calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 15, 2008 8:19:25 GMT -5
I am not worried about the guard play. Wallace has three years of history to prove that he can score and Sapp is a great defender and a slasher on offense. Rivers defense is solid and although we are not the quickest group in the world, it should be good enough against most teams. If and when we get Wright back the guards will be as good as any team in the Big East.
Don't have the same confidence underneath. Hibbert won the game against the Huskies, but I thought that he was too passive for long stretches, particularly with his offensive moves around the basket. Summers is not a natural power forward, Freeman should be a shooting guard and Ewing is all energy all the time, but not a natural power forward either. Seems to me what is missing is that prototype banger who can come in and just dominate on the boards. Calling Vernorn Macklin!!
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hoyafoeva
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Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 15, 2008 9:13:55 GMT -5
Did you watch this game or the UConn game? Did you see the DePaul game...that was the best game we've played all year long especially the execution and smart guard play on behalf of Austin Freeman to Roy...What kind of basketball do they play in Cali...We are talking Big East basketball, no guard penetration or dishes, bad decision on behalf of the point guard...low IQ on behalf of guard play tonight. As far as Roy, he definitely is not the blame...Dajuan did not step up no slashes to the basket...all they was shooot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot shoot and shot themselves in the foot because they played selfish, unsmart basketball
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2008 9:21:19 GMT -5
The problem is two-fold.
Roy is too passive at times and doesn't physically assert position in the post, but at times the guards/forwards do a TERRIBLE job of getting him the ball in the post when he's establishing position.
Freeman did a good job on entry passes last night, I thought. He looks as though he knows how to work angles, help Roy work the man he's posting up, etc. At other times (and this has been going on for two years or so), the guys wait a split second too long to toss it inside... which gives the defender on Roy just enough time to work around him for the deflection.
I'm not worried about guard play. I'm not worried about Roy. I'm worried about the two coming together and functioning as one on a consistent, night-in/night-out basis. Like I and many others said in the offseason when many were quick to dismiss the huge hole left by Green's departure, this offense needs SEVERAL players to step up BIG TIME and develop parts of their game that heretofore weren't at the level needed to win the Big East, the BET, and advance to the Final Four.
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PopeJohn2
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Jan 15, 2008 9:34:19 GMT -5
problem last nite was 3 point shooting. it highlights our lack of other offensive options. the 3 point shot has an will be a key component of our offense until such time as we develop other offenseive weapons. hibbert is a good but is not enough to bring us over the hump when our 3 point shooting is cold.
1. big teams can check hibbert with size and small teams can double/triple team him.
2. the inability of our players to dribble penetrate (we need wright) makes us dependent on 3 point shot
3. the absence of a consistent scoring frontcourt threat (calling on summers) makes us dependent on 3 point shot.
4. we dont have a replacement for green to make a key back door pass, etc.
we really need to develop other offensive weapons in case hibbert and our shooters have an off nite.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 15, 2008 10:09:07 GMT -5
Agree with your overall point at the end, but the ingredients to fix what went wrong on the team are already there:
1. true - need to adjust to whatever happens
2. while Wright would help, Sapp, Summers, Freeman, and Ewing can all penetrate - they need to do so more often to vary the offensive attack
3. needs work but will come, Macklin showed signs of being that guy last night
4. Summers had a couple of really nice ones last night, Ewing frequently does as well. Not worried about this in the long run.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 15, 2008 10:33:08 GMT -5
Hoyafoeva, if Wright was playing the Hoyas guard situation would be a major strength. There are so many parts that it is ridiculous--Wright, Sapp, Wallace, Rivers and Freeman. Some bad decisions last night, but that is the exception not the norm. Travel back in time and see what was the missing ingredient that finally led to the Hoyas' national championship--it was a beast named Graham and it is exactly what this team does not have, but what I would hope that Macklin could become. I wonder if Thompson would ever try a lineup with Macklin and Hibbert and Summers, along with Sapp, Freeman, and Wallace rotating at the guards. I have not seen them go that big just yet.
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HealyHoya
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Post by HealyHoya on Jan 15, 2008 10:37:42 GMT -5
7-20 from 3 and we beat the #16 team in the country on their incredibly challenging home court and sit at 4-0, undefeated and alone atop the BE. 7-20. we lost because we shot poorly. it happens. there is no problem with the post or guards. they will improve. 7-20 from 3 wins this game. there aren't many "conclusions" one can take from this game other than that.
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PopeJohn2
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Jan 15, 2008 10:54:25 GMT -5
yes our guys can dribble penetrate. even i can dribble penetrate. but the question is do we have guys that can do it at a high enough level to establish us as a top 5 team?
im not so sure. no one has demonstrated a quick enough first step, with control and the jumping and finishing ability. i think summers has difficulty finishing at times. i think wright can develop it. but he is injured atm.
im pretty certain iii recognizes this and is trying to address it thru recruiting as well as structuring the offense around hibbert and 3s for the time being.
if we hit our 3s like we normally do, we win last nite. so this is not critical to our success, but is makes hitting our 3s critical. last year we went thru spurts where we shot horribly from long range.
just my $0.02.
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Post by jimbones on Jan 15, 2008 11:22:47 GMT -5
I would hope that JTIII would try a lineup that includes Macklin at forward to keep the opposition off the offensive boards. But I'm not worried by this loss. Don't forget how tough Pitt is to beat at home.
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hoyafoeva
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Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 15, 2008 11:25:40 GMT -5
The problem is two-fold. Roy is too passive at times and doesn't physically assert position in the post, but at times the guards/forwards do a TERRIBLE job of getting him the ball in the post when he's establishing position. Freeman did a good job on entry passes last night, I thought. He looks as though he knows how to work angles, help Roy work the man he's posting up, etc. At other times (and this has been going on for two years or so), the guys wait a split second too long to toss it inside... which gives the defender on Roy just enough time to work around him for the deflection. I'm not worried about guard play. I'm not worried about Roy. I'm worried about the two coming together and functioning as one on a consistent, night-in/night-out basis. Like I and many others said in the offseason when many were quick to dismiss the huge hole left by Green's departure, this offense needs SEVERAL players to step up BIG TIME and develop parts of their game that heretofore weren't at the level needed to win the Big East, the BET, and advance to the Final Four. Roy is in position in the post and everyone in America knows that now. He's not getting the ball enough consistently, bottom line. I don't know what games some people are watching, but obviously its not the same game and Im sure some would agree. My bad, I didn't read your last sentence, but you have to make up your mind. It has nothing do with being passive, it has everything to do with our guard play, and shooting too many darn 3'sssss and relying on those. You just can't do it, not us, we have too many bigs.
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hoyafoeva
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Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 15, 2008 11:37:59 GMT -5
Hoyafoeva, if Wright was playing the Hoyas guard situation would be a major strength. There are so many parts that it is ridiculous--Wright, Sapp, Wallace, Rivers and Freeman. Some bad decisions last night, but that is the exception not the norm. Travel back in time and see what was the missing ingredient that finally led to the Hoyas' national championship--it was a beast named Graham and it is exactly what this team does not have, but what I would hope that Macklin could become. I wonder if Thompson would ever try a lineup with Macklin and Hibbert and Summers, along with Sapp, Freeman, and Wallace rotating at the guards. I have not seen them go that big just yet. Believe me, I know about the past, and I do know about Graham. That is then, this is now, we run a complete different system, but the fact still remains. We need to play smart, unselfish basketball. We have more than enough bigs and weapons. We might now have Michael Graham the beast, but we do have beasts they just have to play the game right, thats all. Remember when MG was playing like that the media was saying how we were too physical and we were the bad boys of college basketball, and how Big John only recruited ghetto kids, remember that? I don't know how we got on missing ingredients because we have the missing ingredients for this team, its just being poured in the pot on a nightly basis, therefore, the food is not done, you feel me?
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hoyafoeva
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Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 15, 2008 11:40:23 GMT -5
7-20 from 3 and we beat the #16 team in the country on their incredibly challenging home court and sit at 4-0, undefeated and alone atop the BE. 7-20. we lost because we shot poorly. it happens. there is no problem with the post or guards. they will improve. 7-20 from 3 wins this game. there aren't many "conclusions" one can take from this game other than that. We had no business shooting poorly if we would've played our game, inside, out, I don't know how times to say it, but obviously some basketball knowledge is lacking here. When you don't do the right things, everything else fails.
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hoyafoeva
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Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 15, 2008 11:42:21 GMT -5
yes our guys can dribble penetrate. even i can dribble penetrate. but the question is do we have guys that can do it at a high enough level to establish us as a top 5 team? im not so sure. no one has demonstrated a quick enough first step, with control and the jumping and finishing ability. i think summers has difficulty finishing at times. i think wright can develop it. but he is injured atm. im pretty certain iii recognizes this and is trying to address it thru recruiting as well as structuring the offense around hibbert and 3s for the time being. if we hit our 3s like we normally do, we win last nite. so this is not critical to our success, but is makes hitting our 3s critical. last year we went thru spurts where we shot horribly from long range. just my $0.02. Cool, its all about heart when you're trying to get into the gut of the defense, all about heart, you have be tough natured to do that and to do it at will. That's what Chris does best is get in the gut of the defense and does his thing, he's been doing it all of his life, I will keep praying for Chris' return, although I pray for everyone, Im talking of Chris' healing.
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hoyafoeva
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Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 15, 2008 11:48:12 GMT -5
I'm not worried about the loss because the Big East is the Big East and we were on the road, but those are the games you have to win in a hostile environment and we didnt and that hurts especially during conference play.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 15, 2008 11:58:43 GMT -5
7-20 from 3 and we beat the #16 team in the country on their incredibly challenging home court and sit at 4-0, undefeated and alone atop the BE. 7-20. we lost because we shot poorly. it happens. there is no problem with the post or guards. they will improve. 7-20 from 3 wins this game. there aren't many "conclusions" one can take from this game other than that. Bingo. We're not going to go undefeated in BE play. This game, at Marquette, at WVU, at Cuse are all games we might not even be favored in. We shoot normally, we win. I thought our balance was fine -- we're good enough shooters that you don't abandon it.
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Post by strummer8526 on Jan 15, 2008 12:01:59 GMT -5
5 posts all in a row in 23 minutes. But how do you feel about Roy?
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Jan 15, 2008 12:39:31 GMT -5
There are 3 players on this team with post-up games: Hibbert, Macklin and Freeman. The problem with Macklin is that his game is just not that good (other than last night). Ewing and Summers simply don't feature the post-up game within their skill set.
I'd love to see us post up Freeman more against guards or small forwards that might be defending him. He can score against them in the paint I think. Problem is if there is a taller guy defending him.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jan 15, 2008 13:50:10 GMT -5
I've read a few posts by Hoyafoeva and think he make some good points--but one thing I'll address that I believe he needs to understand--the reason Vernon gets ball immediately--his athleticism allows him to beat his man down the court and get quick post position-something Roy physically is incapable of doing. I love Hibbert--he's a kid who has given everything he's got--but you can only change so much of what God gave you--and while he's vastly improved--Vernon can outrun him and most bigs--so it allows him to beat them to spot and set up good post position, giving the passer easier opportunity to feed him.
When Roy does get in there--they'll give him ball-but he's often bumped off cuts and last night he was often off balance. I thought Roy got plenty of touches--and so did Vernon--I just think Vernon was more of a tough cover for Blair due to his quickness in post.
Which leads to the fact I really believe that with increased talent/depth on this team--III has to coach more of a matchup type of lineup then sticking to "set group". For instance--Macklin should play WITH Roy against the teams like Pitt/UConn who have size/physical style of play--and it allows Roy to not have to leave hoop on defensive end. Vernon is outstanding at chasing/hedging--and closing out on shooters defensively. Roy being near rim at least allows him to do what he does best on defense-where he's not a great defender--but his size matters/gives him better opportunity to rebound.
Against Nova/Marquette--our regular lineup works just fine.
The thing is--with more players--it's a great thing to use entire roster--and some nights where guys are "off"--why not stick with who is playing effectively? Last night Tyler Crawford was exactly the type of kid we needed on court--and look how game changed. I would've ridden that group a little longer and rewarded them for their effort last night.
There is a lot of trust built up from the corps group-and that is understandable--but in course of a brutal 18 game league schedule--sometimes you have to let the hot hand ride it out and see if they can get it done--that helps a lot more down the road and last year it was Ewing's breakout game in loss at Pitt and Jeff's returned aggression that lit a fire into the team. I'm hoping we can all turn to last night's game and say Vernon Macklin became a key factor in his Hoya career based on that performance. I know he didn't get a rebound--but he was active/positive on court. He was closing out on guys, hustling, keeping plays alive, and scoring. Made a beautiful pass to Tyler for 2 FT's and just helped the team a great deal.
I'm a Macklin fan--and believe in him a great deal. I think he's capable of being a kid who will eventually be a deciding factor in Big East and NCAA play this year--and just hope it happens for him now that he has some confidence. As Bilas said-he's NOT Roy--he's a different style of player and yet that doesn't mean he's not a positive for the team. Just think his pedigree in HS blew expectations out of water--and last night was an example of what he can do that adds to team--energy/quickness and once game got more uptempo--Hoyas owned the game--made a big run and it was with speed/quickness on court.
Every season/game takes on it's own "life" and III needs to realize some nights--go with the hot hand and alter the offensive approach/lineup to fit what is working--which last night was uptempo/speed lineup who bothered Pitt on defensive end and CREATED easy offense/was more focused on getting higher percentage shots and more importantly moved the ball to open man for best shot.
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hoyafoeva
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Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 15, 2008 14:22:24 GMT -5
7-20 from 3 and we beat the #16 team in the country on their incredibly challenging home court and sit at 4-0, undefeated and alone atop the BE. 7-20. we lost because we shot poorly. it happens. there is no problem with the post or guards. they will improve. 7-20 from 3 wins this game. there aren't many "conclusions" one can take from this game other than that. Bingo. We're not going to go undefeated in BE play. This game, at Marquette, at WVU, at Cuse are all games we might not even be favored in. We shoot normally, we win. I thought our balance was fine -- we're good enough shooters that you don't abandon it. Of course I didn't think we would go undefeated in Big East, but I didn't think we'd beat ourselves either. Not taking anything away from PITT, they beat us fair and square. Our balance was not fine, it was off, way off, we lost so how can you say our balance was fine, please explain, I must be missing something. Of course you don't abandon shooting because thats what the game is all about, but good shooting, knowing when to shoot and not to shoot the rock that's the key. Common sense would tell any player if the jumper is not falling, attack the rim, get in the paint and score or get fouled and go to the line and make one or two or maybe three.
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hoyafoeva
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Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 15, 2008 14:28:19 GMT -5
5 posts all in a row in 23 minutes. But how do you feel about Roy? Good student, good person, and good basketball player. A boy, to a young man, to a man after graduation. He has matured into a man now.
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