FOTP
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Post by FOTP on Jan 17, 2005 20:27:51 GMT -5
Very good point. I agree that if we can't get an impact guy then it would be great to have him back for a year.
I just want to give him the option at this point. It's tough for Owens, but he'll have to understand.
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Simian Prime
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It rubs the lotion on its skin, or else it gets the hose again. --- J. Gumm
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Post by Simian Prime on Jan 17, 2005 20:54:03 GMT -5
I've just heard that he won't be back.
I also think that JT3 also has the ability to find really good players, players that will fit very well into his program, that others don't see.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jan 17, 2005 20:57:49 GMT -5
Let's leave this discussion for after the season, when the decision is most likely to be made ultimately. DJ deserves our support this season in the worst way, and I don't think it adds anything to have a discussion about whether or not he should or will be back next season.
I am pleased by his seeming resurgence in the PrinceTown offense and hope that he's able to tickle the nylon in the Dome tomorrow.
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 17, 2005 21:08:26 GMT -5
Second that Jersey. Good advice.
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Jan 17, 2005 21:57:46 GMT -5
Let's leave this discussion for after the season, when the decision is most likely to be made ultimately. DJ deserves our support this season in the worst way, and I don't think it adds anything to have a discussion about whether or not he should or will be back next season. I am pleased by his seeming resurgence in the PrinceTown offense and hope that he's able to tickle the nylon in the Dome tomorrow. Actually I would guess that decision will be made before the season ends, assuming it hasn't been made already. Traditionally at the final home game the departing seniors are acknowledged and honored. Any seniors that will be returning to the team the following season are not honored with the others.
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Jan 17, 2005 22:07:22 GMT -5
Yeah, so basically at the Providence game we will find out whether DJ is coming back. If RaMell is the only player honored then DJ's got another year.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 17, 2005 22:54:04 GMT -5
GUys - Let's not get clouded by a couple of decent games off the bench by Owens. What you fail to mention is that last season Owens (with the exception of a couple of games) disappeared during Big East play. This year he has been a factor in all four Big East games which suggests that he'll keep it up the rest of the way. Also lets not forget that Owens has ALWAYS been a good shooter for this team; he's consistent on that front. And if he is not around next season then the Hoyas lose their one player with length who can hit the three pointer with regularity. If you saw the big clutch threes he made in the second half against Rutgers and Pitt over the defense then it becomes obvious how important it is to have such a tall wing with shooting ability like that. And then there is the fact that he always has a fantastic assist to turnover ratio and can actually put the ball on the floor when driving. Oh, and of course unlike freshmen next season he will have experience playing in the Big East and in JT3's offense. That suggests that he is a guy you would want to bring back unless GU can get some stud player during the late signing period. But if instead GU says goodbye to DJ and brings in some frosh who has "potential" but won't get off the bench for two years (either because of ability or because the coach wants to play only 7 or 8 players) that would simply be a waste.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 17, 2005 22:59:17 GMT -5
I think MCI is right here- if you aren't bringing Owens back b/c you are replacing him w/ a stud, that's fine. If you aren't bringing him back and replacing him w/ another Giubunda or Crawford, that's not really worth it in my opinion. There aren't a lot of studs left, so personally, I'd rather save the scholarship for 2006. That and to be realisitic, next year is the best chance for the Hoyas to go to the tournament in my 4 years on campus (not counting Sweets last year) and I'd rather see Owens in his 4th year at Gtown and 2nd in JT3's offense than some freshman holding down the schollie who isn't going to contribute to making the tournament for a year or two. yeah, it's selfish, but it's also what would be best for 2005-06
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Mar 4, 2005 16:19:58 GMT -5
I don't have any inside knowledge of how these things work, but it seems to be this decision should be left to one person: DJ Owens. When a player commits to a school, the school also commits to that player for his four years of eligibility. It's not like Owens entering a graduate program is a tough thing: both Freeman and Jameel Watkins have recently gone that route. Georgetown yanking his scholarship would effectively throw Owens off the team, and I can't see how that would be good for the program.
Consider the following: You take a semester off of school the first semester of your senior year due to illness/death in the family/whatever. Upon your return, Georgetown says: your GPA is 2.8, and we really don't feel you're living up to your potential. The reputation of the Walsh School of Foreign Service would be better served by not allowing you to re-enter school and admitting some really smart transfer student.
This example is somewhat dispositive of Owen's situation if you take into account the fact he's graduating. But let's be realistic, folks. Most basketball players want a degree, but playing four years of basketball at Georgetown is the opportunity of a lifetime for most of these guys. Georgetown shouldn't deny Owens that opportunity if he wants it.
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FOTP
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Post by FOTP on Mar 4, 2005 16:24:39 GMT -5
I agree with the last part, but put a different spin on it. DJ will already have his degree. I don't think the basketball program has an obligation once you graduate. At that point it's a pure basketball question.
We're not talking about throwing DJ out of school. He'll have a very valuable degree that was paid for in its entirety by Georgetown and the basketball program. Not bad at all.
Once again, I'd love to have him back all things being equal, but if we can get a kid of better talent to come in I'm all for it.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Mar 4, 2005 16:28:40 GMT -5
I don't have any inside knowledge of how these things work, but it seems to be this decision should be left to one person: DJ Owens. When a player commits to a school, the school also commits to that player for his four years of eligibility. It's not like Owens entering a graduate program is a tough thing: both Freeman and Jameel Watkins have recently gone that route. Georgetown yanking his scholarship would effectively throw Owens off the team, and I can't see how that would be good for the program, I completely disagree that there is any obligation on the part of the team to bring DJ back. His not qualifying was due to his own preparation, not Georgetown holding him back. And Georgetown has given him a four-year free education. I think DJ has been a net positive (though disappearing at times throughout his career), but I don't think by any means that he should be in the driver's seat in this position. It's not like he was medically red-shirted or kept off the team by a coach's decision...
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FOTP
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Post by FOTP on Mar 4, 2005 16:34:38 GMT -5
I agree completely THB. DJ got a full scholarship and support for a year (Freshman) without playing basketball (which is obviously the reason why we'd do that). He's gotten a pretty good deal in my book.
This is not to dismiss DJ at all. I just think JTIII has the call on this one completely. If he wants him back then great. If not I won't lose sleep over it.
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FOTP
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Post by FOTP on Mar 4, 2005 16:44:07 GMT -5
I've been really curious about this for awhile and I just went onto the NCAA.org website to see what the rules were for athletic scholarships. www1.ncaa.org/membership/membership_svcs/eligibility-recruiting/faqs/nli_financial_aid.html#renewal_nonrenewalThis is interesting. THe way I read this is that you don't get a 4 year scholarship at all when you sign on to a school. Now you can't just yank a scholarship in mid year or semester, but it's up to teh school to renew a scholarship at the end of the school year. So...in theory JTIII could say that a scholarship won't be renewed after the year is over. Now I know this would cause some issues, but at the end of the day the coach decides... I think this is the way to read this...
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 4, 2005 16:48:50 GMT -5
I've been really curious about this for awhile and I just went onto the NCAA.org website to see what the rules were for athletic scholarships. www1.ncaa.org/membership/membership_svcs/eligibility-recruiting/faqs/nli_financial_aid.html#renewal_nonrenewalThis is interesting. THe way I read this is that you don't get a 4 year scholarship at all when you sign on to a school. Now you can't just yank a scholarship in mid year or semester, but it's up to teh school to renew a scholarship at the end of the school year. So...in theory JTIII could say that a scholarship won't be renewed after the year is over. Now I know this would cause some issues, but at the end of the day the coach decides... I think this is the way to read this... All athletic scholarships are for one year. I think the point someone was trying to make is that I doubt that's the way it was presented to DJ or most other scholarship players -- I do not think coaches tell players before they sign that if they find a better option, they'll pull the scholarship. That said, DJ's in a different situation, given he's graduating. Hopefully, it works out well for everyone involved. Before this season started, I expected a lot of player movement this off-season. That hasn't really changed, though I'm not really sure who.
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FOTP
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Post by FOTP on Mar 4, 2005 16:52:43 GMT -5
I totally agree. "Movement" is a good term.
THis whole thing is murky. Part of me (ok most of me) says that JTIII should have full autonomy to bring him his kids no matter what the consequences to the current kids. However, I also know this is both unfair and very dangerous in terms of reputation.
You don't want to be known as a coach that pulls scholarships.
As usual...I blame everything on Esherick ;D
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Mar 4, 2005 16:53:56 GMT -5
I also think a coach would have a hard time getting anyone to play him if he regularly pulled the scholarships of players who weren't special and unique cases.
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SoCalHoya
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Post by SoCalHoya on Mar 4, 2005 17:17:34 GMT -5
Don't most big-time programs pull scholarships for mediocre 5th year students? If anything, I think we're well on the side of being overly generous with keeping players for a fifth year. I think DJ does a pretty good job! I think it is right that JT III ultimately makes the decision. He has to look out for the best interests of the Hilltop.
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Post by Fan Of The Game on Mar 4, 2005 17:25:28 GMT -5
Yeah, I wasn't referring to us getting a bed rep for pulling Owens' scholarship. I was saying JTIII would get a bad rep if he pulled ones like...let's say (just for this example) Ray Reed. While you might be "allowed" to pull scholarships of under-performers, I wouldn't make it a habit.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Mar 4, 2005 17:53:08 GMT -5
In the NBA, the GM of each team finds the best players to put on the floor. The GM is constricted in his decision making by contractual obligations between the club and the players.
In college basketball, there is no such position and there are no contractual obligations. The relationship between school and player is instead governed by moral and ethical considerations.
Georgetown's primary purpose is to ensure a quality education for all of its students. Georgetown feels a moral obligation to do so, but there is a practical reason for doing so as well. A first-class education allows graduates the best possible chance of succeeding in life, thereby increasing the prestige (and hopefully endowment) of the University.
Students understand this, too. Who would shell out $30,000+/semester if a Georgetown education didn't produce results in the practical sense?
With athletes, there is another component to the equation. Basketball/lacrosse/track stars come to Georgetown from around the nation because doing so will not only provide them with a quality education but, because of the reputation of these programs, allow them the chance to compete on the highest level. This is important to these kids.
When Daryl Owens committed to Georgetown, I think he was promised this opportunity by the University. Daryl Owens did not know he'd be academically ineligible for his first season. There is no evidence he did not try to get himself eligible. Should Georgetown take away part of its promise to any player because he missed a couple of questions on his SATs?
FOTP and THB suggest there are two answers to that general question. If a player is peforming at a high level, he should be permitted to stay. If he is not, he should be asked to leave the program.
And why should he be asked to leave? So an unproven recruit can have a shot. But what if that recruit is an Anthony Perry-style bust? Then you've sold out Daryl Owens, who will leave Georgetown with a sour taste in his mouth, and you've potentially poisoned the recruiting atmosphere (opposing coaches may point out to recruits GU doesn't honor its commitments) and the team atmosphere (maybe Crawford and Wallace look up to DJ and want him back next season).
All I'm saying is this discussion needs to be about more that "what will our record be next season if Owens leaves/doesn't leave." The conversation also needs to include what is fair to everyone involved. Owens has already shown good faith by staying at GU during/after the Esherick debacle, when many left. I don't think cutting him loose based on box scores should be such an easy decision.
And I don't buy the "Owens got a free education for his first year" argument. Owens got that first year based on his commitment to the University, not his performance/nonperformance on the basketball court.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 4, 2005 18:15:10 GMT -5
Interestingly enough, Anthony Perry did not get a fifth year, either.
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