TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Aug 22, 2006 14:05:12 GMT -5
Leak's dad was demanding 2-for-1 offers when CJ was in HS and Chris was still in middle school.
Jim Caldwell at Wake and Lou Holtz at SC were the only two that took him up on it apparently from what I heard. Then CJ was taken out for the season with a broken leg in a Wake-Clemson game and transferred to UT.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Aug 22, 2006 15:18:08 GMT -5
He and his brother were high profile, low output recruits. His father was insane and Fulmer had the guy banned from campus in Knoxville. RDF, are you saying that recruiting rankings are worthless across the board in college sports or only in football? I have to say that I have spent this entire summer avoiding all posts on the hoops board pertaining to recruits and their rankings A little of both--although it's easier to identify talent in basketball then football for a few reasons--it's a skill sport and if you can run/jump/shoot/pass, you can play. Now how you fit into a team atmosphere is different, but talent jumps out in basketball. The position that is most screwed up by "gurus" is evaluating big men--they have no clue how to do so because AAU/HS ball has a bunch of guard/forwards firing and bigs are ignored. I look for big kids, who have good hands/soft touch, and can run the floor. That's why I have always loved Hibbert's potential while people like Ignatius hated on him--you can't teach 7'2 with touch around the hoop. As for football, it's impossible to evaluate because most kids don't play their peers at any point in a game situation. It's the only sport where you can't evaluate the best against the best in a game--they do it at "Camps" with T-Shirts and Shorts on and that is silly when game is played with pads on. OL/DL are always overrated/poorly evaluated because they never see kids their size/bigger who are as quick/quicker then them and most offenses in HS don't have balance. QB's don't face sophisicated defenses and are judged by arm strength and how they do at Camps/7 on 7's--which is interesting because you play with 11 out there and in pads. It's easy to throw when nobody 6'4 275 is about to knock you on your butt and DB's are smothering your target. Only position you can usually tell talent is RB--game really doesn't change except for needing to learn pass protection but as far as running--you usually only need to learn how to get your pad level a little lower and not try and bounce everything outside/do too much. Every other position needs technique taught, sophistication of learning how to read coverages/offensive alignments, and most of all, you need to improve your frame through weight training and proper nutrition. Half the guys rated by Rivals/Scout in Football are completely overrated and only ranked high by the school lists that they provide. Gurus figure "he's got Miami, USC, etc... calling him, he's got to be #1..." when fact is that those schools usually do a great job of recruiting but they have their misses too. All you need to know about Gurus is that had a kid named Yohance Buchanan who signed with FSU and another named OJ Owens who signed with Tennessee ranked ahead of SEAN TAYLOR--who was a 1 star player. Now I saw Taylor play in a HS All Star game--same game was Matt Leinart who was by far the most impressive QB prospect and yet the two most hyped guys during the game were Dominic Robinson-a slow footed, untalented player who was nicknamed "Prime Time II" due to loving Deion Sanders and signed with FSU and FSU QB commit Adrian McPherson--who was a talented kid but raw--where Leinart was accurate. Big arms are fun to watch--accuracy is most important at QB--and that is where gurus are often wrong. You are projecting what someone will be--not what they have done in HS because it means nothing. Can their game carry over to College level or are they tapped out and never going to get any better?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 22, 2006 15:44:52 GMT -5
Geez, I don't know, RDF. The rankings/scouting for Ron Powlus were pretty accurate coming out of high school!
;D
[edit - additional commentary not necessary or relevant]
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 22, 2006 15:46:08 GMT -5
RDF wrote:
Chris Leak is GARBAGE. The kid lacks guts, has no clue what it takes to win, and isn't a leader. Leaders don't slide short of 1st Down marker on 3rd down to avoid taking a hit--it's about winning, not protecting your body and it's guys who play like that who end up getting hurt/injured more. The guy backs up on his throws, has horrible footwork in the pocket, can't take a hit, throws ball and turns away to avoid getting hit, and is basically your grade A, bonofide, chicken BLEEP.
The only positive I can about Leak is that he proves how worthless recruiting Rankings are--he was the consensus #1 QB and it's a joke. That kid isn't a leader or winner, but glad Hifi is a "believer", be even funnier when the Gators stink up the joint and Leak is pulled about midseason for the tougher, better fit for Meyer's offense Tebow.
I agree with the sentiment and have also noticed Leak mysteriously stopping just short rather than getting the first down. But I don't think it is a lack of guts or a fear of getting hit. I think he just flat out didn't pay enough attention at times. Granted that is not an excuse, and maybe I am being overly optimistic, but I don't think it will be an issue anymore.
In fairness, he was in a hurry to scramble out of the pocket in his first season and the coaches put him on a short leash so to speak. I think after 2 and a half years of being told NOT to run it was a very hard adjustment for him to feel comfortable. I really do look for big things from the offense this year though. We just have too much talent and speed across the board.
Lastly, your comment about Tebow is certainly valid. He is a more natural "fit" for the offense, but I still think Leak will do fine. 11 days and we will know for sure.
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VelvetElvis
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Post by VelvetElvis on Aug 22, 2006 16:47:41 GMT -5
He and his brother were high profile, low output recruits. His father was insane and Fulmer had the guy banned from campus in Knoxville. RDF, are you saying that recruiting rankings are worthless across the board in college sports or only in football? I have to say that I have spent this entire summer avoiding all posts on the hoops board pertaining to recruits and their rankings A little of both--although it's easier to identify talent in basketball then football for a few reasons--it's a skill sport and if you can run/jump/shoot/pass, you can play. Now how you fit into a team atmosphere is different, but talent jumps out in basketball. The position that is most screwed up by "gurus" is evaluating big men--they have no clue how to do so because AAU/HS ball has a bunch of guard/forwards firing and bigs are ignored. I look for big kids, who have good hands/soft touch, and can run the floor. That's why I have always loved Hibbert's potential while people like Ignatius hated on him--you can't teach 7'2 with touch around the hoop. As for football, it's impossible to evaluate because most kids don't play their peers at any point in a game situation. It's the only sport where you can't evaluate the best against the best in a game--they do it at "Camps" with T-Shirts and Shorts on and that is silly when game is played with pads on. OL/DL are always overrated/poorly evaluated because they never see kids their size/bigger who are as quick/quicker then them and most offenses in HS don't have balance. QB's don't face sophisicated defenses and are judged by arm strength and how they do at Camps/7 on 7's--which is interesting because you play with 11 out there and in pads. It's easy to throw when nobody 6'4 275 is about to knock you on your butt and DB's are smothering your target. Only position you can usually tell talent is RB--game really doesn't change except for needing to learn pass protection but as far as running--you usually only need to learn how to get your pad level a little lower and not try and bounce everything outside/do too much. Every other position needs technique taught, sophistication of learning how to read coverages/offensive alignments, and most of all, you need to improve your frame through weight training and proper nutrition. Half the guys rated by Rivals/Scout in Football are completely overrated and only ranked high by the school lists that they provide. Gurus figure "he's got Miami, USC, etc... calling him, he's got to be #1..." when fact is that those schools usually do a great job of recruiting but they have their misses too. All you need to know about Gurus is that had a kid named Yohance Buchanan who signed with FSU and another named OJ Owens who signed with Tennessee ranked ahead of SEAN TAYLOR--who was a 1 star player. Now I saw Taylor play in a HS All Star game--same game was Matt Leinart who was by far the most impressive QB prospect and yet the two most hyped guys during the game were Dominic Robinson-a slow footed, untalented player who was nicknamed "Prime Time II" due to loving Deion Sanders and signed with FSU and FSU QB commit Adrian McPherson--who was a talented kid but raw--where Leinart was accurate. Big arms are fun to watch--accuracy is most important at QB--and that is where gurus are often wrong. You are projecting what someone will be--not what they have done in HS because it means nothing. Can their game carry over to College level or are they tapped out and never going to get any better? ah yes, Adrian Mcpherson...My brother and "AD" shared a, um, "handicapper" at the Florida Teacher's College... He also lived two doors down from the auto customizing shop where he lifted those checks...allegedly, of course. Very strong assessment of high school recruiting for football. I agree that it happens less and less in hoops. SEC East is going to be a toss up this year.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 23, 2006 10:58:47 GMT -5
Elvis, it sounds like you are getting a couple of issues confused. You do know that McPherson was one of FSU's many criminals and had nothing to do with Florida or the SEC for that matter. Incidentally, I know exactly where the monies from those checks went. I guess that is sort of a "perk" from my job. Not surprisingly he "purchased" exactly the amount of equipment the very same day. I want to say the amount was $3500 but can't recall for sure.
I think the SEC east is really a 2 team race between Florida and Georgia. Most likely the winner of the Cocktail party will play in Atlanta in December. One thing Meyer did last year was similar to what SPurrier did in 90, they both reclaimed the Swamp and basically instilled the attitude into both the players and the fans that "We don't lose at home." Granted it was only one year and the schedule wasn't particularly difficult. The concern is that he didn't do another thing which Spurrier did in his first year. Spurrier beat a quality opponent on the road in his first opportunity. In fact it was the same team which Meyer went up against first, but with drastically different results. In 90 we beat Bama by 3 but last year they walloped us. That is really the major concern. In Meyer's first season he established that we will win with the crowd behind us. He showed this in the 6 home games as well as the split crowd in Jax and the partisan Gator crowd at the Outback Bowl. But he only won one game out of 4 in a true "road" situation.
All that being said, I think we hold serve at home again even though Bama, LSU and South Carolina -- the 3 teams that beat us last year -- all visit the swamp. We're not going to lose to Southern Miss, UCF, Kentucky or Western Carolina at home and I don't see us losing to either Tennessee or Vandy on the road. That leaves trips to Auburn and FSU along with the annual cocktail party in Jacksonville. If my assessments are correct then we finish anywhere between 9-3 and 12-0 depending on those three games. At this point I say we beat Georgia and lose to Auburn but beat them in the rematch in Atlanta. I think we stretch our winning streak over FSU to 3 games and move on to the BCS with a 12-1 record. Depending on how everything else shakes out we just could be playing for all the marbles come January.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Aug 23, 2006 11:14:06 GMT -5
Elvis, it sounds like you are getting a couple of issues confused. You do know that McPherson was one of FSU's many criminals and had nothing to do with Florida or the SEC for that matter. Incidentally, I know exactly where the monies from those checks went. I guess that is sort of a "perk" from my job. Not surprisingly he "purchased" exactly the amount of equipment the very same day. I want to say the amount was $3500 but can't recall for sure. So does this mean you sell drugs? Because that would explain a lot. BTW, I think it's very doubtful the Gators will beat FSU in Tallahassee this November.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 23, 2006 11:30:20 GMT -5
Austin, I am in "retail" but no, my products are legal. But I openly admit that some of my customers do look strangely like drug dealers at times. The point about McPherson was different though. That money went straight to a certain stereo shop in Tallahassee.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Aug 23, 2006 15:53:32 GMT -5
Elvis, it sounds like you are getting a couple of issues confused. You do know that McPherson was one of FSU's many criminals and had nothing to do with Florida or the SEC for that matter. Incidentally, I know exactly where the monies from those checks went. I guess that is sort of a "perk" from my job. Not surprisingly he "purchased" exactly the amount of equipment the very same day. I want to say the amount was $3500 but can't recall for sure. I think the SEC east is really a 2 team race between Florida and Georgia. Most likely the winner of the Cocktail party will play in Atlanta in December. One thing Meyer did last year was similar to what SPurrier did in 90, they both reclaimed the Swamp and basically instilled the attitude into both the players and the fans that "We don't lose at home." Granted it was only one year and the schedule wasn't particularly difficult. The concern is that he didn't do another thing which Spurrier did in his first year. Spurrier beat a quality opponent on the road in his first opportunity. In fact it was the same team which Meyer went up against first, but with drastically different results. In 90 we beat Bama by 3 but last year they walloped us. That is really the major concern. In Meyer's first season he established that we will win with the crowd behind us. He showed this in the 6 home games as well as the split crowd in Jax and the partisan Gator crowd at the Outback Bowl. But he only won one game out of 4 in a true "road" situation. All that being said, I think we hold serve at home again even though Bama, LSU and South Carolina -- the 3 teams that beat us last year -- all visit the swamp. We're not going to lose to Southern Miss, UCF, Kentucky or Western Carolina at home and I don't see us losing to either Tennessee or Vandy on the road. That leaves trips to Auburn and FSU along with the annual cocktail party in Jacksonville. If my assessments are correct then we finish anywhere between 9-3 and 12-0 depending on those three games. At this point I say we beat Georgia and lose to Auburn but beat them in the rematch in Atlanta. I think we stretch our winning streak over FSU to 3 games and move on to the BCS with a 12-1 record. Depending on how everything else shakes out we just could be playing for all the marbles come January. "Re-claimed the Swamp". If Florida football aspires to the dominance of defeating the worst Tennessee/FSU teams in the last 15 years, and squeaking one out over Vandy in OT, then I'm just glad that as a Miami fan that type of standard is seen as FAILURE. It's very fitting that UF's only Championship came due to other teams bailing their failure out--losing to a less talented FSU team in '96-- and that sums up Florida football. Their kids aren't tough, they are mentally fragile and when I think of Gator football I think of Leak--he's poster boy for what they are all about. Or Chad Jackson's "slide" in the Peach Bowl--only time in history of the game I've seen a WR slide short of 1st Down and not clock related--just afraid of getting hit. Urban Meyer is a clown and his offense is not going to work against teams with speed--they are too horizontal and don't attack up the field enough. Leak is the worst QB you could get to run this system and while Tebow is better, the OL UF has is garbage and their defense is notoriously awful and not tough enough--mentally or physically. I see 5 losses for the Gators and that is if they play to their expectations.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 23, 2006 16:54:43 GMT -5
RDF wrote:
"Re-claimed the Swamp". If Florida football aspires to the dominance of defeating the worst Tennessee/FSU teams in the last 15 years, and squeaking one out over Vandy in OT, then I'm just glad that as a Miami fan that type of standard is seen as FAILURE.
It's very fitting that UF's only Championship came due to other teams bailing their failure out--losing to a less talented FSU team in '96-- and that sums up Florida football. Their kids aren't tough, they are mentally fragile and when I think of Gator football I think of Leak--he's poster boy for what they are all about. Or Chad Jackson's "slide" in the Peach Bowl--only time in history of the game I've seen a WR slide short of 1st Down and not clock related--just afraid of getting hit.
Urban Meyer is a clown and his offense is not going to work against teams with speed--they are too horizontal and don't attack up the field enough. Leak is the worst QB you could get to run this system and while Tebow is better, the OL UF has is garbage and their defense is notoriously awful and not tough enough--mentally or physically. I see 5 losses for the Gators and that is if they play to their expectations.
You make some valid points but you missed mine entirely. You are correct in mentioning that teh Tennessee team was not as good as other years. Still, they were full strength when we played them and we overwhelmed them. We single handedly started that slide for them last year. As for FSU, they got a lot better through the year. And we annihilated them. They were very lucky to score in the last 5 minutes otherwise it would have been a shutout. As it was, we pounded them 34-7. The very next week they went out and handled an excellent Va. Tech team. Then they gave a very good Penn St. team everything they could handle before losing in three or four overtimes. As for the Vandy game you are correct. We didn't play well that game and were fortunate to escape with a win. That game will only play dividends for us now though. Even though we feed off the energy at home, we know that we can't merely show up and win.
No argument that this is a pivotal year. Even though many are calling this a transition or rebuilding year, I really look for big things from this team. Like we have both pointed out, Leak is not a good fit for the offense, but I think he will do very well this year. I see tons of improvement.
The offensive line has gotten great press. Until we suit up it is obviously all conjecture, but last year's team was highly touted going in but very mediocre on the field.
Meyer is not a clown and you will see that this season.
As for defense, you are off your rocket. The only real question mark was depth at linebacker and secondary. We are talented and 2-3 deep up front as are the rest of the starters on the defensive unit. We have had a number of guys step up so far in practice and even push some of the starters. I am telling you right now we will be an excellent defense. We will stuff the opposition and generate turnovers.
I will bet you right now we don't have 5 losses. I will even give you a draw on 4. What do you think? I will take over 8 regular season wins. I only win if we go 9-3 or better. You win if we go 7-5 or worse and 8-4 would be a push.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Aug 23, 2006 18:50:22 GMT -5
I'll give you a pass on not understanding how terrible Va Tech was as you weren't around here last season--I called them losing to FSU the minute I knew FSU would play them--Marcus Vick sucked and wasn't going to beat FSU's defense and Beamer never has beaten them. That wasn't an impressive Tech team, it was a team that was overrated all year and exposed by a mediocre Miami and terrible FSU team.
Florida's win over FSU wasn't impressive--it was expected. They should have handled that team and it shows you how AWFUL Miami was to have lost despite having numerous chances to win--even though last year's Hurricane team was worst since Butch took over during probation years.
Penn State was decent but that was one of the worst played Bowl Games I've seen in a BCS bowl--missed chip shot kicks, penalties, sloppy play--that doesn't equate to an impressive game--just because a game is close, doesn't mean it's a great game.
I'll stick with my guns--Leak at QB with that schedule-is at least 5 losses.
As for the Gators defense--the minute they prove to be physically tough and more importantly, have tough mental approach, I'll believe. Until then, they are what UF teams usually are, front-runners who are a handle if you trail them, but when you have them down, you own them. Leak is a loser and Meyer is all talk--it's time for both of them to back it up--on the field.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 24, 2006 14:56:23 GMT -5
You missed my point entirely. I agree that FSU was not a great team last year but they were playing their best ball at the end of the season. Once Weatherford got some experience behind him, they were able to open up their offense a little bit. Granted, putting the ball in "Jeff Bowden's" hands, so to speak, is not necessarily a good thing ... in fact it's a really bad thing. Still, by the end of the year FSU was at least a quality team. And we didn't just beat them, we annihilated them. It was 34-7 and it wasn't even that close. THey only had 22 yards rushing midway through the fourth quarter.
As for the Orange Bowl, granted it was sloppy but were it not for Cismesia (sp?) missing chip shots FSU would have won. I think he missed two FG in overtimes and one extra point in the game.
Leak is many things but he is not a loser. Loser implies either an attitude issue or an inability to perform in the clutch. Our close losses have come at the hands of the defense the past few seasons. Leak has played well in the clutch. His decision making and leadership are excellent and he is truly a student of the game. Not many quarterbacks would be capable of running 3 different offenses in their first three years, yet that is exactly what Leak has done. Zaunbrecher ran the offense his true freshman season and then Fedora as a sophomore, and now finally as a senior he will be running the same offense under the same coaches. I think you really are shorting Leak. Now as to the lack of that little something ... for example sliding just short of a first down, that is something he needs to rid himself of. Granted if he does that type of thing again then I might change my opinion of him. But until then he is our QB and a damn good one at that.
As for Meyer being "all talk" I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. Urban is not much of a talker in fact that is one of the complaints that the media are constantly making. I guess they got spoiled. They had the human bulletin board in Steve Spurrier for a dozen years and then walking foot in mouth Ron Zook for the past 3.
Lastly, as for toughness on defense, we haven't had that swagger since 2000 but I really think the makeup of this unit is ripe for its return. Siler and Everett anchor our linebackers and have tons of experience. As talented as Channing Crowder was, Siler is much more technically sound and every bit as athletic. Up front Marcus Thomas, Ray McDonald, Joe Cohen and a host of other studs should more than handle their own against any offensive line they face and leave the backers free to fly around and make plays. The depth at linebacker is a concern, but 3 true freshman have all received very high marks as well as Brian Crum who is a redshirt sophomore. We did lose Jon Demps last week for the season, but we still look to be ok. Lastly the secondary is finally coming together. Reggie Nelson and Reggie Lewis were slotted to start on the outside and can match up against virtually any tandem of WRs around. Ryan Smith has been a pleasant surprise. He was all conference at Utah 2 years ago with Meyer and was the beneficiary of the new NCAA rule which allows a transfer to play immediately if he completes his degree at his original school and continues on to a graduate program. Kyle Jackson is slotted to be the fourth starter in the defensive backfield.
I didn't mean to bore you with all those names, but the point is that we do have playmakers and we do have depth at most positions, and we do have experience. Now we just need to go make some plays.
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miamihoya
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Post by miamihoya on Aug 24, 2006 16:14:22 GMT -5
I'll give you a pass on not understanding how terrible Va Tech was as you weren't around here last season--I called them losing to FSU the minute I knew FSU would play them--Marcus Vick sucked and wasn't going to beat FSU's defense and Beamer never has beaten them. That wasn't an impressive Tech team, it was a team that was overrated all year and exposed by a mediocre Miami and terrible FSU team. Florida's win over FSU wasn't impressive--it was expected. They should have handled that team and it shows you how AWFUL Miami was to have lost despite having numerous chances to win--even though last year's Hurricane team was worst since Butch took over during probation years. Definatley agree that FSU was not a good team last year, but instead just fortunate. Their win versus Miami was nothing to be proud of, as both teams just played terrible footbal, and the noles were lucky to walk away with it. They were lucky to play in the weak division of the ACC, thus assuring themselves a place in the title game against a Vtech team that Miami proved to be way overrated. Unfortunatley most "experts" seem to think like hifigator, and think that FSU came on strong at the end of the season, and thus are overrating them in the preseason polls. I expect the 'Canes to put a quick end to all that hype on labor day.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Aug 24, 2006 16:21:55 GMT -5
I know who Brandon Siler is and I know all of the players you mentioned--I follow CFB and especially in the State of Florida very closely--it's not a bore. Marcus Thomas is a good player and Ray McDonald is too--Reggie Nelson is all hype--as if Joe Cohen, but I just don't care for Florida's defensive attitude--they lack one in my opinion and are often poorly conditioned and wilt in 4th quarter--just like they were doing against Iowa who should've had opportunity to win/tie the game and lost it due to a terrible offsides call on the onside kick.
As for Leak--anyone who plays as scared as he does and yes I've watched him play all 3 years--and that includes the times he comes up short/slides to avoid contact or ducks/turns away backwards instead of taking a hit in the pocket. He's a loser. Guys like him are all talk/glamour in offseason and when it's nut cutting time in 4th quarter, they fade like dogs.
FSU wasn't playing great football all year--they were on a losing streak entering the UF game, including a home loss to non-bowl team NC State--so how is that playing good football? And putting the ball in Weatherford's hands?? He threw a ton last year and as a team they ran for under 1000 yards so how was it that he wasn't throwing all year? Their RB's complained about lack of touches and their run/pass ratio all year was almost 70% pass to 30% run. How do you not know things like this as a person who supposedly follows UF football and lives in Florida? I mean you should know what your opponents did entering a game right? Getting beat at home to NCSU and destroyed on the road at Clemson prior to the UF game would be common knowledge right? They were decided underdogs againt VA Tech due to media/public ignorance--VTech sucked last year and any team with Marcus Vick was going nowhere due to fact he can't read a book or coverage, so they become one dimensional.
As for the UF/FSU game--Gator offense had 2 good drives all game--they only scored due to the fact the worst FSU team in last 25 years turned the ball over and had a FG attempt blocked and returned for a TD. Their mistakes made that game ugly, nothing UF did was that impressive--certainly not as much as what Clemson did to them.
That bowl game included numerous chip shot misses by BOTH Teams--as I said it was a TERRIBLE BOWL GAME--and if you watched you'd know that PSU's kicker was as crappy as FSU's.
I'm starting to think you sum up UF football the best--you lack knowledge of opposing teams, think that Gators will win because they are "UF Blue and Orange" and really don't pay attention to anything but final scores/stats--which never tell the full story. I know that W's are all that counts but in projecting a team for future, you better see weaknesses and strengths because some of those matchups become changed due to schemes and improved areas on opposing teams or weak areas that allow teams to adjust/exploit your team.
As for Meyer--he's said Florida is the "Harvard of the South", he's hired Doc Holliday as an Assistant and that man is one of the slimiest/dirty recruiting Assistants in America--in any sport, and he's gotten his butt kicked against teams that had equal/more talent--which takes coaching to keep you in games. It's easy to run a cute offense out in Utah, let's see it work in SEC against athletes before we annoint him the next coming. I think ND won the coaching search--getting Weis over Meyer, but the Urban "Legend" will get a chance to prove me wrong. Anyone who has a show dedicated to his coaching career PRIOR to ever coaching a game at UF, is an egocentric jerkoff. And that "Under the Lights" show was on my cable so much I wondered if he would announce his retirement and go straight to Hall of Fame prior to ever getting on the sidelines in Gainesville--I'd say that is talking a bit. Or him calling out players by name and placing blame on them during his Coaches Show--that was really classy of the big "U". Alabama game--on his Coaches show he blamed them all and it's classless. These are kids and he's responsible for performance of them--you do that in team setting, not in public for others to know--you lost, is blaming people going to change the outcome?
He's got a lot to learn about being in charge of a big time program and this year could humble him really quick.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 24, 2006 16:26:58 GMT -5
Good point Miami. I am not sure what to make of that game. Instinctively I would give the edge to Miami in Miami but they are without a bunch of key guys. Their best WR (Ryan Moore?) is suspended for the first two games and their starting tailback is suspended for the FSU game. Also, the injury bug has really hit them hard. Still, Miami returns something like 7 or 8 starters from a defense that was 4th nationally in total defense. Conversely, FSU must replace 7 starters from their defense including almost all of their stars. I heard an analyst on The Herd who has been covering the two teams and he favors Miami still. One thing that was interesting is that he was very impressed with both Weatherford as well as Kyle Wright. Back at the end of last year there were some vocal Cane fans calling for Wright's head on a platter.
Overall, with the injuries and suspensions I would favor FSU on the offensive side of the ball but Miami on the defense. I guess it is strength versus strength.
I just hope it is an entertaining game. Since I dislike Miami and despise FSU, the game needs to be entertaining to enjoy it. The last two games have been absolutely dreadful. Last year's game set football back 20 years.
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Aug 24, 2006 16:37:24 GMT -5
I guess I'm pulling for Miami solely for Clemson's divisional ranking reasons.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Aug 24, 2006 16:37:55 GMT -5
Miami will beat FSU by 2 TD's at least this year--they should've last year. Ryan Moore being out is a blessing--he's a worthless piece of garbage who has no business wearing a Miami jersey and is overrated--another Hamburger All American who was overhyped and isn't very good. Watch out for Sam Shields who will be a star at Miami and Richard Gordon who I expect big things from at the H-Back spot.
FSU is garbage and undisciplined garbage. They have one big time player in Lawrence Timmons who is by far their best LB since Derrick Brooks was there. He's a great player. Their secondary is very poorly coached and their front is soft and flabby.
Offensively, FSU is retarded. They throw jump balls, have no creativity, and Jeff Bowden is the worst Coach in America--at least a top 25 program. Weatherford is garbage, SLOWrenzo Booker, another overrated recruit is crap, and their WR's are talented but don't know how to run routes. Their OL will be fat/out of shape and overmatched.
Special Teams-they'll stink.
If Coker can't get Miami to win this game by 2 TD's he'll not be around because the last loss to LSU was embarrassing but the loss to FSU was more frustrating because Miami should've won by 35 points--at least the way they moved the ball and FSU tried to give them the game. Dropped interceptions, botched snaps, not scoring from inside the 5, etc...that is NOT Miami football and will not be--so Coker's got this game to start a turnaround or they'll find someone who will.
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hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
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Post by hifigator on Aug 24, 2006 16:51:39 GMT -5
RDF, again you make some good points and I don't mean to imply that FSU was some powerhouse, just that it was a very quality win. As for Leak we just agree to disagree, but I totally understand much or your criticisms. The single biggest complaint I would have were the handful of times where he voluntarily went down or out of bounds when he could have had the first down. I honestly hope that that is a thing of the past. And I think it will. As far as throwing the football he is extremely talented. As far as taking care of the ball, whether he gets the credit or the coaching staff does, I am not sure. But they took care of the football on offense and forced turnovers on defense. We led the SEC in turnover margin and were in the top ten nationally in that stat. Leak makes good decisions and doesn't generally force the ball. You just conveniently omit the tremendous difficulty that comes with adapting to a new system. His overall production and execution has been good. And like I said, his performance late in the close games has been solid, from his first game as a freshman when he led us to a comeback victory over Kentucky of all people, to last year's Georgia game where he executed the gameplan to perfection. Also as a freshman he nearly led us to a game winning drive in hostile Miami, but unfortunately "almost" isn't quite the same as actually doing it. Still he has done an admirable job in a very tough situation. As for this apparent attitude which you see in him in the off season, I can honestly say that I don't. And I promise you I am not looking through any tinted goggles.
As far as personnel goes, Nelson has blown a coverage here and there as well as missed a tackle or two. I am not sure what DBs haven't but he came on late last year and all the reports are how much more solid and consistent he is. I agree that I will reserve judgement until he puts the whole package together. As for Joe Cohen, I don't think it is as much "hype" as it is a combination of nagging injuries and lack of focus. After a decorated high school career, he was a "can't miss prospect who played FB and DL in high school. They bounced him back and forth from offense to defense for a while and right when he started getting the hang on the defensive side, he got hurt. I think he was less than 100% the whole next year. He has really hit the weight room hard this off season and looks like a different person. He is BIG but in a good way. I am hoping for the breakout season everyone predicted for him from the start.
As for Meyer's criticisms of the players, I am in the minority I guess. I appreciate coaches who tell it like it is. That doesn't mean you intentionally make it some kind of personal attack, but I am not a person who thinks everything stays behind closed doors.
Lastly, as for my optimism, we can only say that time will tell. I honestly do think that we will have a great year. I see a 9-3 or 10-2 record. Heading into the season, I would see us losing at Auburn and then either at FSU or to Georgia in Jax. I don't think we lose a game at home, but LSU should be the biggest test.
Byt the way, the bet offer is still out there. I'll take 9-3 or better and you have 7-5 or worse, with 8-4 being a push. Well?
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miamihoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 698
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Post by miamihoya on Aug 24, 2006 16:52:20 GMT -5
If Coker can't get Miami to win this game by 2 TD's he'll not be around because the last loss to LSU was embarrassing but the loss to FSU was more frustrating because Miami should've won by 35 points--at least the way they moved the ball and FSU tried to give them the game. Dropped interceptions, botched snaps, not scoring from inside the 5, etc...that is NOT Miami football and will not be--so Coker's got this game to start a turnaround or they'll find someone who will. I had never thought of it that way, but i think you make a good point. If Coker is truly on the hot-seat as everyone claims, then game very well could decide his fate. No game is bigger than FSU-UM, so losing for a second straight year could be the final nail in his coffin, at least as far as fans are concerned. Plus, since they now schedule the game this early in the season (which personally i hate), its will set the tone for the whole year. Personally, I cant make up my mind on Coker. On one hand, as a 'Canes fan, i expect better than the performance of recent years. 3-loss seasons just aren't acceptble by our standards. Additionally, I didnt agree with some of his post-Peach bowls moves, and think he was simply looking for scapegoats, instead of taking responsibility for a embarassing game. At the same time, though, his record during his time in Miami is pretty remarkable. I haven't done research on it, but since Coker arrived in Miami, i would imagine he has the best record of any coach during that time period (maybe Pete Carroll, not sure). He did win two (yes two...Ohio State never won that game) championships and has kept the program competitive. Overall, he has always seemed like a good guy and good coach, who has made an effort to run a clean ship. I guess that is why this season could be the determing one, as far as his legacy. Another three-loss season, and he is going to have a hard time finding much support in South Florida.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Aug 24, 2006 17:05:55 GMT -5
Reasons Coker must win
1. It's not losing--it's HOW they've lost--embarrassing, unprepared, not fired up to play, same people making the same mistakes.
2. It's how they are winning--barely beating bad teams, playing sloppy football, nobody dominating or wanting to dominate on the field. Too nice of an attitude--he never crushes opposing teams and that is a weakness. When your peers like you, you are soft, a loser, when you are despised, it's out of respect/fear. I prefer dominating people and to me, having your backups in a game and playing to score is not classless--it's allowing the kids who practice just as hard as the starters/regulars in rotation to play/enjoy themselves/showcase their talents. I look at Coker's downfall starting in the Rose Bowl when UM should've tried to hang 80 on Nebraska and same could be said about Bob Stoops at OU--the minute he told his team to "Take a knee" against Texas A&M, he lost that attitude of invincibility that was in Norman/around him/his program.
3. Fans aren't coming out to Orange Bowl to watch this team. Miami doesn't draw like public schools and it needs to have a dominant/talented product out there--not a team that wins games 17-10 against mediocre/bad opponents.
4. He had to fire his staff--they were backbiting and out for themselves. Pete Garcia recommended it too and if you know who he is and what he's about--you'd be happy Coker is listening.
5. The reason Coker's record is so great--the talent that was recruited by Pete Garcia and Butch Davis--Coker players are guys who are at the "U" to try and get to the NFL, Butch/Garcia players were at Miami to dominate, win titles, and knew they'd get to the NFL after accomplishing things at Miami.
6. Miami under Davis built a team that arguably could've won 3 straight championships--the team who destroyed Florida deserved/should've played Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl and I'm quite confident they'd have won that game. They did win the following year--and only letdown was not hammering Nebraska by at least 80 points but that is Coker-ball, and following year they played down to level of opponents and yet still were a questionable call from winning their 3rd Straight. TALENT was sick--now you look and while kids are good athletes--they aren't good football players or tough enough at many spots. A Coker player is Ryan Moore--a Butch/Garcia player is Sean Taylor. What's the difference?
Moore rated top WR in Country by gurus and has had his butt kissed all throughout HS.
Taylor was a no-name 1 Star who could play football.
Ed Reed is Garcia/Butch type of player, Devin Hester is a Coker player--guy with talent but doesn't do a thing on the field.
Production is what it's about and Coker's guys don't produce or didn't--now Garcia is in the mix as the "GM" of Miami Football, watch how many kids in this FR class step up and contribute and are throwbacks to what Miami used to be about and should be about.
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