vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by vcjack on Jan 28, 2008 16:22:20 GMT -5
I agree that we haven't played to our potential and we witnessed that on Saturday, lots of wild passes, miscomunication, and slow rotation off of screens which left guys like Ruoff open far too much.
I'll be the optimist though and say that just means we haven't peaked yet (although with DaJuan's injury it might be some time before we see that potential)
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 28, 2008 16:57:06 GMT -5
win the next three and then get one in the Ville and we can make a claim to moving up. I am still counting on the late season surge of last year.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jan 28, 2008 17:08:31 GMT -5
Inclusion in Lunardi's "vegetarians" list is an interesting one, as six of those nine teams over #150 in the RPI are between 150-173, basically making almost all of them in the top half of the 341 Division 1 teams. It seems the sub-150 designation stems back to a few years ago when there really were just about 300 D-I teams. While our OOC schedule wasn't top-heavy by any means, it really wasn't filled with the MEAC teams and St. Leo's style cupcakes of years past. How interesting that, as of right now, #150 in College RPI is ... St. John's! Since the NCAA tourney remains at 65, a ranking of only the top 150 schools seems a reasonable metric. Because if you're contending for a spot in the NCAA tournament and you can't beat St. John's eight times out of 10 .... you're not really contending for a spot. Yes, there's a possibility that St. John's might win. But any legitimate NCAA team should buzzsaw the Red Storm. No, we're not playing the #250-ranked schools as often. But there's not a lot of difference for a team of Georgetown's caliber in playing St. John's versus playing Western Illinois. EDIT - Oh, and vcjack, I love that everyone (myself included) is in agreement that we haven't peaked yet when we're ranked #6 in the country and are in the pole position in the Big East. Hoya Saxa, indeed!
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 28, 2008 17:21:34 GMT -5
polls smools just need to win one by one BEAT THE JOHNNIES only one poll counts and thats after the season and we gotta keep on moving and play complete games yup do that roybeevenmuchmorecontinuallymuchmoremeaner and we will go onto the alamo GO HOYAS FLUSH THE JOHNNIES ON WED IN OUR OTHER HOUSE
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 28, 2008 17:22:17 GMT -5
AND I LIKE FIRST IN THE BIG EASY ALONE WITH ONE LOSS YUP THATS MUCH MORE IMPORTANT KEEP IT UP
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 28, 2008 18:02:55 GMT -5
And speaking of real contenders, other than Memphis, who have we played that's a real contender? Pitt?! You do realize that aside from the cap off of winning the BET last year, we already have a better resume than last season. People act like our Final Four resume include 7 wins over the top 10 teams in the country. I would venture to say that beating West Virginia at WVU was better than any road win we had for the entire year last year. What win was better? May be Louisville and Vandy? At the time we played both those teams, they werent nearly as good as they ended up. There is a reason we are #9 in the RPI. People need to start coming to terms with that fact that we are good....
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Post by vamosalaplaya on Jan 28, 2008 18:49:17 GMT -5
At this point in the season there is Kansas and Memphis, then there is a big group of teams that you can make a case for, probably 8-10 teams, then another stair down, and Georgetown is in the next bracket. But Georgetown's lack of an OOC resume in terms of big wins - unlike last year, GU"s OOC opponents aren't stepping up much in their conference play - will make the Big East season more important.
GU is way ahead of where they were a year ago this time, as Jook points out the WVa win was impressive. Looking back on how those teams did, beating Vandy, Lousville, and Villanova are probably as impressive from last year; last year GU kicked it into gear right around now.
But there are a few urban legends around JT III's tenure that keep popping up in these threads, among them the reference to the team getting better as the season goes on. Yes, if you count the whole season, that is true. But in both of JT III's first two years the Hoyas went through February swoons; they couldn't recover in time to make the tourney in his first year, and in his second, they did - but barely - remember the loss to 1-15 South Florida? The win they needed on Wednesday over ND to clinch the tourney? Yes, we all remember the Ohio State game in year 2 and the nice NIT run in year one, but in both those years the team had a lot of trouble in February.
My point being, it is a long season. Every year is different, and every group is different.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 28, 2008 19:07:48 GMT -5
I respect your opinion, vamos, but, in my estimation, the Big East is not only better this year, but all teams are coming to play against us. We arent sneaking up on anyone, so it doesnt surprise me to see us in slugfests against Syr, UConn, WVU, etc. People think those ugly games are a sign that we arent playing all that well, but I dont.
The other thing I take issue with is that many here are buying what the media is selling - that we are supposed to be more impressive because we went to the Final Four last year. No one talks about the ugliness of Tennessee losing to a horrible Kentucky team, or MSU's atrocious game against Iowa. But, somehow, because we didnt beat Memphis or Pitt, we arent all that good. Give me a break.
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royski
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Post by royski on Jan 28, 2008 19:09:29 GMT -5
Even though UCLA, a team that is STRIKINGLY similar to us preseason, final four team loses the conference POY, but may be better anyway, has its two losses at HOME, to much less impressive teams.
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brooklynhoya
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Post by brooklynhoya on Jan 28, 2008 19:22:32 GMT -5
The Big East is NOT better this year than last year- no way. 6 BE teams went to the tourney last year, and I think we send 5 this year. And the fact that everybody is beating up on each other and most teams are a game above .500 does not a solid, tough conference make.
I just feel we're supposed to be the team that showed up for a good part of the 1st half vs. Memphis and during the DePaul and ND games, and not the team that played Pitt, UConn, 'Cuse, WVA. And that's not to say that I don't think we're good- I do think we're good, but by this point last year we'd at least beaten 1 of the 3 ranked teams we'd played (not our current 0-2 vs. ranked teams), and that was when the BE had better teams, certainly fewer depleted teams like 'Cuse, Pitt and UConn currently are.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 28, 2008 19:33:29 GMT -5
11 of the 16 big east teams are in the top 61 of the RPI - at the end of last year there were only 7 in the top 50, with Syracuse at 50 and left out. I dont know what else to tell you.
That is only going to get better because the 11 of us will be playing each other. People say the PAC 10 is overwhelmingly the best conference. Well, 3 of those teams are in the 80s and 90s and OSU is 230-something.
This isnt an anomaly based on recent games, either. I made these points about the Big East during non-conference play. All teams scheduled tough games this season. People are biased because we didnt beat Memphis or because there werent any real marquee wins, but the yoeman's work in the Big East is reflected in the RPI rankings.
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Post by bmghoya on Jan 28, 2008 19:35:58 GMT -5
I would be stunned if the Big East did not send at least 6 teams this year, if only by default because the ACC, SEC, and Mid-Majors generally are down (for example, the Missouri Valley will probably be a 1 bid league). I think we are going to see a lot of teams sneak in that don't feel like tourney teams. The only league that seems clearly improved this year is the A-10, and the Pac-10 is the only league that really impresses me.
We certainly have room for improvement, but I will echo the thoughts of many others in wondering who is clearly better than us right now except Memphis, Kansas, and, as much as it pains me to say so, Duke.
I think the tenor of this and many other threads is due to an underappreciation of our defense - we are winning games this year with defense as much if not more so than offense, which is inherently less appealing and leads people (I include myself here) to underestimate a team's quality.
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brooklynhoya
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Post by brooklynhoya on Jan 28, 2008 19:50:29 GMT -5
Our defense is unquestionably great, as it traditionally has been, and is what has gotten us to where we are now. I would have no problem proclaiming us a top 5 team, even if our offensive output wasn't better than it is now, but I have just seen better ballhandling, passing and rebounding from us last year than this year, and certainly have seen enough teams performing better in those areas this year to make me fret over our run come NCAA tourney time.
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brooklynhoya
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Post by brooklynhoya on Jan 28, 2008 19:58:15 GMT -5
One more thing- I had us over UNC in my bracket last year, even though I felt we were a clear underdog then; at that point, I could at least visualize us beating UNC with the team we had then. This year, I simply can't see us beating any of the teams currently ranked ahead of us, and I see quite a few teams ranked behind us giving us fits.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 28, 2008 20:21:27 GMT -5
Brooklyn you're the only person i've seen this year to claim the big east is down. I think it's a pretty defined fact that the Big East is better all around. BE will get anywhere between 7-9 seeds. you're entitled to your opinion but i don't think you'll find many people to agree with your assertion that the BE is down.
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Madgesdiq
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Post by Madgesdiq on Jan 28, 2008 20:22:56 GMT -5
The Big East is NOT better this year than last year- no way. 6 BE teams went to the tourney last year, and I think we send 5 this year. I think the BE is sending 8 this year. Conference is incredibly strong. See depleted UCONN handle Indiana comfortably on the road.
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Jan 28, 2008 20:36:50 GMT -5
I think the reason people feel the conference is down this year is because we dont have multiple teams in the Top 10 like in previous seasons. When people see Uconn and Nova both in the Top 5 like a few years ago they think they Big East is automatically great. While I will admit those were some very good teams, I think the Big East is better from top to bottom now. There may not be as many dominant teams at the top, but there are a lot of really good teams throughout the conference, by that I mean top 50 type teams.
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Post by vamosalaplaya on Jan 28, 2008 21:46:54 GMT -5
A look at the final Pomeroy ratings from last season and comparing them to the current Big East Pomeroy ratings indicates the Big East is a bit deeper this year than it was last year. I think wild cards in terms of NCAA bids remain Cincy, Providence, DePaul, and Seton Hall, all of whom can clearly beat top Big East teams but may play the role of spoilers more than anything this year.
WVU was a really nice win, and the ND and UConn wins are looking much better in the last week. So the team is doing fine, and there are examples of other top 10 teams who have laid some eggs and Georgetown's two losses are very respectable. But I have to say that I can't get all worked up about a poster who declares that GU should be ranked behind Tennessee - who played a mini-murderer's row out of conference - or a few other top ten teams that perhaps have beaten a stronger team than GU has. You really can't take GU's resume and declare they are a definitive top 5 team at this point. Not that it really matters in late January anyway.
I hate Duke; that said, they belong by themselves a notch below Memphis and Kansas right now. The results speak for themselves. Since their OT loss to Pitt they haven't played a game that has gone down to the last possession and they clubbed a bunch of quality teams out of conference.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Jan 28, 2008 22:00:04 GMT -5
GUHoya is right on. The league is better from top to bottom. And it makes it tougher to run up a gaudy record. Last year we played a bunch of teams that rolled over and died as soon as the tip was over. There will probably be less of that this year. Just look at the attrition so far.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 28, 2008 22:14:39 GMT -5
The league is much better this year. There really isn't any argument from my point of view.
Also, Florida hasn't beaten anyone good. Their only win is Vanderbilt. Vanderbilt is a total fraud.
UConn and Mississippi State and USC need to be up there. Teams like Vanderbilt and Villanova are not worthy.
And I really can't see how Georgetown is not in the second tier behind Memphis and Kansas.
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