theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jan 28, 2008 13:42:01 GMT -5
I was thinking of the Michigan State that only lost to UCLA by 5, beat BYU and Texas, and the Tenn. team that beat Xavier, Gonzaga, Ole Miss, and Vandy (by 20). I could also make an argument that Texas is better than us, but I figured that'd be pushing it. Our game with Memphis only convinces me that we can compete with a top 5 team for exactly 1 half of basketball and the loss to Pitt doesn't convince me that we can defeat any ranked teams. You're either a troll or even more of a pessimist than I am. Let's break this down. sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/schedule?teamId=127 has MSU's schedule. They have two wins by more than six (albeit their last two games). One was Northwestern, who is really really bad this season. The other is against Michigan, whom the Hoyas buried early. Nonconference, they have a good win over Texas. Aside from that, they barely edged an OK Missouri team and Oakland. Georgetown has one loss to the #1 team in the country on the road - a team currently undefeated and 19-0, with only three wins by ten points or less. MSU lost at home to the then-#1 team in the country, who is slowly coming back to earth. Georgetown also lost at Pitt, a school that is among the upper crust of programs in the country and which almost never loses at home. MSU scored 36 in losing at Iowa, whose coach escaped when they disappointed yet again. On to Texas, who has a loss to MSU, a loss at home against a Wisconsin squad that's on the fringe of the Top 25, and a 13-point loss at Mizzou. They are 5-3 in their last eight and barely edged Colorado and Oklahoma State, whom no one is talking about as potential NCAA tournament teams. Those wins against Tennessee and UCLA are looking far away in the distance. Georgetown has a dominating win over Notre Dame, currently on the fringe of the Top 25. Really, I don't get the logic.
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hoyasexy
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Post by hoyasexy on Jan 28, 2008 13:43:52 GMT -5
A CRAP conference whose 3 ranked teams are overall ranked higher than the identical number of ranked BE teams You are using teams' rankings to support your conclusion that rankings are flawed?
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hoyasexy
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Post by hoyasexy on Jan 28, 2008 13:47:02 GMT -5
I'm pulling for a Duke win(s) over UNC this year. Would love for Duke to stay inflated in the rankings, ensuring a lower (#2) seed for UNC in the tourney. That way, UNC won't be in our bracket (I think we're a #2 seed too), and Duke will get upset in or before the Sweet 16. And to make it even more interesting, if it plays out like that, chances are pretty good that we would be the #2 in the East, where the #1 would be Duke. How fun would that be?
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Post by williambraskyiii on Jan 28, 2008 13:49:40 GMT -5
I'm pulling for a Duke win(s) over UNC this year. Would love for Duke to stay inflated in the rankings, ensuring a lower (#2) seed for UNC in the tourney. That way, UNC won't be in our bracket (I think we're a #2 seed too), and Duke will get upset in or before the Sweet 16. And to make it even more interesting, if it plays out like that, chances are pretty good that we would be the #2 in the East, where the #1 would be Duke. How fun would that be? Answer: really, really fun.
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Post by Hoya TMF on Jan 28, 2008 13:52:46 GMT -5
i think this ranking is definitely accurate. we seem to be more critical of our team than we are of others. michigan state and tennessee are not better than us at all. we haven't played our best, but they lost to iowa and kentucky respectively. the teams we've lost to are both still ranked and pitt has remained ranked for the last three weeks in spite of losing two of their best players. memphis is obviously #1 in the land. our rpi is great too. why shouldn't we be ranked this high?
is anyone else really annoyed with duke's ranking? it's hard to argue their record, but seriously, the acc is terrible. none of their teams are ranked after duke and unc, and the rest of the league is stunningly mediocre. i think that there are only four teams that could beat us on a neutral court, and they are all ranked ahead of us (and we know that list does not include duke).
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HoNYaSaxa
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Post by HoNYaSaxa on Jan 28, 2008 13:52:49 GMT -5
And to make it even more interesting, if it plays out like that, chances are pretty good that we would be the #2 in the East, where the #1 would be Duke. How fun would that be? Answer: really, really fun. I'm going to start praying for this now, every single day (this and for DaJuan's ankle and Chris's foot to heal).
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jan 28, 2008 13:53:09 GMT -5
This is all pointless. Look, there's only one thing that matters, and we all know what that one thing is. Where does Joe Lunardi rank us? sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bracketologyThou shalt not make wrongful use of the name of Joe Lunardi, for Joe Lunardi will not acquit anyone who misuses his name!
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jan 28, 2008 13:58:18 GMT -5
Answer: really, really fun. I'm going to start praying for this now, every single day (this and for DaJuan's ankle and Chris's foot to heal). Be careful what you pray for. In 1996, everyone on campus wanted to be in UMass' bracket. They were convinced we matched up well and that Camby was overrated. We get who we get.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 28, 2008 13:58:58 GMT -5
On florida I should have clarified, I'm not surprised their rank, more surrprised they went from ARV all the way to 19th. top 25 yes, top 20 not yet. only 2-2 in road games. Only good win was the last one. they've played an incredibly weak schedule.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Jan 28, 2008 14:07:20 GMT -5
On florida I should have clarified, I'm not surprised their rank, more surrprised they went from ARV all the way to 19th. top 25 yes, top 20 not yet. only 2-2 in road games. Only good win was the last one. they've played an incredibly weak schedule. I'm not going to argue with you, and to continue along the thoughts others were making, the key is really road games. Let's face it: for the most part the all the good teams pretty much hold serve at home. The elite teams distinguish themselves by winning games on the road. Florida has wins over a weak South Carolina team and an underachieving Alabama team, but also came within a eyelash of beating a quality Ole Miss team. Let's just hope this is must a stepping stone.
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Post by hoyaparanoia33 on Jan 28, 2008 14:29:09 GMT -5
We're a low Top-25 team for the first 35 minutes of a game and a Top 5 team for the last 5 minutes. We are number one team in nation in last five minutes. No question about it. The only two games we lost were already a little out of reach by the end. But, if the game is still in the balance, I'll take GU over any team in the country every day of the week. You saw how UNC played against MD in the clutch. This Hoya team is guts. When the offensive problem get ironed out, and we have a month to do it, we will be very tough to beat.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 28, 2008 14:34:41 GMT -5
I'm going to start praying for this now, every single day (this and for DaJuan's ankle and Chris's foot to heal). Be careful what you pray for. In 1996, everyone on campus wanted to be in UMass' bracket. They were convinced we matched up well and that Camby was overrated. We get who we get. Actually, I was hoping for the Purdue/Kansas bracket. As it turns out, that would've been a good bracket to be in.
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brooklynhoya
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Post by brooklynhoya on Jan 28, 2008 14:45:27 GMT -5
To theexorcist's and hoyasexy's points: given my labels as either troll or pessimist, I'll go with pessimist. Michigan State and Tennessee have better SOS and RPI than we do. Period. They're both better than top 50 opposition than we are, which speaks volumes for the NCAA tourney. If someone is going to counter-argue that the Big Ten sucks, then yeah, I'll say the BE isn't much better this year, and is certainly down from last year. And yes, in that instance, I'll use the rankings of those teams to show that we are over-ranked and underachieving this year. I don't really care if you're not convinced, but as much as I love our team, we're not on the same level as a lot of our ranked competition, we aren't better than last year's team, and we certainly haven't lived up to the hype and expectations heaped upon us preseason. And it's all well and good to be great at the end of a game, but not so good when, for most of too many games, the team plays sloppily.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Jan 28, 2008 14:47:35 GMT -5
This is all pointless. Look, there's only one thing that matters, and we all know what that one thing is. Where does Joe Lunardi rank us? sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bracketologyThou shalt not make wrongful use of the name of Joe Lunardi, for Joe Lunardi will not acquit anyone who misuses his name!looking through his categories, GU shows up a couple of times: QUALITY WINS (vs. InsideRPI Top 50)Memphis (6-0) North Carolina (6-0) Tennessee (6-1) Xavier (5-1) Kansas (4-0) Michigan State (4-1) Georgetown (4-2) VEGETARIANS (vs. InsideRPI sub-150)Florida (11-0) BYU (11-0) Arizona State (10-1) Washington State (10-0) Georgetown (9-0) ROAD (+NEUTRAL) WARRIORSButler (11-2) North Carolina (10-0) Memphis (8-0) UCLA (8-0) Duke (8-1) Washington State (7-1) Kansas (6-0) Tennessee (6-2) Georgetown (6-2)
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brooklynhoya
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Post by brooklynhoya on Jan 28, 2008 14:55:03 GMT -5
Ultimately, I really just want to see this team play up to the level it's capable of, which, other than in spurts here and there, it really hasn't. Are we one of the country's best teams? Yes. Are we a lock for at least a 2 seed and a certainty for the Final Four? As of our play to date, absolutely not.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jan 28, 2008 15:07:37 GMT -5
No one is a lock for the final four. No one's a lock for a #2 seed this early on.
In terms of your concern, Georgetown always plays better later. Even at this point, however, I don't see nine other teams that are better than Georgetown.
There's a lot of basketball yet to be played, but the Hoyas look well-positioned.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jan 28, 2008 15:15:03 GMT -5
Ultimately, I really just want to see this team play up to the level it's capable of, which, other than in spurts here and there, it really hasn't. Are we one of the country's best teams? Yes. Are we a lock for at least a 2 seed and a certainty for the Final Four? As of our play to date, absolutely not. But, as lic would say, it is not February yet (ok, he would ask if it were February yet).
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 28, 2008 15:27:44 GMT -5
Guru who'd you put ahead of us? Agreed. Guru, you can't just say something like that without any specifics. Maybe this team is flawed and inconsistent, but every team is. We are very talented and incredibly tough. We certainly can compete with the top 5 teams ahead of us in this week's poll. And I don't think there's any team below us that would beat us in a 3 game set on a neutral site. Sorry - been offline for a while. I agree that we are a talented team with a big upside. That said, I would be nervous playing any of the teams listed in that top 25 on a neutral floor - I don't think the Hoyas are demonstrably better than any of them at the moment. Seems to me that after the very top tier (memphis, kansas, ucla, duke) there is a large group of teams that right now, it's hard to get a handle on. I think we fall in that group.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jan 28, 2008 15:30:50 GMT -5
Florida has to be ranked by now. They schooled Vandy yesterday. I hope, for the Big East's sake, UConn cracks next week. They are playing great ball right now and their only "bad" loss was to Providence. It's also interesting to look at all of the big east teams receiving votes. We have: #27 UConn #28 ND #32 Nova #33 WV #34 Louisville That's 1/2 our conference in the top 35 True, but Villanova looks like a fraud at the moment. They'll be a bubble team at best come a month from now. UConn and Louisville are on the rise. Thank goodness we got the Huskies out of the way early - have a feeling that might be our Saturday night matchup at MSG this year.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Jan 28, 2008 16:16:29 GMT -5
Inclusion in Lunardi's "vegetarians" list is an interesting one, as six of those nine teams over #150 in the RPI are between 150-173, basically making almost all of them in the top half of the 341 Division 1 teams.
It seems the sub-150 designation stems back to a few years ago when there really were just about 300 D-I teams. While our OOC schedule wasn't top-heavy by any means, it really wasn't filled with the MEAC teams and St. Leo's style cupcakes of years past.
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