RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Aug 24, 2006 17:19:41 GMT -5
RDF, again you make some good points and I don't mean to imply that FSU was some powerhouse, just that it was a very quality win. As for Leak we just agree to disagree, but I totally understand much or your criticisms. The single biggest complaint I would have were the handful of times where he voluntarily went down or out of bounds when he could have had the first down. I honestly hope that that is a thing of the past. And I think it will. As far as throwing the football he is extremely talented. As far as taking care of the ball, whether he gets the credit or the coaching staff does, I am not sure. But they took care of the football on offense and forced turnovers on defense. We led the SEC in turnover margin and were in the top ten nationally in that stat. Leak makes good decisions and doesn't generally force the ball. You just conveniently omit the tremendous difficulty that comes with adapting to a new system. His overall production and execution has been good. And like I said, his performance late in the close games has been solid, from his first game as a freshman when he led us to a comeback victory over Kentucky of all people, to last year's Georgia game where he executed the gameplan to perfection. Also as a freshman he nearly led us to a game winning drive in hostile Miami, but unfortunately "almost" isn't quite the same as actually doing it. Still he has done an admirable job in a very tough situation. As for this apparent attitude which you see in him in the off season, I can honestly say that I don't. And I promise you I am not looking through any tinted goggles. As far as personnel goes, Nelson has blown a coverage here and there as well as missed a tackle or two. I am not sure what DBs haven't but he came on late last year and all the reports are how much more solid and consistent he is. I agree that I will reserve judgement until he puts the whole package together. As for Joe Cohen, I don't think it is as much "hype" as it is a combination of nagging injuries and lack of focus. After a decorated high school career, he was a "can't miss prospect who played FB and DL in high school. They bounced him back and forth from offense to defense for a while and right when he started getting the hang on the defensive side, he got hurt. I think he was less than 100% the whole next year. He has really hit the weight room hard this off season and looks like a different person. He is BIG but in a good way. I am hoping for the breakout season everyone predicted for him from the start. As for Meyer's criticisms of the players, I am in the minority I guess. I appreciate coaches who tell it like it is. That doesn't mean you intentionally make it some kind of personal attack, but I am not a person who thinks everything stays behind closed doors. Lastly, as for my optimism, we can only say that time will tell. I honestly do think that we will have a great year. I see a 9-3 or 10-2 record. Heading into the season, I would see us losing at Auburn and then either at FSU or to Georgia in Jax. I don't think we lose a game at home, but LSU should be the biggest test. Byt the way, the bet offer is still out there. I'll take 9-3 or better and you have 7-5 or worse, with 8-4 being a push. Well?[/quote If you understand English, I said I'll stick with the 5 losses. Bet is simple and if UF Football loses 5 games, you agree to NEVER POST HERE AGAIN, if they do better, then you can post here. Take it or leave it. We'll see if you believe in Leak enough to take that bet--and if Tebow replaces Leak--you are banned for life. (unless it's by injury) As for FSU game--how is that a "respectable/quality win"? I'm ashamed of Miami for losing to FSU and even playing that poorly in a game they should've rolled in. You are touting this as a "quality win"? I know they are your rival, but that was a terrible FSU team that got what it deserved--UF didn't do a thing special that Clemson didn't do to them week before. I laugh at people who think guys change because they are "SR's" or have shown maturity in offseason. What you do in GAMES is what counts and all that matters. If a guy is a Edited for 3 years and plays scared, why will that change as a SR? Leadership is proven on the field by performance--not talking. You run out of bounds or slide short of a 1st Down, that is speaking to what you are as a player/person more then talking about things in offseason when you aren't between the lines. Telling it like it is means you accept blame too--not call out College kids on a Coaches Show as if your team failed you--you failed them too--it's a "WE" thing in sports all of the time, not just in victory. If you have fans, they know/can see who screwed up and you are trying to develop kids/teach them how to play/improve--as men and athletes. How doe ridicule for a bad performance while absolving yourself from the defeat teach a lesson? These aren't professional athletes, they are kids, many of whom aren't going to play beyond their years in Gainesville. Have no problem with you being optimistic--fans have that right and should. The problem Meyer's going to run into at UF that he didn't have to deal with at Utah is that offense showcases the QB and kids who are recruited at RB/WR don't come to UF to block/watch QB's run/scramble around--which is what Tebow does. If you win, no issues at all, but if you lose, the murmurs grow and everyone wonders why an offense that has talent is just watching the QB run the ball, not enough footballs for everyone to be happy. That's why many Coaches prefer passing QB/balanced offenses over the "Spread" which is successful and used because it's great for less talented teams to operate. If you have talent, you want to spread the ball around--not the formation so 1/2 guys do everything.
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miamihoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by miamihoya on Aug 24, 2006 17:21:35 GMT -5
I think you pretty much summed up the sitution perferctly. It is a change of attitude and aura that has occured in recent years that is most troubling bout the 'Canes. This is no longer the intimidating, hated team that it once was. I always love hearing about how former 'Canes come back every offseason to workout with the team and how they always continue to be proud about playing at the U. That kind of fraternal attitude doesnt seem to be there anymore. Your right about Hester, he never seemed to care about how Miami did. He was only out to improve his status as a NFL prospect (something which he didnt really accomplish). Again, I hate criticizing a guy beause he is a "good guy" and nice, but maybe that is one of Coker's greatest fault in the end.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Aug 24, 2006 18:42:52 GMT -5
5. The reason Coker's record is so great--the talent that was recruited by Pete Garcia and Butch Davis--Coker players are guys who are at the "U" to try and get to the NFL, Butch/Garcia players were at Miami to dominate, win titles, and knew they'd get to the NFL after accomplishing things at Miami. I think the media and the popular conception of the Miami football program have to share some of the blame with Larry Coker here. Every year I hear some announcer say: "Well, some people say there's not any tradition at Miami, but the real tradition in Coral Gables is sending so many talented players on to success in the National Football League." One hears less and less the other old Miami stock phrase, "The real tradition in Coral Gables is winning." One has to wonder though: were the glory days of Miami football actually built on team play and focus on the TEAM winning championships? Or were those years built on changing the way college football is played and attracting the top talent in the nation? If the answer is the latter, how does Coker emphasize team priorities now?
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Aug 24, 2006 19:01:42 GMT -5
"Re-claimed the Swamp". If Florida football aspires to the dominance of defeating the worst Tennessee/FSU teams in the last 15 years, and squeaking one out over Vandy in OT, then I'm just glad that as a Miami fan that type of standard is seen as FAILURE. It's very fitting that UF's only Championship came due to other teams bailing their failure out--losing to a less talented FSU team in '96-- and that sums up Florida football. Their kids aren't tough, they are mentally fragile and when I think of Gator football I think of Leak--he's poster boy for what they are all about. Or Chad Jackson's "slide" in the Peach Bowl--only time in history of the game I've seen a WR slide short of 1st Down and not clock related--just afraid of getting hit. Urban Meyer is a clown and his offense is not going to work against teams with speed--they are too horizontal and don't attack up the field enough. Leak is the worst QB you could get to run this system and while Tebow is better, the OL UF has is garbage and their defense is notoriously awful and not tough enough--mentally or physically. I see 5 losses for the Gators and that is if they play to their expectations. Amen to that, RDF. The hubris of the U. Florida fans is amazing considering their program has been, and will continue to be, #3 in the state FOREVER. Quick, name a decade in which Florida won more national championships than Miami and FSU. Name an SEC championship that Florida, SEC member since 1933, won while someone not named Spurrier was coaching. Name a school with a more retarded football cheer than that "Go! Gators!" crap. RDF has this program pegged right. Its achievements have always been overstated, and the Urban Myth Offense is not taking it further than the Outback/Peach bowl again in 2006.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Aug 24, 2006 19:36:48 GMT -5
Austin, the players who helped shape the recent dominant Miami teams weren't highly thought of by gurus--so they worked hard and just happened to be many times more talented then guys ranked ahead of them. Sean Taylor was 1 Star recruit, Reggie Wayne had nobody after him, Santana Moss is another guy nobody wanted, Clinton Portis was from Gainesville and unwanted by Spurrier, Edgerrin James, Bryant McKinnie, Ken Dorsey, Kellen Winslow, Dan Morgan, Jonathan Vilma, Ed Reed, Phillip Buchanon, Jeremy Shockey, etc.........so you can see that rankings meant little to the Coaches in terms of recruiting and seeing talent. Some of those guys weren't on title teams, but they helped get UM back on top.
The last couple of years, they have had Hamburger All Americans and those guys have been busts or expected things handed to them.
Miami always has talent-but it's the guys who view Miami as a program that is about winning that made it--these current guys view it as a step to NFL and don't do what it takes to win.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Aug 24, 2006 23:25:43 GMT -5
Austin, the players who helped shape the recent dominant Miami teams weren't highly thought of by gurus--so they worked hard and just happened to be many times more talented then guys ranked ahead of them. Sean Taylor was 1 Star recruit, Reggie Wayne had nobody after him, Santana Moss is another guy nobody wanted, Clinton Portis was from Gainesville and unwanted by Spurrier, Edgerrin James, Bryant McKinnie, Ken Dorsey, Kellen Winslow, Dan Morgan, Jonathan Vilma, Ed Reed, Phillip Buchanon, Jeremy Shockey, etc.........so you can see that rankings meant little to the Coaches in terms of recruiting and seeing talent. Some of those guys weren't on title teams, but they helped get UM back on top. The last couple of years, they have had Hamburger All Americans and those guys have been busts or expected things handed to them. Miami always has talent-but it's the guys who view Miami as a program that is about winning that made it--these current guys view it as a step to NFL and don't do what it takes to win. I see. Guess my refusal to pay attention to recruiting shows. Guess these issues arise at most big programs, though. I'm thinking particularly of a certain golden boy QB from New Jersey who set the Texas program back after "winning" the starting job away from Major Applewhite. Surprising to hear some of those Miami players were not highly recruited and perhaps that's more support for your post above on CFB recruiting.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 25, 2006 11:04:09 GMT -5
RDF wrote:
If you understand English, I said I'll stick with the 5 losses. Bet is simple and if UF Football loses 5 games, you agree to NEVER POST HERE AGAIN, if they do better, then you can post here. Take it or leave it. We'll see if you believe in Leak enough to take that bet--and if Tebow replaces Leak--you are banned for life. (unless it's by injury)
As for FSU game--how is that a "respectable/quality win"? I'm ashamed of Miami for losing to FSU and even playing that poorly in a game they should've rolled in. You are touting this as a "quality win"? I know they are your rival, but that was a terrible FSU team that got what it deserved--UF didn't do a thing special that Clemson didn't do to them week before.
I laugh at people who think guys change because they are "SR's" or have shown maturity in offseason. What you do in GAMES is what counts and all that matters. If a guy is a Edited for 3 years and plays scared, why will that change as a SR? Leadership is proven on the field by performance--not talking. You run out of bounds or slide short of a 1st Down, that is speaking to what you are as a player/person more then talking about things in offseason when you aren't between the lines.
Telling it like it is means you accept blame too--not call out College kids on a Coaches Show as if your team failed you--you failed them too--it's a "WE" thing in sports all of the time, not just in victory. If you have fans, they know/can see who screwed up and you are trying to develop kids/teach them how to play/improve--as men and athletes. How doe ridicule for a bad performance while absolving yourself from the defeat teach a lesson? These aren't professional athletes, they are kids, many of whom aren't going to play beyond their years in Gainesville.
Have no problem with you being optimistic--fans have that right and should.
The problem Meyer's going to run into at UF that he didn't have to deal with at Utah is that offense showcases the QB and kids who are recruited at RB/WR don't come to UF to block/watch QB's run/scramble around--which is what Tebow does. If you win, no issues at all, but if you lose, the murmurs grow and everyone wonders why an offense that has talent is just watching the QB run the ball, not enough footballs for everyone to be happy. That's why many Coaches prefer passing QB/balanced offenses over the "Spread" which is successful and used because it's great for less talented teams to operate. If you have talent, you want to spread the ball around--not the formation so 1/2 guys do everything.
Let's break it down:
If you understand English, I said I'll stick with the 5 losses. Bet is simple and if UF Football loses 5 games, you agree to NEVER POST HERE AGAIN, if they do better, then you can post here. Take it or leave it.
Well, there isn't really much in that for me now is there. I mean I can post now anyway. But since I am such a good sport you are on. I say Florida will finish no worse than 8-4, although I honestly think 9-3 or even 10-2 are more likely. So there you have it. Elvis, Buff and all the other GU guys who dislike me just because I am a Gator now have a "dog in the fight."
As for FSU game--how is that a "respectable/quality win"? I'm ashamed of Miami for losing to FSU and even playing that poorly in a game they should've rolled in. You are touting this as a "quality win"? I know they are your rival, but that was a terrible FSU team that got what it deserved--
Come on, stop kidding yourself. FSU beats Miami (blah, they shouldn't have this that or the other) ... they beat Va. Tech (they were overrated this that or the other) and FSU should have beaten Penn St. were it not for a missed extra point and two field goals in overtime. And we beat them 34-7 with them ovly avoiding a shutout with a trash time TD at the end of the game. You can't have it both ways. Miami was a good team that "should've" beaten FSU ... which was a terrible team ... which beat a highly ranked V.Tech team ... which was overrated. Come on, even you aren't that dense.
I laugh at people who think guys change because they are "SR's" or have shown maturity in offseason. What you do in GAMES is what counts and all that matters. If a guy is a Edited for 3 years and plays scared, why will that change as a SR? Leadership is proven on the field by performance--not talking. You run out of bounds or slide short of a 1st Down, that is speaking to what you are as a player/person more then talking about things in offseason when you aren't between the lines.
Pretty much agree with most of that. Generally coach-speak is that sort of thing. I have already admitted my disgust with coming up short multiple times. We'll see if it continues. And yes, it is about what you do on the field. But you seem to be neglecting the multitude of good things Leak has done on the field.
Telling it like it is means you accept blame too--not call out College kids on a Coaches Show as if your team failed you--you failed them too--it's a "WE" thing in sports all of the time, not just in victory. If you have fans, they know/can see who screwed up and you are trying to develop kids/teach them how to play/improve--as men and athletes. How doe ridicule for a bad performance while absolving yourself from the defeat teach a lesson? These aren't professional athletes, they are kids, many of whom aren't going to play beyond their years in Gainesville.
Fundamental disagreement here. I have no problem pointing out mistakes in public at times. I honestly don't remember the particular comments to which you are referring, so I can't say whether I agree with them in particular, but again, I think many times these kids are treated too "special." Also, I have never heard Meyer suggest anything other than it being a "we" approach anyhow. Although in fairness, that is pretty much true of all coaches.
The problem Meyer's going to run into at UF that he didn't have to deal with at Utah is that offense showcases the QB and kids who are recruited at RB/WR don't come to UF to block/watch QB's run/scramble around--which is what Tebow does. If you win, no issues at all, but if you lose, the murmurs grow and everyone wonders why an offense that has talent is just watching the QB run the ball, not enough footballs for everyone to be happy. That's why many Coaches prefer passing QB/balanced offenses over the "Spread" which is successful and used because it's great for less talented teams to operate. If you have talent, you want to spread the ball around--not the formation so 1/2 guys do everything.
Could be, only time will tell. Once again, I am very optimistic about this season, but yours is not the only criticisms/concerns which I have heard of Leak. And if he struggles then I have no doubt that we will see some of Tebow. As to the spread, I think you are selling it short. In a sense all offensive schemes are to play to your strength. Is a wishbone team to be belittled because they don't throw the ball? No, that's what they do -- run the ball. Is the "west coast" short passing game a cop out offense for undertalented teams? Some would suggest that since they don't line up and come straight at you. Was the Fun n Gun offense a quirky system meant to mask inferior athletes? NO.
The point is that all offenses are designed to matchup your players with theirs in the most advantageous situation. Spurrier wanted to get that WR vs an LB. That was his key. Switzer at Oklahoma wanted to get his blockers on your tacklers and then let the QB decide whether to make one guy miss or to let the running back make one guy miss. Meyer's spread is designed to get as many different playmakers on the field at the same time and then develop different ways to get them the ball. Again he wants to match his fast guy up with your slow one.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Aug 25, 2006 12:33:29 GMT -5
Oh, boy, now we all have a reason to root against the Florida football team. Go, Tennessee! C'mon, LSU! Fight, Georgia, fight! Etc. ;D
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Aug 25, 2006 12:39:14 GMT -5
How is calling the last year's Miami team the worst since probation saying "Miami was good and should've won"--it's a FACT if you watched last year's FSU game, it was a terribly played game by two of the worst FSU/Miami teams in years and yet Miami still should've won the game easily--that's not a compliment to Miami, it's just stating the obvious.
Leak also stated entering college that he wouldn't have a girlfriend until he won a National Title--so I wouldn't take his words too seriously.
If you want to run a "System", that's fine, but you better have the personnel to operate it--and Leak is about as poor of a fit as you could have in Meyer's system. He's not athletic, he's not tough, and you can eliminate any thought of him running with the football because even if he does, it's not going to hurt you because he's a such wimp/poor runner. Fitting round parts into square holes is silly and Meyer's not showing much leadership by having Leak run his "System"--it should've been altered while he's the QB or he should've been replaced ASAP.
Tebow is a good fit and after Leak loses 2 games, the fans will want the change and pressure will grow--if they stick with Leak, they'll see their season fall apart. If they make the change, it'll at least be the start of Tebow at QB and they can get him valuable game experience--but against that schedule they'll lose games due to his inexperience. So I see 5 losses by season's end due to that--I could see Leak losing to Tennessee and it's not that I think Vols will be any good--although they'll be desperate due to Fulmer being out to save his job. That's a game you are counting as a win, South Carolina game might be the most Pressure Meyer will feel at UF--Spurrier's return to the Swamp and depending on what UF has done all year, that game could get ugly for Gators, in terms of atmosphere---if UF wins majority of games, no problem, but if they are not looking good, have 3/4 losses, it's going to be an "interesting" atmosphere to say the least.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 25, 2006 14:46:23 GMT -5
Fair enough. I still think you are refusing to accept any good things about Leak for some reason. He did make that comment about girlfriends but I heard the interview. It wasn't done in a cocky way at all. His whole point was that he didn't want to add any distractions to the job. And like I said before, he really is a student of the game. It is common knowledge that he studies film more than anyone else ... almost relentlessly. RDF wrote: If you want to run a "System", that's fine, but you better have the personnel to operate it--and Leak is about as poor of a fit as you could have in Meyer's system. I wouldn't word it quite like that. Rex Grossman or Shane Matthews wouldn't have been good fits either. Nor would Jim Kelly or Ken Dorsey for that matter. But that is a pretty good point and one we both mentioned pages ago. There is no doubt that Leak isn't the prototypical QB for the system. THe guys that Meyer has gone after since are more suited -- Josh Portis, Jevon Snead and Tim Tebow. That being said, much of the offensive issues came from a lack of familiarity with the system. To use the cliche, the players were thinking not reacting. THe extra year learning the system is tremendous. Regardless of your personal opinion of the offense, there is no doubt that at both of Meyer's previous schools the offense struggled the first year and took off in the second. Granted the MAC and the WAC are not the SEC. But I still expect to see the same type of improvement here. I don't remember the last time we were this loaded at the receiver position. There is still uncertainty at the running back spot, but all the guys are talented, we just haven't had one step up and distance himself from the pack. Put it all together and I see 3 or 4 playmakers on the field all the time. The combination of familiarity and lots of options (pun intended) should reap great results. Incidentally here is the ESPN expert picks for the year: sports.espn.go.com/ncf/preview06/news/story?id=2560479
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Aug 25, 2006 17:32:37 GMT -5
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Aug 25, 2006 18:04:24 GMT -5
Not so fast, Nebraska. By the end of last season, the 'Huskers looked like a program on the rise. Not a huge rise, but a rise nonetheless. Fast forward to 2006. Nebraska plays patsys (La. Tech and Nicholls State) in Weeks 1 & 2, then travels to El Lay to meet SC in Week 3. Seems very likely SC will do to Nebraska what it did to Arkansas in the Coliseum in 2005. Adios to the Big Red Nation's dreams of a return to CFB's elite.
So, if a colossal beatdown at the hands of the Trojans does indeed happen, do we have a QB controversy on our hands? I doubt it. Keller is probably a better overall QB than Zac Taylor, but he's just now learning the system. Besides, the Zac Attack looked pretty sharp at times last season (of course, it also looked terrible in a few games). If a controversy does arise, it will be driven by the bloodthirsty media and impatient Nebraska fans. I really think Callahan is too experienced a coach to make a dumb early season switch, but we'll see. With all the Keller articles out on the internet today you can almost smell blood in the water -- the writers are just waiting for the 'Huskers to stumble at this point.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Aug 25, 2006 18:29:03 GMT -5
Looks like there are some Gator fans who disagree with hifi on Mr. Leak as well. EDSBS comments on Pat Forde's column (linked above). The truth is, for the most part when Florida managed to get in the red zone in the past three years we prayed for simple handoffs.
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Most quarterbacks have to be taught to find the checkdown or the hot route after spending years heaving passes downfield; Leak’s tutelage has involved turning him from Checkdown Charlie to a passer willing to take some, any, please god something chances against defenses. He won’t throw many picks, he’ll slide when he runs, and he’ll throw the ball away if he runs out of options. He’s safe as milk and about as interesting to watch excepting the two or three times a game he lays a ball onto a receiver’s fingertips with smart-bomb precision and keeps his blue-chip mythos afloat.
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Chris Leak, though, has never singlehandedly taken over and won a game Florida fans wouldn’t care to forget anyway. His coming-out party at Kentucky owed everything to Jared Lorenzen suffering a stroke and tossing a wild pass directly to a UF defender for a touchdown. Big victories at LSU in 2003 and FSU in 2004 relied less on Leak’s arm and more on defense and special teams. His only real memorable last-minute victory came in ‘05 at home against Vandy, and even then…do you really want that as your big signature win? That seems less about beating someone with superior guile and grit and more about avoiding complete disaster at home.
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The closer it gets to the season, the more we realize: there isn’t any sort of reason why Chris Leak can’t be replaced by Tim Tebow if Meyer feels like it’s a better fit. Supporters of Leak would point to his track record. Unfortunately, going into his senior year, so can detractors. It wouldn’t be uncrazy to think it could happen. Full comments here. Scroll down a bit past halfway.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 26, 2006 10:43:42 GMT -5
Austin, most of those comments are more paraphrazing of what we have already discussed. His "weaknesses" would be that he isn't,. or at least hasn't shown himself to be a very skilled runner, and either an unawareness of the situation at times or an unwillingness to take a big hit in an effort to get that last yard for a first down. THat perceived lack of toughness is definitely a concern.
Accordingly, when the author said "as safe as milk" he too hit the nail on the head. At least last season that was what the staff wanted from Leak ... well that aside from more agressive running. Holding on to/taking care of the football has an ultimate premium placed on it. Sure, you could point out times where other QBs might have taken a chance on a risky throw. Maybe it would have resulted in a big play or TD. BUt maybe it would have turned the ball over.
As far as his throwing downfield is concerned, he is fine. There is no problem with his arm or with his touch. He can make all the tough throws -- the deep out, the skinny post, the delicate fade etc... The complaints listed placed some misguided blame. For the past 3 years our passing attack has been far to horizontal. The first 2 years of that was the result of Zaunbrecher and Fedora's painful scheme, although the stats would deem it successful, most of the fans were skeptical to say the least. Meyer's offense is not the same, but last year a couple of key injuries really mandated a toning down of the offense. Andre Caldwell was the biggest loss and with his sub 4.4 speed and natural elusiveness we were limited in what we could do. Dallas Baker also missed time with a broken rib and punctured lung, while the other 2 deep threats in Jamelle Cornelius and Chad Jackson battled nagging ankle injuries which hampered them all season. The bottom line is that we simply didn't have the athletes to stretch the field last year. The staff adjusted on the fly when Caldwell went down but the best adjustments came prior to the Georgia game. This year, barring multiple injuries, we will have a very potent offense. I am totally confident in the team.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Aug 26, 2006 11:26:34 GMT -5
Andre Caldwell has been a non-factor for the hype his recruitment received--now that's not all due to things he can control, but for the buzz this kid received out of Tampa Jefferson, I've yet to see the production. He's fast, but he runs poor routes, and as a common trait that always creeps into discussion with majority of UF players--his toughness is questioned.
I think Fayson, the true FR and Harvin are better then any returning Gator WR in terms of fits for the offense and ability to make plays--but Harvin brings some serious baggage to the table and as a WR, I preferred his teammate Damon McDaniel who UF lost to FSU in a late switch. Fayson is the real deal though, that kid will be a player.
Chris Leak played in 1 of the most overrated programs in HS--Charlotte Independence HS. I think Gator fans want their Coaches to ban this school from the evaluation list after Steve Shipp--he of the 4.8 40 and touted as a playmaker at WR and out of Gainesville quickly. Then Leak comes along as the "savior". Style of offense doesn't equate into a debate about toughness and willingness to sell out to win. You are either a winner or not. Leak has shown over 3 years he isn't tough and doesn't understand what it takes to win championships. Talking about things is worthless--show it through performance on the field.
Interesting thing is that in talking of overrated HS programs, USC is going to start John David Booty and he is from Evangel HS in Louisiana--which is THE most overrated dump of a program in America. Josh Booty, Brock Berlin, Brent Rawls, Steve Lee, Tristen Ross, etc..........heck the best player out of that school has been Phillip Geiger who played at Texas and he wasn't nearly as acclaimed as others who attended there. Seeing a lot of USC shows on my cable system, you get to see their Spring Game, and practice updates--and it's apparent to me that the Trojans best QB/fit is Mark Sanchez--but Carroll is going to try and really do something special in the history of CFB--win with a QB from Evangel HS--if he does this, he should retire and be enshrined in the CFB HOF. Sanchez is what a QB is all about--Booty is typical Evangel--in a scrimmage or something that doesnt' matter, he'll light it up--play him in REAL situation with game on the line?? We'll get to find out but I'm guessing Arkansas gives USC a game due to some awful play from the Trojans QB and I believe Nebraska will play with/possibly upset USC due to Booty's poor play.
Austin, I'd be careful in thinking Nebraska is going to get a beatdown like Arkansas did--that USC offense last year was one of the finest in the history of CFB and it only returns the WR. Now their OL is key to everything they do, but Leinart is replaced by Booty, and that is entire difference. USC will have to wait until Sanchez takes over to get someone who will lead them to level of play they were at the past 3 years.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by hifigator on Aug 26, 2006 12:10:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the input RDF and you make great points with regard to Evangel. Certain programs turn out College level talent and others turn our high school level talent. I had already noticed how many "big time" recruits keep coming from there only to fizzle out as a bit player at best. With regard to Leak, I think we have covered everything enough already. We agree on a couple of areas of concern. I have noticed and pointed out some positives about Leak which you either dismiss or disregard. Fair enough, time will tell and one of us will be right and one will be wrong.
As for Fayson and Harvin, I just hope they can live up to the hype. From all early returns they are both doing well. I'm not sure I would label Harvin as a problem kid and I'm not sure that saying he has "baggage" is really even fair at this point. But I am quick to criticize those who dismiss behavioral issues so it is certainly something to keep an eye on. I think he will be a big time player. I think he can be a Tim Brown/Desmond Howard type of player. I'm not handing him a Heismann by any means, just giving a stylistic comparison. The ffotage I saw from some high school games were very impressive. As for McDaniel, I don't know what to think about that one. All along he said he wasn't going to the same school as Harvin. But I watched that special on ESPN where they made their announcements and both chose Florida. Then about a month later he was uncommitted again. Lastly, I agree that Caldwell has yet to fully live up to his potential, but like you point out, all indications were that last season was going to be his breakthrough year and then he broke his femur against Tennessee. The best thing I can say is that he is even faster now. He was clocked in one timing at 4.28 which was the fastest on the team. I just see this team as the fastest we have probably ever had. With Caldwell, Harvin, Fayson, Cornelius and Boateng we have 5 legit 4.4 or better playmakers and Dallas Baker as the big/possession receiver. Ironically, with all those playmakers and speed, it was a different freshman who had earned the kickoff return duties in Brandon James (I think that's his name). Anyhow, he is out for another 3 or 4 weeks. Even without him we are just absolutely stacked on the outside and in the slot. I think Chad Jackson saw this on the horizon and figured he might as well leave early since playing time was going to be split among so many athletes.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Aug 26, 2006 13:47:07 GMT -5
Austin, I'd be careful in thinking Nebraska is going to get a beatdown like Arkansas did--that USC offense last year was one of the finest in the history of CFB and it only returns the WR. Now their OL is key to everything they do, but Leinart is replaced by Booty, and that is entire difference. USC will have to wait until Sanchez takes over to get someone who will lead them to level of play they were at the past 3 years. My thinking on the Nebraska-USC game is: a) Similar to your thinking, USC returns much of the O-Line (3 out of 5 if I remember correctly). If Booty makes mistakes in the pocket it will most likely not be because of pressure. Nebraska's defense is good, but in last year's Rose Bowl USC's O-line dominated the top-ranked defense in the Big 12. USC should be able to put 3 TDs on the board, no matter who is under center or in the backfield. b) Nebraska's offense looked decent in the last game of the season against CU and against UM in the Alamo Bowl, but I do wonder if the 'Huskers can carry that success over to 2006. I do not think Nebraska will be able to score at will, and Taylor is prone to throwing INTs. I say Carroll outmanuevers Callahan when Nebraska has the ball and capitalizes on the Huskers' mistakes. c) You're right that "Arkansas-style blowout" may be a bit of an exaggeration. However, I would take USC over Nebraksa with the spread in this one, as I think the Trojans will win comfortably. d) Even though I'm not picking the 'Huskers in this particular game, I do expect them to continue to improve this season, win the Big XII North, and give Texas a pretty good game up in Lincoln.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Aug 26, 2006 15:50:15 GMT -5
I don't expect Nebraska to win--but I also expect John David Booty to be terrible and he alone could keep Nebraska in the game. I think a lot of what happens in that game will be determined with how USC plays in their game against Arkansas next weekend. Arkansas moved the ball well against USC in early stages of game but got caught trying to match points and you weren't going to beat USC like that--not last year with that offense.
USC's OL is the key to their team and they'll be outstanding--possibly more talented then last year as I believe Chilo Rachal is a better player then Fred Matua and Jeff Byers is as good/superior to Deuce Letui. I like very spot on USC's team when it comes to talent--including QB--as I believe Mark Sanchez could go down as their most talented QB they've had--although he might not win as much because that is something that will be tough to keep up/other factors come into play too. Booty is the guy I think is their question mark and if he steps up, I'll be impressed--more by USC getting production out of an Evangel HS product then anything.
As for Nebraska, I hope they get killed--their fanbase is beyond annoying and they always pat themselves on the back for having class. Most of them are cool away from football but become cult-like when it comes to Husker football where they believe 8th team walk ons are superior to future 1st Round NFL players.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Aug 27, 2006 12:24:10 GMT -5
Well maybe I was too quick to praise Tebow as the future of UF football--there was an article done by a UF site/Student Paper (Gator affiliate) that basically mentioned how Tebow's father is becoming a royal pain in the butt. He's at every practice--but not observing, he's standing next to Urban Meyer during practice and is acting/talking like he's a coach. It's really become a distraction/annoying according to the article and could lead to some serious problems should Leak struggle early/Gators lose early and Tebow is inserted into the lineup--is it because he's ready/better or is it due to Meyer's relationship with his dad? Hifi probably has the scoop here and can link it for us, being that he's a Gator fan, but it was an interesting read. I've tried to link it but it came up Premium and wasn't providing direct link, so just thought I'd recap it for you. Gotta love meddlesome parents in sports.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Aug 28, 2006 12:03:42 GMT -5
Well maybe I was too quick to praise Tebow as the future of UF football--there was an article done by a UF site/Student Paper (Gator affiliate) that basically mentioned how Tebow's father is becoming a royal pain in the butt. He's at every practice--but not observing, he's standing next to Urban Meyer during practice and is acting/talking like he's a coach. It's really become a distraction/annoying according to the article and could lead to some serious problems should Leak struggle early/Gators lose early and Tebow is inserted into the lineup--is it because he's ready/better or is it due to Meyer's relationship with his dad? Hifi probably has the scoop here and can link it for us, being that he's a Gator fan, but it was an interesting read. I've tried to link it but it came up Premium and wasn't providing direct link, so just thought I'd recap it for you. Gotta love meddlesome parents in sports. Somebody brought that up last Friday during the lunch hour sports talk show. The caller referenced an article in the "Independent Florida Alligator" which is a free daily newspaper distributed on and around campus but without any financial ownership by the Universtity itself. Still, most of the writers are journalism students. I actually enjoyed reading the paper when I was in school. It probably gets as many "readings per copy" as any paper I have ever seen. Invariably there are a couple of dozen issues scattered around every classroom, left there no doubt by the first period students. For the rest of the day all that happens is they get circulated around from desk to desk over all 11 periods. At the end of the day, I wouldn't doubt that each of those copies have been read at least twenty times. And in the unfortunate event you encouter the need to use the facilities, there is almost always a copy coveniently within reach. In any case, the article was a bit vague. It clearly implied a negative/interuptive aspect to Mr. Tebow, but fell short of stating it explicitly. The talk show host, who had yet to read the article, was rather non-commital with his response as well. He said basically that there was a big difference between a parent coming out and watching practice and gretting the coach/saying a word or two as the coach walks by and actually interjecting yourself as the coach is trying to do his job. Basically Steve Russell gave no real opinion on what was specifically happening since practices are "closed" and there aren't any media allowed in to the practices anyway. Exactly where this journalist's info came from was unclear. Ultimately, Russell's response was that if the coach had no problem with it then who was he to complain about it. It definitely gave us some potential area of discussion for sure.
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