meet it, you're going to see six play the majority of minutes and the others only play as much as is needed. I don't know what will happen if twelve guys meet it, but we've yet to have that great problem.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 4, 2008 15:13:47 GMT -5
I see you point about Jessie, but he'll be a three year starter. And he started for two full years on teams that won 2 BE Conf. Titles 1 BET 1 Final Four appearance. And he adds a calming Senior presence. Could he do it off the bench? Yes. But I just don't think that will happen. Ewing was a senior who agreed to give up his starter's role to be the 6th man, but a senior who got his first starting role that fall, not someone who had been starting most of his career as Sapp has done. True. But if you also ask me of these five players (Sapp, Summers, Freeman, Wright and Monroe) which one is the least talented and least gifted I would have to go with Sapp. Hell, in terms of passing I think Wright, Freeman and possibly Monroe are all better than Jesse. That being said I do thing Sapp will be in the starting lineup with Summers playing PF to begin the games.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 4, 2008 15:23:49 GMT -5
I see you point about Jessie, but he'll be a three year starter. And he started for two full years on teams that won 2 BE Conf. Titles 1 BET 1 Final Four appearance. And he adds a calming Senior presence. Could he do it off the bench? Yes. But I just don't think that will happen. Ewing was a senior who agreed to give up his starter's role to be the 6th man, but a senior who got his first starting role that fall, not someone who had been starting most of his career as Sapp has done. True. But if you also ask me of these five players (Sapp, Summers, Freeman, Wright and Monroe) which one is the least talented and least gifted I would have to go with Sapp. Hell, in terms of passing I think Wright, Freeman and possibly Monroe are all better than Jesse. That being said I do thing Sapp will be in the starting lineup with Summers playing PF to begin the games. Let me ask you this MCI. Do you think there's a chance that Freeman comes of the bench? he could come in at the 2 or 3 and, at least in theory, heat it up quickly with is ability to score. Say Wright and Sapp start in the backcourt. and Summers, Monroe, Vaughan start up front. That would give us a LOT more size, great quickness at the point and good size and experience at the 2G. Maybe I just like Seniors. But a senior with the amount of top level experience that Sapp has? I think he starts all year.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 4, 2008 15:25:11 GMT -5
I should add, I do share your belief in your implication that the line-up that starts the first few games, is not necessarily the line-up that will be starting come BE season. Last year, Pat started then sat. One year Tyler started. And Egerson started. But those guys didn't continue to start -- for a variety of reasons.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 4, 2008 15:30:00 GMT -5
The person most hurt by Vaughn's waiver could be Nikita.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Jul 4, 2008 15:38:12 GMT -5
I agree with ed. This is all a very nice problem for III to have. But personally I was really looking forward to seeing some time for Nikita and Omar this year. I don't see it with all this other talent, though. Barring injury of course.
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Buckets
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Post by Buckets on Jul 4, 2008 15:57:25 GMT -5
Barring injury or some obscene amount of progress from Nikita/Omar/Jansen, I don't see any way that we don't go 8 deep. JT III has shown that he'll adjust the rotation based on the talent level off the bench. The bench got about 20% of minutes his first three years, then last year they got almost 30% because we had guys like Pat on the bench.
Also, my starting lineup would be Wright, Freeman, Summers, Monroe, Vaughn, but Pat averaged 6.5 minutes less than Wallace last season - that's the difference between leading the team in minutes and coming off the bench, so I wouldn't be too worried about it regardless. I'm expecting a very similar rotation this year.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jul 4, 2008 16:21:50 GMT -5
True. But if you also ask me of these five players (Sapp, Summers, Freeman, Wright and Monroe) which one is the least talented and least gifted I would have to go with Sapp. Hell, in terms of passing I think Wright, Freeman and possibly Monroe are all better than Jesse. That being said I do thing Sapp will be in the starting lineup with Summers playing PF to begin the games. Let me ask you this MCI. Do you think there's a chance that Freeman comes of the bench? he could come in at the 2 or 3 and, at least in theory, heat it up quickly with is ability to score. Say Wright and Sapp start in the backcourt. and Summers, Monroe, Vaughan start up front. That would give us a LOT more size, great quickness at the point and good size and experience at the 2G. Maybe I just like Seniors. But a senior with the amount of top level experience that Sapp has? I think he starts all year. Agreed. Are we really pulling Jessie's starting job AGAIN? This guy loses his starting job every off-season. Our only senior will start all year. I know it will be tough to give the nod to a guy who only led the team in steals and assists, shot 40%+ from three, and single-handedly gutted us to wins over WVU and 'Cuse but he might be able to fill a role Maybe he's the least-talented starter but that's like being the dumbest professor at MIT with this 5.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Jul 4, 2008 16:31:23 GMT -5
amen to that. we have the best starting five in the conference...bar none
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Jul 4, 2008 16:42:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry, Chris Wright is NOT coming off the bench this season. He, more than any other player on this roster, adds a dimension that no other player has. He's our best ballhandler, our best penetrator, and our point guard, who I think is the second best pg in the Big East behind Price from UConn. He's not coming off the bench, so people need to drop that assumption. He many, in fact, be our most important player. If Vaughn starts, Freeman comes off the bench. However, I think if DaJuan improves his ballhandling enough, he starts at the four with Austin at the three and Monroe at the five. Also, Vaughn isn't starting over Monroe. Greg, even though he has yet to play a college game, is the best big on this team. 6-10, left-handed, with a great skill set. You just don't sit those kind of players. Monroe is the first alpha recruit this program has had in a long time. He's not sitting. Our lineup is now sick, and in my opinion, a final four type of talented team. Wright is one of the best pg's. Sapp is one of the best combo guards in the conference. DaJuan will make the leap and take the challenge to improve because he wants to get to the next level. And now we have the flexibility. As long as this team stays healthy, we have the chance to be exceptionally good. But Chris Wright is starting from day one. That you can count on. Daytona hoya... while i love the enthusiam... you're way off base calling Wright the 2nd best point in the BE. Will he start?...probably. Does he have a lot to prove?... absolutely!!! As of now, he'd probably be considered the 3rd best pg if he were playing on Ucon behind Price and Walker. What makes us think that he will be any better than Walker? Kemba could be one and done. If Wright was anywhere near as good as a Walker, a Flynn, a Reynolds, heck...even a James.... we'd all be very happy. The kid is still raw... has little experiece... will likely settle in and be very good... but it will take time. In my mind, there are three guys who start every single game of the year... Monroe, Summers, Sapp. If Wright performs... he'll be added to that list... but its certainly not automatic.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jul 4, 2008 16:44:24 GMT -5
IMHO, the most likely rotation is:
Starters Monroe Summers Freeman Wright Sapp
First guys off the bench Vaughan Clark
Then, Sims Nikita
OK, we haven't seen half these guys play and the first team practice is months away. So how could we possibly know?!?!?
We can't. But the first practice is months away. We have to do SOMETHING until then. What better than wild speculation?!?!
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