hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
|
Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 16, 2008 13:33:37 GMT -5
- So, err, how do you explain this?
Roy Hibbert is taking a larger percentage of the team's shots while he is in than last year -- 25% to 23% -- and last year's team went to the Final Four. Just so you know.
Using FGA per game is collosally pointless. First, you're ignoring every time Roy gets fouled, which Roy does at a pretty good rate. For example, he didn't take 7 shots against Pitt -- he took ten.
Just so you know -- 14 FGA per game with Roy is probably 18 or so shots. A couple of those would probably due to offensive boards -- so call it 16 shots ending a possessions. We average 62 possessions per game and turn the ball over on 18% of those - call that 11 possessions. Roy's playing 61% of our minutes, so of those 53 possessions that end with a shot, Roy's in for 32 of them. So Roy is supposed to take the shot in 16 of the 32 possessions that end in a shot?
Just trying to make sure what you are advocating. Because no player, ever, on any good team, has taken 50% of his team's shots. 40% is the absolute limit of a player, but none of those teams are very good. Kevin Durant was at 34% of his team's shots.
- I love Roy, but people need to get over his shooting % and get over the idea he's anywhere near the scorer a Kevin Durant was. Roy shoots so well because he limits himself. He waits for good position, rarely to never shoots over a double team and gets lots of dunks and easy baskets off offensive rebounding.
Could Roy get more shots? Sure, but it isn't this huge gap like you are trying to put forward like he should be shooting 16 times a game. If he took a shot or two more he'd be over 30% of the shots. It's an adjustment at most, not this catstrophic fatal flaw like you are painting.
- I also don't get your argument at all that we're losing the open guys off Roy's double teams -- we had them all freaking game, we just missed the shots? So let me ask you also, do you want him shooting over the doubles or passing?
- I respond with this ranking again: even after collosally bad shooting, our offense is in the Top 10 in both raw and adjusted offense.
- Lastly, I guarantee the Hoyatalk board from January had a thousand posts saying we were overrated and had no shot to do well in the tourney. One of these years you might even be right.
To make a long story short and you cannot base play on stats for one all the time, if our guards do not do a better job at playing smart, intelligent, unselfish, basketball and work inside, out we not go anywhere, thats what we're trying to get at here, just as plain and simple...just my opinion
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Jan 16, 2008 14:22:58 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Jessie/Jon--but from what I've seen in the last 3 games--they played one good game together--DePaul--and other two were substandard to awful in terms of doing what is expected of a veteran backcourt.
Hoyafoeva is correct about Wright/Freeman's basketball IQ and right now Freeman is best player on team in terms of feeding the post. He does intelligent things that most don't understand--in DePaul game--he gets board--is going on a break--sees GU doesn't have numbers and fan dribbles out to 3pt line to give Roy space to post up--feeds post and it results in a layup. Our veteran guards haven't done that--they've been playing hot potato a lot in backcourt and doing the hesitation fakes up top and hoisting up too many questionable shots. More importantly the passing has been shaky--and decision making overall. When you have two smart/intelligent players who are proven winners you expect them to grow as players and not need time to get into the groove--and it's time to step up--right now.
Some get offended when you talk up youngsters--and I understand why--they take it as an insult to guys who have done things/been here. It's not to be taken that way--it's just a matter of pointing out--the more talented you are--less learning curve you need and some things are already taken care of-for instance Chris Wright would've been hell for UConn/Pitt guards to deal with--he'd have really ragged the ball on defensive end and he's a much smarter/better guard then many think. I think Georgetown's best zone offense has happened with he and Freeman on court together--they really move the ball--understand where ball has to go and the ball moves quickly.
It's not that Wallace/Sapp are incapable--it's just they need to be reminded--and after watching tape of last 2 games--this has to be corrected quickly--no way will ND not zone GU--Harangody can't handle Roy man up--and we know Cuse plays zone--so it's time for upperclassmen in backcourt to show more production and leadership. If someone is lost on offense/defense get on their butts--it's not time to be nice--don't have time.
|
|
hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
|
Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 16, 2008 16:07:41 GMT -5
I'm a fan of Jessie/Jon--but from what I've seen in the last 3 games--they played one good game together--DePaul--and other two were substandard to awful in terms of doing what is expected of a veteran backcourt. Hoyafoeva is correct about Wright/Freeman's basketball IQ and right now Freeman is best player on team in terms of feeding the post. He does intelligent things that most don't understand--in DePaul game--he gets board--is going on a break--sees GU doesn't have numbers and fan dribbles out to 3pt line to give Roy space to post up--feeds post and it results in a layup. Our veteran guards haven't done that--they've been playing hot potato a lot in backcourt and doing the hesitation fakes up top and hoisting up too many questionable shots. More importantly the passing has been shaky--and decision making overall. When you have two smart/intelligent players who are proven winners you expect them to grow as players and not need time to get into the groove--and it's time to step up--right now. Some get offended when you talk up youngsters--and I understand why--they take it as an insult to guys who have done things/been here. It's not to be taken that way--it's just a matter of pointing out--the more talented you are--less learning curve you need and some things are already taken care of-for instance Chris Wright would've been hell for UConn/Pitt guards to deal with--he'd have really ragged the ball on defensive end and he's a much smarter/better guard then many think. I think Georgetown's best zone offense has happened with he and Freeman on court together--they really move the ball--understand where ball has to go and the ball moves quickly. It's not that Wallace/Sapp are incapable--it's just they need to be reminded--and after watching tape of last 2 games--this has to be corrected quickly--no way will ND not zone GU--Harangody can't handle Roy man up--and we know Cuse plays zone--so it's time for upperclassmen in backcourt to show more production and leadership. If someone is lost on offense/defense get on their butts--it's not time to be nice--don't have time. Correct, Wallace and Sapp are capable, as long as they within themselves, lol. I like when they do play with poise, they look good when they play with poise, knowing what to do it, when to do it, is what really matters with those two guys.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,743
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 16, 2008 16:14:04 GMT -5
I think it is great to talk up youngsters, but most people here do it by insulting veterans.
Talk up the youngsters all you want. But people shouldn't ignore Wallace/Sapp's incredible play in last year's tournament when comparing them -- these guys have 3/4 years of experience and people are judging based on the last 3/4 games.
Furthermore, while I have all the hopes in the world for Chris, and I'm sure he does a lot of little things I miss, he has hasn't exactly been mental mistake free so far. Now he's a freshman, so that's alright, but talking up your BBIQ versus, say, Wallace, needs to take into account that Chris makes his fair share of turnovers and bad shots.
|
|
hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
|
Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 16, 2008 16:14:04 GMT -5
SF, Your post is too objective and analytical. And need I point out that quality is better than quantity. Impossible for them to coexist. BTW, does anyone know if there’s a “self internal” variety of jealousy? Lolllllllllllll..lmao...I'm not saying a word! thats my story and im sticking to it
|
|
hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
|
Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 16, 2008 16:19:19 GMT -5
SF - almost everything in the universe is complicated to some extent and this is as well. That said, the primary problem is getting Roy the ball. Sometimes it's not even a matter of the right time or not. Sometimes he's in the same spot posted up for 3 seconds straight with the guard looking at him and still doesn't pass it. Sure we'll still lose every now and again and will have other things needing fixing. But addressing the primary problem is key. We're not great at entry passes. That's obvious. BUT sometimes I think people ignore that Roy, even at 7'2", isn't the easiest target. He can be fronted well because he isn't much of a jumper and quicker players -- like Blair -- force a decent amount of turnovers on entry passes. Can we go down to Roy more? Sure. 14 FGA a game? No one wins with that lack of balance. Roy draws a decent number of fouls, but I doubt this is true. More likely, they'd front him or double him and pressure the passer and half the time the pass wouldn't be open. Also, like against Pitt, when the game gets rough, Roy isn't drawing the fouls at the same rate. Again, same as above, plus, if this is true, why doesn't UCLA do this with Kevin Love (less % of shots than Roy), UNC with Tyler Hansbrough (YEP, less % of shots than Roy), Indiana with DJ White (less), Pitt with DeJuan Blair (less)... need I go on? Balance is key. I agree we need to go to Roy a bit more. But Roy also needs to go up when he is single covered more. But it is HIM choosing not to shoot. III is not going to yell at him for shooting that shot.
|
|
hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
|
Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 16, 2008 16:21:57 GMT -5
When SF breaks out the bullet points, you know you are in for a world of hurt... You better duck, fo sho!!!! LMAO
|
|
hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
|
Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 16, 2008 17:29:46 GMT -5
I'm not worried about the loss because the Big East is the Big East and we were on the road, but those are the games you have to win in a hostile environment and we didnt and that hurts especially during conference play. keep in mind pitt is depleted without fields and cook. we coulda shoulda beat a team like that even on the road if we expect to go far. i think it just shows how awesome freshman blair is. can u say nba? Blair is really tough, needs to work on midrange, prolly i dont know
|
|
hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
|
Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 16, 2008 18:08:20 GMT -5
I think it is great to talk up youngsters, but most people here do it by insulting veterans. Talk up the youngsters all you want. But people shouldn't ignore Wallace/Sapp's incredible play in last year's tournament when comparing them -- these guys have 3/4 years of experience and people are judging based on the last 3/4 games. Furthermore, while I have all the hopes in the world for Chris, and I'm sure he does a lot of little things I miss, he has hasn't exactly been mental mistake free so far. Now he's a freshman, so that's alright, but talking up your BBIQ versus, say, Wallace, needs to take into account that Chris makes his fair share of turnovers and bad shots. No one man is perfect, but Chris is an All-American, not just a freshman...believe me if he started especially with Austin you would see holy hell, but Wallace and Sapp have earned the right, and as said have to play for keeps and thats a hard thing to do with Austin and Chris. We pray for Lumpy's return, but he must take care of himself first and foremost. There's no rush for the healing.
|
|
hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,652
|
Post by hoyaLS05 on Jan 16, 2008 18:25:09 GMT -5
That Chris is an All-American is irrelevant now; I do not know why you need to keep bringing it up every time we discuss his playing time/role on the team. He was really good in high school. We know that. That is why he was a McD All-American. But that has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING on how well he has played this year either in a vacuum or compared to Jon and Jessie. Can we look at what he has done when he's been on the court instead of some award he won last year?
Plus, Chris is so obviously gifted physically, he could have been an All-American based on that alone. One could be a McD A-A with a low basketball IQ just because of physical gifts. Just because he was an All-American does not mean he is ready to run a team and make the many decisions that come with running our offense.
Now I am not saying Chris isn't bright or doesn't have a high basketball IQ or that he shouldn't get substantial playing time. What I am saying is that I advise dropping the "All-American" argument. That was high school. It is irrelevant now.
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on Jan 16, 2008 19:32:24 GMT -5
Has there "eva" been a thread where one person posted so many times?
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,209
|
Post by hoyarooter on Jan 16, 2008 21:15:03 GMT -5
Has there "eva" been a thread where one person posted so many times? hifi probably has 15 consecutive posts somewhere.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,546
|
Post by DanMcQ on Jan 16, 2008 22:47:10 GMT -5
That may be, but lic can post in more consecutive threads at the same time than any other poster.
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,393
|
Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 17, 2008 12:02:38 GMT -5
Has there "eva" been a thread where one person posted so many times? Yes. My guess is that "eva" is the new and improved '08 version of 80's.
|
|
hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
|
Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 18, 2008 4:32:46 GMT -5
If I can summarize (and correct me if I am wrong hoyafoeva), it's a little bit of everything. It's not just inability to get Roy the ball at the right time. Although that is a problem, it's more complicated than that. It's a team game, and only a few of the guys were ready to play heads up ball on either end when the game started. Some adjusted, others did not. The coach said the team was flat - I would agree with that. SF - almost everything in the universe is complicated to some extent and this is as well. That said, the primary problem is getting Roy the ball. Sometimes it's not even a matter of the right time or not. Sometimes he's in the same spot posted up for 3 seconds straight with the guard looking at him and still doesn't pass it. Sure we'll still lose every now and again and will have other things needing fixing. But addressing the primary problem is key. One other note. If we went to Roy every time down the court almost without fail, I bet we could (a) foul out the other team's center a large percentage of the time, at which point Roy would probably have a cakewalk - as most teams don't have a good or tall backup, and (b) we'd reach the double bonus with a lot of minutes remaining each half and rack up points for free (if we shoot 70% from the line, that's 20 percent higher than from the field) even on ticky tack fouls on other teams, or offensive fouls. In close games, this many times decides games especially in the final minutes - one team getting lots of free throws and the other team not. Sure there might be some games we don't do that for certain reasons, but right now we almost never do that or even come close. 8 shots per game is tiny. Consider in this game he got just 7 shots but I think got to the line 7 times. If he got double the number of shots, we would have had even more FTs. Besides the benefit of this, our offense runs great through Roy and we get more open outside looks. And the other benefits above. EXACTTTTTLLLYYYY, you go inside he either gets fouled or makes the deuce most of the time...he goes to the free throw line many times per game, opposing team in serious foul trouble near the end of the game, just like you said their big man will foul out...lol...you add that and what he's been doing, woww man, then you would see some good, smart, intelligent basketball.
|
|
hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
|
Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 18, 2008 4:39:37 GMT -5
That Chris is an All-American is irrelevant now; I do not know why you need to keep bringing it up every time we discuss his playing time/role on the team. He was really good in high school. We know that. That is why he was a McD All-American. But that has ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING on how well he has played this year either in a vacuum or compared to Jon and Jessie. Can we look at what he has done when he's been on the court instead of some award he won last year? Plus, Chris is so obviously gifted physically, he could have been an All-American based on that alone. One could be a McD A-A with a low basketball IQ just because of physical gifts. Just because he was an All-American does not mean he is ready to run a team and make the many decisions that come with running our offense. Now I am not saying Chris isn't bright or doesn't have a high basketball IQ or that he shouldn't get substantial playing time. What I am saying is that I advise dropping the "All-American" argument. That was high school. It is irrelevant now. Just my opinion, sir...lets talk about what you know, just my opinion, sirrrr...lol Chris, All-American, its the truth and always will be sooooooooooo go figure...Get well Lumpy!
|
|
hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
|
Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 18, 2008 4:40:51 GMT -5
Has there "eva" been a thread where one person posted so many times? LMAOOOOOOOOOFF
|
|
hoyafoeva
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 750
|
Post by hoyafoeva on Jan 18, 2008 4:42:51 GMT -5
Has there "eva" been a thread where one person posted so many times? Yes. My guess is that "eva" is the new and improved '08 version of 80's. HOYADONTUFOGETIT HOW BOUT THAT ONE...EVA
|
|