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Post by jerseyshorehoya on Feb 20, 2008 18:02:36 GMT -5
playing great defense is alot different than the "attitude" that JT is talking about. While I do love our poise out there on the court, I almost wish we would show some fire at points (while staying under control and harnessing that fire into good plays). I was thinking this exact thing during the Indiana Purdue game the other night....I'm talking about DJ White just feeding off the crowd's energy and howling after he rebounded over three guys and stuck it back in for a put back. Ewing comes closest to this on the team and we've seen Jessie and Roy pounding their chests. DaJaun early in the season really got after it defensively....you could see his intensity as he got right in his opponents faces and clapped his hands at them while holding them scoreless. JT is so right I didn't see any EMOTION from the team after they were getting embarrassed in the first half at Cuse. Again, I don't want to take away from the personality of the team who stay poised under pressure but I hope we can mix some of that killer attitude with the poise we usually have down the stretch. Not to repeat myself but I completely disagree with this post. Basketball is a game of numbers, and unless you can show me that Georgetown's defensive efficiency numbers have decreased since Dajuan stopped clapping his hands, I am not buying it. I don't know what killer attitude is. To me, killer attitude is Jon Wallace hitting consecutive threes to silence a raucous Providence crowd, not theatrics that have no bearing on the game. What is more "killer attitude," overaggressive in your face, slapping the floor man to man, defense or is the back door pass that results in a layup behind the guy slapping the floor? Give me solid execution over theatrics every day of the week. What I do agree with is that the biggest difference between this team and last years team is no Jeff Green, who was the perfect point forward for this offense. The myth of the positive impact of "fire" and "attitude" belongs in the same trashbin as "clutch hitting." |
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Feb 20, 2008 18:23:01 GMT -5
playing great defense is alot different than the "attitude" that JT is talking about. While I do love our poise out there on the court, I almost wish we would show some fire at points (while staying under control and harnessing that fire into good plays). I was thinking this exact thing during the Indiana Purdue game the other night....I'm talking about DJ White just feeding off the crowd's energy and howling after he rebounded over three guys and stuck it back in for a put back. Ewing comes closest to this on the team and we've seen Jessie and Roy pounding their chests. DaJaun early in the season really got after it defensively....you could see his intensity as he got right in his opponents faces and clapped his hands at them while holding them scoreless. JT is so right I didn't see any EMOTION from the team after they were getting embarrassed in the first half at Cuse. Again, I don't want to take away from the personality of the team who stay poised under pressure but I hope we can mix some of that killer attitude with the poise we usually have down the stretch. Not to repeat myself but I completely disagree with this post. Basketball is a game of numbers, and unless you can show me that Georgetown's defensive efficiency numbers have decreased since Dajuan stopped clapping his hands, I am not buying it. I don't know what killer attitude is. To me, killer attitude is Jon Wallace hitting consecutive threes to silence a raucous Providence crowd, not theatrics that have no bearing on the game. What is more "killer attitude," overaggressive in your face, slapping the floor man to man, defense or is the back door pass that results in a layup behind the guy slapping the floor? Give me solid execution over theatrics every day of the week. What I do agree with is that the biggest difference between this team and last years team is no Jeff Green, who was the perfect point forward for this offense. The myth of the positive impact of "fire" and "attitude" belongs in the same trashbin as "clutch hitting." just to clarify...and I should have....I don't advocate these over-the- top shows of emotion as what I want the Hoyas to do. I was merely speaking to that type of attitude....nowhere in my post did I say our numbers defensively were better when DaJaun was doing this....I love the way our defense is playing, I was just citing an example of what I was talking about. My point, which I didn't make clear, was you could see in DaJaun's face how focused and intense he was wanting to stop his defender at all costs. I haven't seen this recently (again not saying our defense is suffering) The example was just about attitude not theatrics. I agree that hitting big shots is having a killer attitude, but I also contend that putting away teams that you have a lead on speaks more to that "killer attitude." I don't think anyone can disagree that we haven't had many games this season where we have put away our opponents after smelling blood in the water. My post had nothing to do with numbers or our efficiency or whatever..it was about their on court demeanors. Like I did say in my last post I love how calm we are, but I would like to see a bit of fire without getting out of control. I don't know how you can say the importance of getting fired up is a myth...coming out flat to a fired up team in the dome is a myth? |
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Feb 20, 2008 18:32:15 GMT -5
Eh...you win by executing on offense and continuing to play suffocating defense. Talent wins in the end. I'm sure other teams don't like to see our defense in the building. How exactly were we punching teams in the mouth last year on the way to the final four? Jeff Green? Not quite. Jessie and Pat are pretty tough and Tyler if he gets some run is tough. We're fine...we just need to play smarter on offense and hit shots. Look at our 3 point shooting in our 4 losses...all around the 20% mark. We have no chance against a good team if we shoot 4-22 from 3. I've seen real progress the past two games on offense. Much better ball movement. JTIII's teams peak at the end...let's trust the man again... In our first 3 losses this has been true. but in the cuse loss we shot 44% from 3. I agree that shooting poorly from 3 is bad and usually results in a loss, but not all by itself, it needs to be coupled with something else. We shot 28% from 3 against ball st on 25 attempts, we shot 24% on 17 shots against WV and 29% against Seton hall on 14 attempts. We won all of those games and those are bad 3pt%s. shooting poorly from 3 alone won't doom us, just like shooting well doesn't mean we'll win. You don't loose a game by only doing one thing wrong. In most of our losses we've coupled poor 3pt shooting with subpar defense at least by our standards allowing 44% shooting by opponents in losses 10% pts higher than our season average. |
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hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
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Post by hoyafoeva on Feb 20, 2008 18:47:25 GMT -5
We are as talented as last year...we lost only one player, yes Jeff was a hell of a player at the Hilltop, but we have more firepower this year, its just they're not playing aggressive basketball on the both ends of the floor "consistently"
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hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
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Post by hoyafoeva on Feb 20, 2008 18:49:45 GMT -5
playing great defense is alot different than the "attitude" that JT is talking about. While I do love our poise out there on the court, I almost wish we would show some fire at points (while staying under control and harnessing that fire into good plays). I was thinking this exact thing during the Indiana Purdue game the other night....I'm talking about DJ White just feeding off the crowd's energy and howling after he rebounded over three guys and stuck it back in for a put back. Ewing comes closest to this on the team and we've seen Jessie and Roy pounding their chests. DaJaun early in the season really got after it defensively....you could see his intensity as he got right in his opponents faces and clapped his hands at them while holding them scoreless. JT is so right I didn't see any EMOTION from the team after they were getting embarrassed in the first half at Cuse. Again, I don't want to take away from the personality of the team who stay poised under pressure but I hope we can mix some of that killer attitude with the poise we usually have down the stretch. Not to repeat myself but I completely disagree with this post. Basketball is a game of numbers, and unless you can show me that Georgetown's defensive efficiency numbers have decreased since Dajuan stopped clapping his hands, I am not buying it. I don't know what killer attitude is. To me, killer attitude is Jon Wallace hitting consecutive threes to silence a raucous Providence crowd, not theatrics that have no bearing on the game. What is more "killer attitude," overaggressive in your face, slapping the floor man to man, defense or is the back door pass that results in a layup behind the guy slapping the floor? Give me solid execution over theatrics every day of the week. What I do agree with is that the biggest difference between this team and last years team is no Jeff Green, who was the perfect point forward for this offense. The myth of the positive impact of "fire" and "attitude" belongs in the same trashbin as "clutch hitting." Did you see Big John's team of the late 70' and 80's?  ? No myth's just facts |
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Post by wildhoya on Feb 20, 2008 19:09:02 GMT -5
foeva
based on your stated birth year of 1972, it appears you did not see much of that era except on some classic replays.
just fact.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 20, 2008 19:36:02 GMT -5
yes big john,,,,,, lichoya has been saying for about six weeks ........ ROYANDEVERBODYELSEBEMEANER ....... end of story.......nuf said........ and the seniors need to keep leading that ....... go hoyas be meaner ............big john tells the truth....... be meaner and wininger ....... yup ......... beat cinncy
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hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
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Post by hoyafoeva on Feb 20, 2008 20:04:25 GMT -5
foeva based on your stated birth year of 1972, it appears you did not see much of that era except on some classic replays. just fact. My bad '62...Hoyafoeva, sorry my bad |
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mrsixer123
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,283 
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Post by mrsixer123 on Feb 20, 2008 20:48:12 GMT -5
sixer, I agree with you in the other thread about why this team will not recreate last year's magic, but not here. I agree, the team does NOT attack the hoop consistently, and that goes for EVERYONE, including Roy. Further, the team is somewhat soft on both the offensive and defensive glass. And as I think you meant to point out, the team does NOT press all that often. That said, jerseyshore brings up an interesting point. The team is about to set the school record for defensive field goal percentage. They play tough, in-your-face defense in half-court sets. Hands are constantly in faces, defenders maintain good position for the most part... good team defense all around. Ultimately, the reason this team will not repeat the feats of last season is the lack of Jeff Green. Yes, Chris Wright would be a gifted playmaker on this squad, but he does not bring what Green brought to the table. The team does NOT have too many choir boys, it is simply not as talented as it was this time last year. just to clarify, i never said we had too many choir boys. big john said it on his radio show and i thought it would be a good topic for the board. i am not about to argue whether or not this team play excellent half court D because they do; however, does anyone believe this team ranks in the top 5 when it comes to the best hoya defensive teams, ever? yes, this team is about to set the school record for defensive field goal percentage, but i would argue that our slow down style of play on both ends of the court plays a major factor. the fact that we seldom take quick shots, attack the basket when facing a full court press, etc limits the opponents offensive possessions and shortens the game. i am not knocking this philosophy as it has brought us great success. all i am saying is our slow down style of play may not allow us to be as aggressive as teams of the past |
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,218
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Post by hoyarooter on Feb 20, 2008 21:00:16 GMT -5
sixer, I agree with you in the other thread about why this team will not recreate last year's magic, but not here. I agree, the team does NOT attack the hoop consistently, and that goes for EVERYONE, including Roy. Further, the team is somewhat soft on both the offensive and defensive glass. And as I think you meant to point out, the team does NOT press all that often. That said, jerseyshore brings up an interesting point. The team is about to set the school record for defensive field goal percentage. They play tough, in-your-face defense in half-court sets. Hands are constantly in faces, defenders maintain good position for the most part... good team defense all around. Ultimately, the reason this team will not repeat the feats of last season is the lack of Jeff Green. Yes, Chris Wright would be a gifted playmaker on this squad, but he does not bring what Green brought to the table. The team does NOT have too many choir boys, it is simply not as talented as it was this time last year. just to clarify, i never said we had too many choir boys. big john said it on his radio show and i thought it would be a good topic for the board. i am not about to argue whether or not this team play excellent half court D because they do; however, does anyone believe this team ranks in the top 5 when it comes to the best hoya defensive teams, ever? yes, this team is about to set the school record for defensive field goal percentage, but i would argue that our slow down style of play on both ends of the court plays a major factor. the fact that we seldom take quick shots, attack the basket when facing a full court press, etc limits the opponents offensive possessions and shortens the game. i am not knocking this philosophy as it has brought us great success. all i am saying is our slow down style of play may not allow us to be as aggressive as teams of the past Now this is a really interesting question, perhaps best left for another thread. I don't think this team is as good defensively as the three PE-led teams that played for the national championship, but it might rank next. It's hard to quantify this, unless you just want to go by the FG%, which is certainly a valid consideration. It's just that many of Pops' teams had the reputation for being super-aggressive defensively, trapping all over the court, etc., and this team doesn't do that at all. Nevertheless, that FG% defense is certainly a testament to how the kids get after it in the half court. |
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Post by jerseyshorehoya on Feb 20, 2008 21:02:48 GMT -5
does anyone believe this team ranks in the top 5 when it comes to the best hoya defensive teams, ever? yes, this team is about to set the school record for defensive field goal percentage, but i would argue that our slow down style of play on both ends of the court plays a major factor. 1. Yes, absolutely. 2. And I have a hard time understanding on how a slow down style of play and limiting possessions would be the main reason for the team being #1 in the country in shooting percentage defense. The team is #1 in the country in shooting percentage defense, because it is the best half court defense in the country. Period. |
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mrsixer123
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,283
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Post by mrsixer123 on Feb 20, 2008 21:11:01 GMT -5
Eh...you win by executing on offense and continuing to play suffocating defense. Talent wins in the end. I'm sure other teams don't like to see our defense in the building. How exactly were we punching teams in the mouth last year on the way to the final four? Jeff Green? Not quite. Jessie and Pat are pretty tough and Tyler if he gets some run is tough. We're fine...we just need to play smarter on offense and hit shots. Look at our 3 point shooting in our 4 losses...all around the 20% mark. We have no chance against a good team if we shoot 4-22 from 3. I've seen real progress the past two games on offense. Much better ball movement. JTIII's teams peak at the end...let's trust the man again... i beg to dffer in regards to jeff. looking back at march alone, we punched teams in the mouth by having a take charge player that everyone in the building knew was going to get the ball, yet he refused to be denied whether it was nd and pitt in the BE tourny or vandy in the NCAAs, jeff was our knock out blow until the oh st game |
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,781
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 20, 2008 23:15:30 GMT -5
While JT, Jr. was an excellent, HOF coach, and I don't think this type of comment does any harm... he also needs to realize that his son is his own man and does things his way. None of these kids or their coach is going to change their entire perspective, personality or style now, decades into life and most of the way through the season.
JTIII does things his way, and they've worked out pretty well.
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
Posts: 5,304
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Post by Cambridge on Feb 20, 2008 23:18:34 GMT -5
Well it ain't over until Austin Freeman sings...
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,440
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Post by lichoya68 on Feb 20, 2008 23:22:03 GMT -5
you all callling austin FAT ?? huh to me hes like a freaking tight end and hell be of help soon go hoyas go tight end austin your game is coming 25 points soon yup go hoyasbebigjohnmean beat the bearcats.
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hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
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Post by hoyafoeva on Feb 21, 2008 0:08:54 GMT -5
While JT, Jr. was an excellent, HOF coach, and I don't think this type of comment does any harm... he also needs to realize that his son is his own man and does things his way. None of these kids or their coach is going to change their entire perspective, personality or style now, decades into life and most of the way through the season. JTIII does things his way, and they've worked out pretty well. Don't think for one second that he doesn't listen to his dad...JTIII says he talks to his pops quite a lot...why wouldn't he, thats to his advantage! He is simply saying "we are getting around and we should push back" and lets see the outcome!!! Bottom line!!! |
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Locker
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,265
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Post by Locker on Feb 21, 2008 0:26:44 GMT -5
does anyone believe this team ranks in the top 5 when it comes to the best hoya defensive teams, ever? yes, this team is about to set the school record for defensive field goal percentage, but i would argue that our slow down style of play on both ends of the court plays a major factor. 1. Yes, absolutely. 2. And I have a hard time understanding on how a slow down style of play and limiting possessions would be the main reason for the team being #1 in the country in shooting percentage defense. The team is #1 in the country in shooting percentage defense, because it is the best half court defense in the country. Period. Yeah, I'm not sure what mr. sixer's point is here. How we play on offense has almost nothing to do with our defensive field goal percentage. I guess the fact that we don't really press conceivably reduces our turnovers forced and boosts our defensive field goal percentage (fewer layups after beating the press), but there are plenty of terrific defensive teams in college today that don't press much -- and they all let opponents shoot better from the field. Hell, the Mourning and Mutombo teams didn't press much either and played at a slow pace -- yet they all allowed opponents to shoot better from the floor. |
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Feb 21, 2008 0:43:29 GMT -5
sixer, I agree with you in the other thread about why this team will not recreate last year's magic, but not here. I agree, the team does NOT attack the hoop consistently, and that goes for EVERYONE, including Roy. Further, the team is somewhat soft on both the offensive and defensive glass. And as I think you meant to point out, the team does NOT press all that often. That said, jerseyshore brings up an interesting point. The team is about to set the school record for defensive field goal percentage. They play tough, in-your-face defense in half-court sets. Hands are constantly in faces, defenders maintain good position for the most part... good team defense all around. Ultimately, the reason this team will not repeat the feats of last season is the lack of Jeff Green. Yes, Chris Wright would be a gifted playmaker on this squad, but he does not bring what Green brought to the table. The team does NOT have too many choir boys, it is simply not as talented as it was this time last year. I agree with whoever said before that it doesn't matter if we aren't as talented as last years team because it isn't last year. We don't have to fact last years team or any of the same teams they did. Last years team wasn't incredibally talented either, infact most of the teams they beat were more talented then them. At the end of the day talent doesn't win games, teams do, otherwise we wouldn't have beaten UNC last year, and George Mason never would have beaten UConn in 2006, and Miami wouldn't have beaten Duke tonight, and the list goes on and on. And right now we aren't playing like a team, we are playing like individuals*. If this team can some how come together and start playing with some confidence and smarts we will be fine. Also even if this team WAS playing as well or better than last years team it wouldn't mean they would repeat what they did, and I think a lot of people take that for granted. * and by that I don't mean we are playing selfishly I just don't think we are all on the same page offensivley and when other teams make their runs. |
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,427
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 21, 2008 7:03:49 GMT -5
I agree with whoever said before that it doesn't matter if we aren't as talented as last years team because it isn't last year. We don't have to fact last years team or any of the same teams they did. Last years team wasn't incredibly talented either, in fact most of the teams they beat were more talented then them. Please list all those more talented teams that Gtown just happened to beat last year. Pitt? UConn? Louisville? St John's? Cincy? Vanderbilt? Boston College? Old Dominion...., no, wait, the Hoyas lost to them. And then explain your measurement for rating talent. The only one I would possibly concede is UNC and even that isn't as sure a thing as some might think. Do we measure talent by high school accolades? If that's the case THIS team has three McDAAs and four Jordan All Americans. And that's not even including Roy. That should make them one of the top ten talented teams in the nation even though Chris Wright is out with an injury. Right? Do we measure talent by how many players end up in the pros? If so we have to wait before we can judge all of the teams from this season. That wait could be for years. Or do we judge talent by how well those players do in the pros? If that's the case then we'll need another ten years to make a truly thorough analysis. This team isn't clicking like last year's but its talent isn't its major problem. 95% of the teams would love to have the talent on this squad and that's perhaps a conservative estimate. |
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Post by hometownhoya72 on Feb 21, 2008 9:08:17 GMT -5
Along with other fans I have noticed Pat is not the only "springboard" of emotion on the squad. Tyler is as tough as they come. As a matter of fact Tyler has more techs than anyone else on the team. Those two together are gritty combo on the floor. Technical fouls are not what you want in a game during a crucial moment. But they have a tendency to recharge a team, regain focus, and stop the momentum swing.
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? No myth's just facts
