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Rivers
Mar 15, 2008 22:51:59 GMT -5
Post by arlingtonhoya05 on Mar 15, 2008 22:51:59 GMT -5
Stat line from the Tourney... 3 points, 1-6 from the field, 1-2 from the line, 5 rebounds. He is a solid defensive player, but his offensive deficiencies slow down our entire offense when he is in the game. Generally speaking he struggles creating for himself, and for others, and when pressured turns the ball over very easily. Now that wright is back, I don't care to see him in the game unless we need a specific defensive stop, or are playing a team with a taller guard. What do you all think?
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Rivers
Mar 15, 2008 22:54:28 GMT -5
Post by alleninxis on Mar 15, 2008 22:54:28 GMT -5
5 rebounds says a lot.
I had no problem with him tonight.
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Rivers
Mar 15, 2008 22:55:38 GMT -5
Post by arlingtonhoya05 on Mar 15, 2008 22:55:38 GMT -5
the 5 rebounds were his total from 3 games. Sorry i didn't clarify, that stat line is from all three games.
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Rivers
Mar 15, 2008 22:58:03 GMT -5
Post by alleninxis on Mar 15, 2008 22:58:03 GMT -5
well,
I just had the one in my mind from tonight off the FT where it would've been another offensive rebound to Pitt if he didn't take it away.
Chris didn't play well either, none of the guards did.
Jeremiah is painful on offense but a work in progress. He's valuable to this team in other ways. Him playing 15 minutes a night is fine with me
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hoyanick
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 417
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Rivers
Mar 15, 2008 22:58:05 GMT -5
Post by hoyanick on Mar 15, 2008 22:58:05 GMT -5
I'm sorry - I don't like to be negative, but Jeremiah is a complete liability on offense. That is, he is when he settles for jump shots or even when he decides to kick it out on drives. Rivers can, and should, drive to the hole more and SHOOT and draw the FOUL. Otherwise, our offense will continue to stagnate with him in the game.
Lets go HOYAS. Lets finish the ROY-JON-TYLER-EWING era the right way.
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,603
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Rivers
Mar 15, 2008 22:59:42 GMT -5
Post by hoyatables on Mar 15, 2008 22:59:42 GMT -5
Rivers wasn't the problem tonight. He had some good boards as he always does. The team was the problem. We just didn't have it. Pitt did. No reason to single one guy out.
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ichirohoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 535
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Rivers
Mar 15, 2008 23:09:34 GMT -5
Post by ichirohoya on Mar 15, 2008 23:09:34 GMT -5
After a loss the little things that Rivers does well kind of get pushed back in our minds and the glaring flaws in his game get talked about alot.
Does he bring much to the table on offense at this point? Clearly, no Do I cringe every time he takes a jump shot? Yes. Was he any worse on offense tonight than Wright? I can't say for sure. Is he still a contributing member of a final four caliber team? Yes!
Rivers wasn't THE problem tonight. Maybe he wasn't even PART of the problem. But, with a few defensive boards and a stop or two, I believe that in his own unique way, Rivers is a PART of the SOLUTION.
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Rivers
Mar 15, 2008 23:24:57 GMT -5
Post by mapei on Mar 15, 2008 23:24:57 GMT -5
Jeremiah also had 2 steals and, I think, 2 assists.
His numbers are low in part because he only played 36 minutes total, an average of 12 per game.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Rivers
Mar 15, 2008 23:54:54 GMT -5
Post by OldHoyafan on Mar 15, 2008 23:54:54 GMT -5
Even though Wright did not play well tonight I would have loved to see him in the game more than Rivers. I know that JT3 wanted someone who could keep Fields out of the lane but I think Wright could have done that also. Hoyas guards don't seem to finish contested drives to the basket. Even Wright and Sapp got stuffed a couple of times. Rivers just does not give you a viable option on offense.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Rivers
Mar 15, 2008 23:55:10 GMT -5
Post by the_way on Mar 15, 2008 23:55:10 GMT -5
Rivers is a role player. What he is asked to do on the court he does it well, play defense and guard the best perimeter offensive player. everything else with him is kinda extra.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,755
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 6:55:01 GMT -5
Post by blueandgray on Mar 16, 2008 6:55:01 GMT -5
I had a big problem with Rivers tonight and thought we with the Rivers/Macklin line up last night too early and too often. I would have liked to see more floor time for Freeman and Sapp.
Plus, I think Rivers started a trend when he shot a three from the baseline and hit the side of the backboard. I couldn't believe when Wright and Ewing both did the samething against Pitt. You rarely see that shot once...but three times!?!
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 8:34:29 GMT -5
Post by HoyaFanNY on Mar 16, 2008 8:34:29 GMT -5
we all knew rivers wasn't a good offensive player, so i'm not sure where the problem is here. he is what he is. i have more of a problem with macklin and his inability to play defense or rebound.
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 10:17:18 GMT -5
Post by bahoya on Mar 16, 2008 10:17:18 GMT -5
Rivers clearly can play defense and adds little else. Last night he wasn't much of a liabilty, but his biggest weakness is handling the ball against the press. When the Hoya's play teams that press, Wallace needs to be in the game.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 10:30:13 GMT -5
Post by MCIGuy on Mar 16, 2008 10:30:13 GMT -5
Stat line from the Tourney... 3 points, 1-6 from the field, 1-2 from the line, 5 rebounds. He is a solid defensive player, but his offensive deficiencies slow down our entire offense when he is in the game. Generally speaking he struggles creating for himself, and for others, and when pressured turns the ball over very easily. Now that wright is back, I don't care to see him in the game unless we need a specific defensive stop, or are playing a team with a taller guard. What do you all think? Can people get off Rivers' back and just trust III to put the right player on the floor at the right time?
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 11:00:50 GMT -5
Post by HoyasAreHungry on Mar 16, 2008 11:00:50 GMT -5
rivers does well when he doesn't shoot jump shots....his pull-up jump shot has consistently gone in. He looks awful when he takes threes when they are kicked out to him. If he sticks to what he is good at he will be fine. I agree that he is definitely more of a slasher than a jumpshooter
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 11:05:29 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Mar 16, 2008 11:05:29 GMT -5
Ah, more Rivers and Macklin bashing-never ceases to end. Macklin hurt Hoyas how last night? Was he the only guy not getting a board? You rebound as a TEAM--and Macklin's defense was a positive--he is very active/quick-he's just not a great post defender due to his build--wish he'd front the post more--that is where his quickness comes in--but he and Rivers were hustling on defense, diving on floor and Macklin's near steal on sideline was everything people are praising Pitt for--it's just that they retrieved the ball and Ramon was open on the scramble back-that is execution by Pitt but not at fault of Hoyas.
When you win--everyone sings praise-when you lose--half of this site goes off on guys. My frustration is in how the team plays--win or lose. It's why I am not upset now but was back when they were playing like dung and winning due to how they were playing and knowing that type of play wasn't improvement.
Last night's loss was a tough one only because of the stakes. If you look how game went--the team who won--deserved it--but Hoyas were there for a push late when they had no business being in that game. If the foul trouble isn't there--it's a different game and I don't mean that in any way to say it was bad officiating-I'm saying if you don't have Summers/Hibbert with foul trouble--you don't need to "specialize" so much and who knows how the end goes? Fouls called on Hoyas were DESERVED--so again--not saying refs played a factor--saying the self inflicted foul trouble did.
I like that Hoyas had some foul trouble--because NCAA ball is like this-one game they let you play--next you get called for looking at opponent. Hoyas can't afford foul trouble in frontcourt--backcourt is different with Wright's addition-we can sub more-but you can't afford to lose Roy, Summers, Pat to fouls--or we're in trouble.
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BurgerMadness
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 12:19:52 GMT -5
Post by BurgerMadness on Mar 16, 2008 12:19:52 GMT -5
I was very critical of Rivers last night. Today, after a trip to church, I have forgiven him. He simply has had a bad run in NYC. When he's on his best game, he is a clear addition to our team. I think he has worked on his shooting, but just as Wallace went through a slump, Rivers seems to be struggling a bit. I don't necessarily want him to shoot his way out of the slump, but would like to see him continue to take open shots. We need that to keep teams honest. I still remember that game last year where teams sagged so far off a freshman Rivers that they let him take wide open 3's (and he made them). His rb'ing is needed, and his defensive skills are a plus. Just need to have a 2nd guard who can run the offense when he's in.
Macklin's defense is improving. He seems to be in better positions defensively in general. FTs still require divine intervention though - would like to see him try underhand FTs in a game. It's no less emabarassing than clanging them off the side of the rim.
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 12:23:43 GMT -5
Post by hoyalove4ever on Mar 16, 2008 12:23:43 GMT -5
Can people get off Rivers' back and just trust III to put the right player on the floor at the right time?[/quote]
AMEN!
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 12:36:38 GMT -5
Post by AvantGuardHoya on Mar 16, 2008 12:36:38 GMT -5
The Rivers/Macklin bashing tends to be ridiculous. Okay, they are not our best offensive players. And they’ve made their share of mistakes on the floor. But to make it seem like they don’t make valuable contributions to the TEAM, says more about their detractors’ lack of real basketball insight more than anything else.
These players are both sophomores and used as role players. Their best ball is, hopefully, ahead of them. They’ve played more and generally shown improvement from their freshman seasons. Is it too much to ask that we consider the possibility that they’ll work on their deficiencies and be even better players over the next two years?
When I think about Rivers and Macklin, I’m reminded of a few players of yesteryear. I’m not at all comparing them talent-wise, but think about this…. Gene Smith was an important part Big John’s early 80’s success and he showed less offense than Rivers. I can’t imagine anyone thinking that Charles Smith would be anything more than a role player -- not to mention conference POY -- given his play through his sophomore year. Ever heard of Don Reid? Or Ya Ya Dia? Those guys made great contributions as upper classmen that I seriously doubt casual observers could possibly have foreseen. They did quite well in fulfilling their role as members of a team.
JT III is paid quite well to shepherd this basketball program and given the level of success he’s managed in the brief time he’s been head coach, I think he deserves more than a modicum of acceptance with respect to who he plays and when they see floor time. No, this ain’t rocket science, but I think he knows exactly what he’s doing – no doubt better than any of our posters.
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 13:44:53 GMT -5
Post by arlingtonhoya05 on Mar 16, 2008 13:44:53 GMT -5
ok, hes a role player, who did not fulfill his role all tournament long. Playing good defensive is not fouling out in 11 minutes. Our offense was stagnant when he was on the floor. And i wouldn't look at this thread as bashing. Players should be held accountable when they play poorly. I'm looking forward to Jason Clark coming in next season, he's a better defensive player than Rivers, and can score as well. Rivers can obviously play better, and I hope he does so in the tourney.
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