Ug-ly! Villanova Post-Game Discussion

[DanMcQ]

Given the result of the Louisville game, I plan to fly down for the Nova game.

Who will pay me to wear Rick Pitino's Fantasy Island Suit?

[RDF]

I'm resigned to the fact Corey Fisher will get to spots he wants and give Hoyas problems--he'll be the best guard on court--BY FAR. The key--to run the offense--and not go away from what Hoyas HAVE to do--it's not that they have a luxury--it's not about getting everyone involved--it's about playing how they HAVE to play--which is going through Hibbert and playing off him--not going to him--ignoring him for long stretches--and expecting him to bail them out when they throw up bricks and get away from running any offense.

Another thing--if you aren't going to run the offense--then at least get out and run/get more shots up because it's a bad combo to play deliberate/not run an offense--watch 3 guys play hot potato with the ball and hoist up awful shots.

Nova got a big win tonight-and got contributions from guys outside of the overrated, one dimensional gunner (Reynolds). This game will be close-because CBB is about guard play-and Hoyas guards don't stick to what is working. They go away from it and let teams hang in games or make the game harder then it has to be.

RUN THE OFFENSE and you'll get high percentage looks against Nova.

I'll put it this way--if Hoyas do not win this game--I'm more focused on them getting 12 wins in the league and securing an NCAA bid then any talk of a damn championship. Then again, I expect championship teams to up their play and that should've started in Mid January--and have yet to see it--so I'll hope for another Hoya "miracle".

For the Rivers Haters--you better hope he is on court--because he's the only kid GU has that can defend Fisher at all--that kid is the truth.

[royski]

For all the crap we give Scotty Reynolds on this board, he has played well against us in the past. In three games he's scored 11, 18 and 16. I hope we have a plan for him, since he really is the player on that team that worries me most.

[RDF]

Feb 10, 2008 0:19:00 GMT -5 royski said:

For all the crap we give Scotty Reynolds on this board, he has played well against us in the past. In three games he's scored 11, 18 and 16. I hope we have a plan for him, since he really is the player on that team that worries me most.

You obviously haven't seen Corey Fisher play. If Reynolds "scares" you--then take a look at what he shot last year in those outings. His best shooting game was in Philly when Green pulled out the win for Hoyas. He stunk in BET and was average in Verizon--the Hoyas gave that game away.

Fisher is best guard on Nova-much like Wright would've been at GU by this time of season--and Stokes is their best pure shooter--he's a big time shooter. This will be a tough game--and until Hoyas decide to up their intensity/level of play for 40 minutes--it's going to be a game decided late with whomever makes more plays winning. Sad to say--as I think Hoyas should be at a level they win this by double digits--but I'm viewing this as a must win--because I dont' think Hoyas will win next weekend in Syracuse and Providence is a toss up. Great teams play travels with them--it's not wilting due to the "crowd" or when someone makes a run.

[royski]

I'll be honest, I haven't seen much of Fisher, outside of some highlights and a HS game where he dominated last year. However, if he's as good as you say then this game is nowhere near a gimme for this team.

But I was under the impression that Stokes wasn't panning out? (Just over 3 ppg)

[RDF]

Feb 10, 2008 0:32:36 GMT -5 royski said:

I'll be honest, I haven't seen much of Fisher, outside of some highlights and a HS game where he dominated last year. However, if he's as good as you say then this game is nowhere near a gimme for this team.

But I was under the impression that Stokes wasn't panning out? (Just over 3 ppg)

Stokes isn't there yet--but his shot is much smoother then Reynolds and he'll be a dangerous shooter. Watch his stroke Monday Night. Fisher is going to eat us alive--that is a given. He's a winner and tough cover. Reynolds off the ball is his best spot--and Wright finally went to that tonight--and Fisher who like Chris Wright--makes game easier for others--some other kids stepped up--local kid Dwyane Anderson got his first start and had a career high-including game winning 3.

If Hoyas lose this game--they'll drop to 5th in Big East by end of year.

[guru]

Feb 10, 2008 0:38:07 GMT -5 RDF said:

Feb 10, 2008 0:32:36 GMT -5 royski said:

I'll be honest, I haven't seen much of Fisher, outside of some highlights and a HS game where he dominated last year. However, if he's as good as you say then this game is nowhere near a gimme for this team.

But I was under the impression that Stokes wasn't panning out? (Just over 3 ppg)

Stokes isn't there yet--but his shot is much smoother then Reynolds and he'll be a dangerous shooter. Watch his stroke Monday Night. Fisher is going to eat us alive--that is a given. He's a winner and tough cover. Reynolds off the ball is his best spot--and Wright finally went to that tonight--and Fisher who like Chris Wright--makes game easier for others--some other kids stepped up--local kid Dwyane Anderson got his first start and had a career high-including game winning 3.

If Hoyas lose this game--they'll drop to 5th in Big East by end of year.

CHEESY DOODLES.

[Just Cos]

Feb 10, 2008 1:37:31 GMT -5 guru said:

Feb 10, 2008 0:38:07 GMT -5 RDF said:

Stokes isn't there yet--but his shot is much smoother then Reynolds and he'll be a dangerous shooter. Watch his stroke Monday Night. Fisher is going to eat us alive--that is a given. He's a winner and tough cover. Reynolds off the ball is his best spot--and Wright finally went to that tonight--and Fisher who like Chris Wright--makes game easier for others--some other kids stepped up--local kid Dwyane Anderson got his first start and had a career high-including game winning 3.

If Hoyas lose this game--they'll drop to 5th in Big East by end of year.

CHEESY DOODLES.

Thanks for the insight, again.

I've seen Fisher almost as many times as I've seen the Hoyas and he does worry me. Scottie may be a shooter/scorer, but Fisher makes the team better. He is the dribble-drive guy that finds the open man, as oppose to Reyondls who goes 25% with 30+ shots.

[Filo]

We all know RDF knows what he is talking about and has a good grasp for the games and current players. But here's the problem with his recent posts:

RDF says: This game is going to be real close and the Hoyas could lose because Nova has better guard play, etc.

Result 1: Hoyas lose. RDF is a genius.

Result 2: Hoyas get it together and trounce Nova. RDF is a genius because the Hoyas did what he said they had to do.

It's pretty easy to win arguments when you can do that. Just sayin'...

[FLHoya]

Feb 10, 2008 10:53:58 GMT -5 Filo said:

We all know RDF knows what he is talking about and has a good grasp for the games and current players. But here's the problem with his recent posts:

RDF says: This game is going to be real close and the Hoyas could lose because Nova has better guard play, etc.

Result 1: Hoyas lose. RDF is a genius.

Result 2: Hoyas get it together and trounce Nova. RDF is a genius because the Hoyas did what he said they had to do.

It's pretty easy to win arguments when you can do that. Just sayin'...

Although I would predict tomorrow will be Result 3: Hoyas struggle through a defensive, physical game against a team that always gives us problems, but we win by a single-digit margin in the 50s.

I suppose the fallout from that would be that there is no definitive resolution and we keep on discussing the "what ifs" for a few weeks longer.

Said this in one of the other threads--but I actually like that this is a Saturday-Monday turnaround b/c I'm interested to see how the Hoyas respond(*) to the loss against an opponent that will also employ a press and zone combination on defense.

(*Read: I'm still angry about last night.)

[FLHoya]

To go off on an entirely different tangent:

There's a lot of talk about whether this team had found its identity yet, whether it's too late for that, whether there are dark clouds on the horizon for the NCAA, signature wins, etc.

That signature wins part gets me a little. Not because I don't believe in beating good teams as an intrinsically good thing--garsh I would've like to have beaten Memphis. I just think the "identity" means more than the wins themselves.

Let's take a time machine back to February 10th, 2007. What's going on that day? Well, it's the 100th Anniversary of Georgetown Basketball celebration...and since as I write this sentence it is 12:31pm on the east coast, we would have been about 12 minutes into the first half against Marquette (which means we're ahead 16-15).

How are we doing in the season? We're 17-5, 7-2 in the Big East and just back into the AP Poll at #22. We come into the Marquette game on a 6 game winning streak, but 5 of those games were hardly tests (@ru, @shu, Depaul, Cincy, @sju in a row). Only in the last of the 6 against Louisville did we take it to a quality opponent.

Which gets me to one point--"quality wins" at that juncture of the season were three Ws over teams that would be #6 seeds in the NCAA Tournament--at Vandy in November, Notre Dame in January, and Louisville (funny enough, we also played the fourth #6 seed--Duke). What's interesting is that all three of those teams only starting putting it together late in the season, so none of those wins on 2/10 necessarily stood out as quality Ws.

But...and here's where timing comes in...it was all okay at the time b/c we had just plowed through six straight wins. We freaked out in November/December/the second week of January b/c of some tough losses...which is normal as far as I know message boards. It was easier, I suppose, to dismiss early season losses (and we lost 3 of our first 7 and 2 of our first three BE games) as "learning curve".

This season the losses are spread out--one in late December, one mid-January, one mid-February. All road losses, all "quality losses" I reckon to high NCAA seeds. But the timing and the questions the losses raise about our team have had more impact this year, and cause us to question "identity".

Which for me is somewhat unusual because...last year's team IMO didn't cement its identity until a two week stretch starting with that Marquette game. It began with Green and Hibbert, the star players, blowing up for 24 and 23 and GU taking down then #11 Marquette by 18. Continued two days later by demolishing a still-ranked West Virginia team at home. Then...a hard fought defensive struggle and one of my favorite end-games ever, as GU defense locked down Nova in Philly and Jeff Green drove in the dagger, previewing his postseason heroics and avenging an earlier loss. Finally, two weeks to the day after Marquette, the Hoyas weathered some sort of chest-bumping thing and laid the smack down on Pitt in the final minutes and grabbed the BE title away.

Those games showed that last year's was a team whose stars could take over a game, but more importantly that it was a team that thrived in crunch time and took games over. It carried over into the BET and the NCAA. (To be fair, it also netted the team 3-4 quality wins).

Here's where I get back to tomorrow's game: if anyone is expecting a similar run from this year's team, where our "identity" becomes clear and it all opens up in a flood of dominating wins...ain't gonna happen. The timing just isn't there.

We're going to play a tough Nova team tomorrow (screw their record, aside from the mystery of USF this is the team that always makes us look worse than we are). We're going to play at the Carrier Dome next Saturday. Those will be testers, no doubt. We may learn a ton in fact about how the team RESPONDS to last night's adversity. But that's not necessarily an NCAA-tournament relevant lesson on that scale (you don't get to bounce back after a loss in March).

What's more, we follow with @prov, Cincy, and SJU...not character building material as such.

I would contend that this year's team has already had its "identity forming" stretch. It happened from January 12-26, the stretch that include UConn, @pitt, ND, Cuse, and @wvu. For me, the key moment was in the second half against Pitt when JT3 went to a defense-first lineup and THAT more than anything else provided our spark that got us close in the game. We had seen it against UConn, coming back from down 7 with timely shooting, to be sure, but more importantly defensive stops. Who was lauded as the MVP against Cuse? Jeremiah Rivers--whose contribution was shutting down Cuse's guards late in the game. And finally the coup de grace really, erasing a ten point deficit against WVU in a very Nova-in-Feb-07 defensive performance--another game in the 50s--punctuated by Patrick Ewing's rejection at the buzzer.

That was our identity moment. This in fact IS a team for me whose identity is that they're going to win the close games by shutting down their opponent on the defensive end. We came up clutch any number of times on offense at the end of games in that two week stretch--and I believe we still perform mightily well in end-games, a great sign--but it's all set up now defensively.

It probably all does come back to the loss of Jeff Green in the end. If I have time and an available DVD, I like to watch the 2007 game between us and the team we're about to play (I'll be watching the aforemention GU-Nova game in Philly today). In so many of those, Jeff Green will make 3-4 shots a game that nobody on this team now could ever create. He added something offensively through his improvisation that we simply cannot replicate. And there's a much larger point about what his loss means for players like Roy Hibbert and especially Jon Wallace but I won't go there.

Jeff Green was the identity in a lot of ways last year. This year...it's whoever gets that defensive rebound, or forces that guard into a tough shot, or makes that key steal in crunch time, or blocks the final shot.

Will that get us to San Antonio? To Charlotte or Detroit? To the BET final? That remains to be seen.

So tomorrow's game will be a tough one, likely a defensive struggle if GU-Nova trends continue. Maybe that will play into our hands and Rivers will lock down Fisher on the final shot.

[RDF]

Feb 10, 2008 10:53:58 GMT -5 Filo said:

We all know RDF knows what he is talking about and has a good grasp for the games and current players. But here's the problem with his recent posts:

RDF says: This game is going to be real close and the Hoyas could lose because Nova has better guard play, etc.

Result 1: Hoyas lose. RDF is a genius.

Result 2: Hoyas get it together and trounce Nova. RDF is a genius because the Hoyas did what he said they had to do.

It's pretty easy to win arguments when you can do that. Just sayin'...

It's not about being right/wrong--it's about the fact of WHEN you address issues. It would be one thing if I was just harping on these issues after last night. I've been saying this all season and the lone response "We've ONLY LOST TWO GAMES". Well now we have 3 losses--and face a critical 3 game stretch to the season.

I just want to see good basketball and improvement. If Hoyas play a good game and Nova plays better--I won't say anything negative. If the Hoyas have Hibbert shooting 8-8 from field and shoot 2-25 from 3pt line then we've got some problems and the guards need to be criticized.

It's not being negative to say Corey Fisher will be the best guard on the court tomorrow--it's the truth. Kid is a wonderful talent and makes his team better by creating offense/setting them up for good looks. If Chris Wright were healthy--I'd say he'd have a chance to be the best guard on court tomorrow. He's not--so it's Fisher. Despite what some think--there is a reason some guys get highly recruited/receive attention--they can play! It's not as touching as a story of a kid developing into a contributor and not being highly thought of-but it's a story that leads to better play more often then not. Talent wins--and guys who can create opportunities and make their teammates better are better players.

[vcjack]

I've been expecting a battle, but I'm changing my mind and say we hurt them bad

They are a mess, rumors of lockeroom fights and transfers surround the program. They have struggled whenever they have faced a legitimate defense and had to battle it out with even the poor defensive teams.

I agree with much of RDF's analysis except for one aspect: our team does indeed have heart. They know they played badly yesterday and that they should have done better. I think we see an angry Hoya's team that wants to put the hurt on

Perhaps I'm wrong but that's my somewhat ignorant opinion.

[lichoya68]

i still think the key is two things we must hit shots at least SOME threes and second despite what youre saying in THIS game i think we need to hold reynolds 15 and under if he goes for 25 or thirty of which hes capable vs. us we lose go hoysa stop reynolds and hit some shots beat nova tommarrow FILL THE BOOTH THIS AINT NO GIMME COME ON STUDENTS COME OUT THIS IS IMPORTANT ITS FEBRUARY YUP RIGHT NOW MONEY TIME STOP REYNOLDS ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[regalmeans]

Email from athletics to students:

"Students, make sure to catch your Georgetown Hoyas in action on Monday night as they take on the Villanova Wildcats at 7pm. The game will be televised on ESPN BIG MONDAY, so we need to SHOW UP, STAND UP and SUPPORT OUR HOYAS!!!"

Here's hoping the students pack the lower bowl like we did against 'Cuse and relegate our latecomers to the upper deck (where they can taunt the Nova fans who will no doubt be up there!).

[RDF]

Feb 10, 2008 13:32:13 GMT -5 vcjack said:

I've been expecting a battle, but I'm changing my mind and say we hurt them bad

They are a mess, rumors of lockeroom fights and transfers surround the program. They have struggled whenever they have faced a legitimate defense and had to battle it out with even the poor defensive teams.

I agree with much of RDF's analysis except for one aspect: our team does indeed have heart. They know they played badly yesterday and that they should have done better. I think we see an angry Hoya's team that wants to put the hurt on

Perhaps I'm wrong but that's my somewhat ignorant opinion.

I think Hoyas have heart--I just dont' think they are playing intelligent basketball. Malcolm Grant might be leaving the team--and that is a huge help for Hoyas--that kid is a better player then Scotty Reynolds and Wright doesnt play him--due to his "allegiance" to Scotty--and word is they got into it. As I've always said--the best way to avoid controversy--play your best players--because kids understand when a kid is better then they are--when you are sitting behind someone who isn't as good--it leads to problems when team starts losing.

One frustrating thing--that moron Wright finally figured out to play Fisher at the PG spot and Reynolds off the ball. Of course he'd have to do this now--instead of waiting until AFTER he played GU.

[hoyabinx]

Feb 10, 2008 13:12:48 GMT -5 RDF said:

Feb 10, 2008 10:53:58 GMT -5 Filo said:

It's not being negative to say Corey Fisher will be the best guard on the court tomorrow--it's the truth. Kid is a wonderful talent and makes his team better by creating offense/setting them up for good looks. If Chris Wright were healthy--I'd say he'd have a chance to be the best guard on court tomorrow. He's not--so it's Fisher. Despite what some think--there is a reason some guys get highly recruited/receive attention--they can play! It's not as touching as a story of a kid developing into a contributor and not being highly thought of-but it's a story that leads to better play more often then not. Talent wins--and guys who can create opportunities and make their teammates better are better players.

Okay, so this post is pretty much why I always have problems taking your posts seriously. For two reasons, the first is that you are as easily enamored with opposing teams players as you are disgusted with ours. The second is that you LOVE the hype of freshmen and their potential while ignoring their on-court performance. Fisher is a good player for sure, and will only get better, but to say that he will be the best guard on the court is too much. It is not the truth.

sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=36123

He sets up his teammates? Yeah, he gets around 2 assists a game to his 2 turnovers, not that impressive. He shoots a pedestrian 39% from the field (37% from 3) and has under 2 boards a game, great.

To say he is the best on the floor is to by into his "hype" and not the actual court time. He WILL be a great player, right now he is a freshman and plays like it. He is terribly inconsistent-He scores 23 one game and 4 the next, 21 one game, 4 the next.

I have found over the last 6 months that you make the same mistake with Wright. He is a great talent but when he went down he was still playing like freshman. But you preach his accolades because he can make a few great drives, flashes of brilliance, and highlight plays while causally ignoring his terrible decisions and bad turnovers. Sure, our current guards make mistakes, but they also score efficiently (albeit not so much recently) without zazz and you focus on only the bad things. I am pumped about Wright's future but he was just a 7-9th type contributor, not the best guard on our team.

To say that Wright or Fisher would be the best guard on the court tomorrow would be a complete buy in to hype and potential and ignorance to actual performance on the court.

Jessie Sapp will be the best guard on the court tomorrow. He can hit outside shots, take it to the basket, and defend very well and has done so for 2 and a half years, and is doing so at a better rate this year than Fisher and Reynolds. Oh yeah, he has proven to be clutch time and time again, something Fisher has not.

So do me a favor and lay off the hype for a bit and use those glasses to examine all the players the same-ours, theirs, freshmen through seniors.


P.s.

sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=26964

Sapp gets more assists and rebounds in a slower paced game and shoots better as well. (3.6/2.6 ass/to)

[MassHoya]

Forget Louisville. It's done and over. We still owe these guys. Don't forget 1985. GO HOYAS!!! Beat the Cats.

[wildhoya]

Okay, so this post is pretty much why I always have problems taking your posts seriously

Tend to agree, hoyabinx.


Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.

Hoya saxa

[Hoya TMF]

Feb 10, 2008 13:12:48 GMT -5 RDF said:

Feb 10, 2008 10:53:58 GMT -5 Filo said:

It's not being negative to say Corey Fisher will be the best guard on the court tomorrow--it's the truth. Kid is a wonderful talent and makes his team better by creating offense/setting them up for good looks. If Chris Wright were healthy--I'd say he'd have a chance to be the best guard on court tomorrow. He's not--so it's Fisher. Despite what some think--there is a reason some guys get highly recruited/receive attention--they can play! It's not as touching as a story of a kid developing into a contributor and not being highly thought of-but it's a story that leads to better play more often then not. Talent wins--and guys who can create opportunities and make their teammates better are better players.

If Fisher is so good then why is Nova 4-6 in conference and a half game from not making the BET? I'm not trying to underestimate them, since it will be a tough game, but they have been very udnerwheling this year.