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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 13:50:55 GMT -5
Post by hoyaderm1 on Mar 16, 2008 13:50:55 GMT -5
I like what Rivers brings defensively, and think that he has the work ethic and resources to become a solid offensive player. He went through a stretch of games early in the season where he was 9/13 on 3 pointers, and then went 2/21 to close the season. Perhaps he'll eventually beome more confident and instinctive on offensive. If not, it will be interesting to see what happens when Jason Clark comes on board. Clark is reputed to have a similar defensive skill set, but with more offensive skills.
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 13:52:12 GMT -5
Post by williambraskyiii on Mar 16, 2008 13:52:12 GMT -5
agree with arlingtonhoya completely. It's an easy default response to say stop bashing and trust the staff but he fouled out in ELEVEN minutes. I mean come on. We will still be fairly thin at guard next year so i expect rivers' minutes to remain steady but he is of very limited utility in my opinion.
hate on these comments if you want, i know he is a student and a kid, blah blah, but he is just not that good.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,991
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 13:55:18 GMT -5
Post by HoyaFanNY on Mar 16, 2008 13:55:18 GMT -5
don reid or ya ya dia??? are you actually serious? we're talking about a mcdonalds all american, the big ticket, not some 2 or 3 star over achiever like don reid. he averages 2 rebounds a game in 13 minutes a game. that's not good. i don't think it's too much to ask for a big guy to actually grab a rebound every once in a while.
i'm just stating the obvious. don't get your panties in a bunch girls.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,910
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 13:55:45 GMT -5
Post by Filo on Mar 16, 2008 13:55:45 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to Jason Clark coming in next season, he's a better defensive player than Rivers, and can score as well. Clark sure looks like he is going to be great. But you can say now that he is a better defensive player, based on his play against HS comp, than Rivers, who has D'd up some of the toughest offensive players in the Big East? Wow, just wow. I wanted Rivers in more yesterday, since offense was not our problem (Roy was able to score at will when he got the ball). We needed someone on Fields, who was absolutely throttling the Hoyas.
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 14:01:11 GMT -5
Post by alleninxis on Mar 16, 2008 14:01:11 GMT -5
If Clark is a better defender....I can't wait to see him on the court
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 14:02:48 GMT -5
Post by arlingtonhoya05 on Mar 16, 2008 14:02:48 GMT -5
Fields 6 asts were impressive, but he was 2-10 from the the field, and 5-13 from the line...not quite throttling. And yes Clark is guarding HS players, but hes playing in arguably the best high school basketball league in the nation. He's not guarding scrub players.
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blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,755
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 16:52:52 GMT -5
Post by blueandgray on Mar 16, 2008 16:52:52 GMT -5
Ah, more Rivers and Macklin bashing-never ceases to end. Macklin hurt Hoyas how last night? Was he the only guy not getting a board? You rebound as a TEAM--and Macklin's defense was a positive--he is very active/quick-he's just not a great post defender due to his build--wish he'd front the post more--that is where his quickness comes in--but he and Rivers were hustling on defense, diving on floor and Macklin's near steal on sideline was everything people are praising Pitt for--it's just that they retrieved the ball and Ramon was open on the scramble back-that is execution by Pitt but not at fault of Hoyas. When you win--everyone sings praise-when you lose--half of this site goes off on guys. My frustration is in how the team plays--win or lose. It's why I am not upset now but was back when they were playing like dung and winning due to how they were playing and knowing that type of play wasn't improvement. Last night's loss was a tough one only because of the stakes. If you look how game went--the team who won--deserved it--but Hoyas were there for a push late when they had no business being in that game. If the foul trouble isn't there--it's a different game and I don't mean that in any way to say it was bad officiating-I'm saying if you don't have Summers/Hibbert with foul trouble--you don't need to "specialize" so much and who knows how the end goes? Fouls called on Hoyas were DESERVED--so again--not saying refs played a factor--saying the self inflicted foul trouble did. I like that Hoyas had some foul trouble--because NCAA ball is like this-one game they let you play--next you get called for looking at opponent. Hoyas can't afford foul trouble in frontcourt--backcourt is different with Wright's addition-we can sub more-but you can't afford to lose Roy, Summers, Pat to fouls--or we're in trouble. RDF... i think the bashing comes when someone isn't living up to expectations...which is the case with Mack. Imagine for one minute if Mack played like the All American who at one point (before the rule changes) was considering actually jumping from high school to the NBA. If he was that guy (a starter), we would be absolutely dominant inside, be a great rebounding team, and Summers could go back to the three spot. We'd be a completely different team. He's not what we thought he might be, not even a shadow of what we thought he might be and as a result people, including myself, are frustrated.
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AvantGuardHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
"It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
Posts: 1,481
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Rivers
Mar 16, 2008 17:58:04 GMT -5
Post by AvantGuardHoya on Mar 16, 2008 17:58:04 GMT -5
I’m not limiting my perspective to just this last game, this tournament or season. Some comments that have been made have a ring of finality about Rivers’/Macklin’s ability that is simply too short-sighted for me. I still think both can improve and will be productive players for the Hoyas, if not this post-season, then over the course of their final two years.
I don’t see much reaction to my remarks about Charles or Gene Smith, but what they provided was essential to their teams’ success. One was a role player for two seasons who became a starter and as a senior was BE POY; the other was a key defensive specialist. Rivers may never be a starter or BE POY, but I think he will continue to be a valuable member of this team.
And, yes, I mention Reid and Dia. I could care less about a compilation of opinion about a HS kid which is reflected in McDonald’s AA selections. The issue is whether you come in and improve your game and can impact on your team’s success, no matter the skill set you bring to the court. Period. Getting hung up on someone’s HS exploits or reputation is a serious mistake. I just think that the fact that Vernon hasn’t demonstrated to folks what they thought he was capable of by now doesn’t mean he cannot unveil more over the next two years. If a Reid or Dia shows you nothing or less than you anticipate for a couple of seasons before blossoming, why can’t a Macklin? Or does the fact that you were a McDonald’s AA mean you are a virtual finished product who has little upside? Get real.
This is what happens when people jump to conclusions about a player based on their HS resume and the perceived slowness of their development in the college game. Expectations…. Blah, blah, blah. What a burden. Jeremiah, Vernon, I say continue working on your game and getting better as players and people. Lots of us in your corner and look forward to your continuing success.
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