The curious case of Kyle Lowry

[GIGAFAN99]

His stock is dropping, his guaranteed money is in doubt...and his schollie is gone (or so it would seem).

What does 'Nova do if Lowry gets a call that tells him he's dropped so far that he should return? Do they pass on Reynolds, have someone prep, force someone out, or tell Lowry to take his chances?

[theEDGEfactor]

dont think his schollie would be gone??...hes one of the up and coming pgs in the nation..but really dont understand how is stock is dropping but have been hearing the same-think 1 more year at nova would help

[nychoya3]

Oh, come on. If Kyle came back, there would be a slot. There might be an unhappy kid - in fact, I'm sure there would be - but Lowry would have a ship. Still, I say he's gone for good, and Wright knows it. According to Chad Ford, he's the 3rd or 4th PG on the board behind Williams (no one even mentions the laptops anymore), Rondo (ugh), and right there with Jordan Farmar. Even if he drops into the early second, he will get a guaranteed contract. That kid's game speaks for itself. As for whether he could use another year, probably, but it's not like he won't improve in the NBA. He isn't getting any taller, but guys with his toughness and motor don't come along very often. I just don't see the downside as particularly big for him staying in the draft - worst case scenario is he drops to the early 30s and signs a guaranteed deal for a couple years and plays his way into big money. Which he will.

I'm torn about whether I want the Knicks to draft him at 20 or 29. On one hand, I really like Kyle's game, but on the other, I don't wish a spot on that trainwreck on anyone - even a Nova kid.

[SFHoya99]

I think Lowry is gone because he wants to be gone.

But Jay will simply tell one of his other players to prep. Just like Calhoun will do if Boone decides to come back.

[Filo]

Not really a point guard, but too short for much else with his limited outside shot. Hmmm...sounds like the Knicks may trade up for him. ;D

[GIGAFAN99]

I agree with everything here except for that last comment. Other than the hype surrounding him during St. Joes run, what does Jameer Nelson have that Lowry doesn't?

#20 for Nelson was about right and the same would be about right for Lowry. He'll need to learn to shoot better from NBA range, but it didn't take Nelson long to make that adjustment.

[RBHoya]

I have heard that one of their rising sophomores was going to transfer, though I guess it's sort of getting to the point where if you don't announce a transfer soon, they probably aren't going to happen.

They have already made Grant and one of the other kids (Kraidon Woods?) prep a year, so it would be tough for them to make somebody else do the same, but it's possible. I think a transfer would be more likely. Not the most ethical thing, but if Lowry wants to come back I think they'll figure something out, just as they did with getting Sumpter that 5th year.

I think he'll stay in the draft though, and I DO want the Knicks to pick him. He has that old school Knicks demeanor that the current team is lacking, full of primadonnas and drama queens.

[RockawayHoya]

If the Knicks take Kyle Lowry, there is no god.

[idhoya]

They shoulda kept Rod Strickland and they would have this problem. Oh wait, is the still the 80's? My bad.

[wildhoya]

yesterday's paper: www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/colleges/14729908.htm

[MCIGuy]

gigafan99 said:

I agree with everything here except for that last comment. Other than the hype surrounding him during St. Joes run, what does Jameer Nelson have that Lowry doesn't?

How about a jumpshot? How about a better understanding of the game? How about more expereince as a senior? Nelson carried a team or was at least the most important player for St Joes. Can Lowry say the same for his time at Nova? No. Nelson was a First Team All American and Player of the Year? Lowry wasn't. Nelson could score in bunches when he had to. Lowry can't.

On the Realgm forums one fool said that Lowry is the next Allen Iverson in terms of his ability to play. We all got a laugh out of that one.

[RDF]

How about a jumpshot? How about a better understanding of the game? How about more expereince as a senior? Nelson carried a team or was at least the most important player for St Joes. Can Lowry say the same for his time at Nova? No. Nelson was a First Team All American and Player of the Year? Lowry wasn't. Nelson could score in bunches when he had to. Lowry can't.

On the Realgm forums one fool said that Lowry is the next Allen Iverson in terms of his ability to play. We all got a laugh out of that one.[/quote]

Thanks for pointing out the superiority of Nelson's game to Lowry MCI--you brought some sanity to this discussion. They both aren't even in the same sentence. Lowry was the 3rd best guard on that Nova team behind Foye and Ray and Nelson carried a decent, but flawed team to a shot of the Final Four--with game by the way. Lowry jumping into opponents is an offensive foul and will be called so at the NBA level and his scrappy play is great, but if you can't shoot and are offensively retarded, you get Jaque Vaughn status and are basically a guy who comes in for "hustle" and gets called for fouls when you guard opposing players. So mark me down as someone who thinks Mr. Lowry should have or should stay at Nova and come up with something close to a jumpshot.

As for the comparison to Iverson--Lowry's jumpshot isn't as good as ANN Iverson, so let's not even begin to compare him to AI. Why do some people treat AI like he's a guy who comes around every year? He's one of the most unique players to ever play and only reason he's not more celebrated in my opinion is because of the front office clowns in Philly and their inability to build a team around him---as good front offices in the NBA do. Now King thinks he has to build a team like Phoenix has to win--and only problem with that is you need PERSONNEL--and a COACH--but other than that I'm sure "playing small" will work for Billy King.

FREE IVERSON and I only hope he's traded and Philly takes Kyle Lowry so the Nova fans can enjoy his career some more, and realize what a moron King is.

[MCIGuy]

First of all we know King is an idiot. For the last two seasons I wonder why King could not come up with quality late first round picks and quality trades as has been done by Phoenix management. I wonder why King could not have brought in a coach who would let allow a guy like AI to run a quick team that looked to score like D'Antoni. Actually King did bring in that coach in O'Brien but for somestupid reason dumped him for over-his-head Cheeks. I've been envious of Nash's position of being on a team that had offensive firepower and weren't afarid to use it. But after the season ended for the Sixers King came out publicly and stated that he needed to find defenders in order for the Sixers to have the same success they did in 2001. He went on about looking for "tough" players who could stop people. I said to myself if that's the case he needs to blow up almost the entire team because the sixers had guys, at least the important players, who were more offensively oriented. I was confused why King did not approach the more uptempo approach that suited his personnel rather than try to make his guys into the Detroit Pistons. And then what happens? Weeks later, as you pointed out, this idiot comes out all of a sudden as if he had a revelation watching Phoenix play. He realized that there were coaches out there with balls who junked the play-a-true-big-man approach in favor of playing a spread-the-court approach BECAUSE of the personnel that made up the team. What a concept! Instead of trying to be something they were not, the Suns decided to play to their strengths. And this fool Billy King just realized that with an all time speedster like Iverson that may be the way to go?!? Perimeter shooters, athletic forwards who were versatile and could get up and down the court? This is what he wants now four weeks after he was pining away for the next George Lynch-like defender? What a moron. I have been begging for a Phoenix-like squad surrounding AI for years and I don't even get paid to be the Sixers' GM. Yet the guy getting paid the big bucks is just catching on? Get rid of this guy. Better yet trade AI already! Iverson must be cursed to have wasted his career playing for arguably one of the five worst front office decision makers in the game.

As for Lowry there was nothing more annoying than seeing that guy fly into a defender and yet get sent to the free throw line. That was his game in a nutshell. Sure he's quick and tough and brings energy to the floor. But he's also very limited. He won't be able to get away with any of that stuff at the next level. He needs to develop a game. Yesterday.

[HoyaAtHeart]

I don't know what you guys are talking about...

Lowry is one of the toughest players in the country if not the toughest. He can defend, he can rebound (at 5'11), he can get to the cup at will. Not afraid of anyone...will bring it every time he steps on the floor. He IS a point guard...his only weakness is shooting but i'm getting sick of how the draft works...you put these kids through all these workouts and use this as criteria for adding them to your franchise. Kyle Lowry could go 2 for 20 in a workout but if you think when he steps on the floor that he won't be a plus out there you're kidding yourself.

[nychoya3]

You are SOOOO wrong on this MCI. Look, Lowry is obviously light years behind AI in terms of offensive skills. AI is one of a kind. But there is no one I've seen who comes closer to Iverson in terms of his motor and general quickness around the court. The guy dominated games for Nova just on the defensive end and in getting loose balls and the like. It's not a lock that he'll be an all star or anything like that, but it is a mortal lock that he will make whoever drafts him very, very happy. And if he learns to shoot (he did shoot over 40% from 3 last year) and shows a little more in the way of passing ability, we're talking about a top PG. He plays about 6 inches taller than his height.

The Nelson comparison is asinine on several levels. First of all, Jameer played four years of college ball. He was the undisputed point guard on his (very talented) team for that time, given the reigns, no questions asked. Lowry is a sophomore, who missed the first half of his freshman year. He had to share the ball with THREE guards who could play point guard on another team. What he has on Nelson is that he's a better athlete and generally quicker getting around the floor. Will he be as good as Jameer in the pros? Tough to say, but he should be close.

MCI and RDF, you guys are so defensive about AI that when someone mentions his name, you just flip. So some idiot said that Lowry is the next Iverson - that's insane. But he does have similarities and is a hell of a ball player.

[wildhoya]

And if he learns to shoot (he did shoot over 40% from 3 last year) and shows a little more in the way of passing ability, we're talking about a top PG.

pretty small sample there...

8 for a mere 18 three-point attempts in 33 games in which he averaged about 30 min/game.

[SFHoya99]

Lowry is pretty tough, but he's just the last in a long line of quick players that had "Iverson quickness."

He doesn't. Neither did Marcus Hatten nor any of the other guys adorned with the moniker.

That doesn't mean he won't be a decent or even good pro. But he doesn't have ideal NBA size or jumper, and only one of those can be rectified.

There's no way I'd draft him before Marcus Williams, if I'm excluding off the court issues.

[MCIGuy]

nychoya3 said:

MCI and RDF, you guys are so defensive about AI that when someone mentions his name, you just flip. So some idiot said that Lowry is the next Iverson - that's insane. But he does have similarities and is a hell of a ball player.

I don't recall going on a rant about the Iverson comparison. I went on a rant about Billy King. Lowry is soooo far from AI its not worth discussing. That's why I focused on the Lowry-Nelson comparison. And in my opinion Lowry isn't close to Nelson at this time.

NYC, you seem to have a love jones for the Nova guards that reminds me of Ron's love for George Washington players.

I will say its funny that when Lowry tried that penetrate-into-the lane-stuff against an NBA-like frontcourt like Florida's he was totally ineffective.

[GIGAFAN99]

To say Nelson had anything more than an average jumper in college is a stretch though. I understand how the AI comparisons are ridiculous but Jameer Nelson was hardly lights out in college, even in the A-10.

The argument here is Lowry's talent deserves a late first-round pick versus what? MCI, do you think he just shouldn't be drafted at all? I cannot imagine that in this draft there are that many players you would rather burn a late first round pick on than Lowry.

Lowry's quick but more importantly he's built bigger than a Hatten or any of those guys. If you're going to be AI, you have to be so much quicker and tougher than everyone that your size doesn't matter. But Lowry doesn't have to be that way. He's like Nelson, Wesley, Fisher...all guys who chewed hard from the field as rookies but had decent college jumpers and the ability to get to the basket. They ended up developing that shot and developing the ability to use their bodies well to become solid sometimes-starters.

That's where I think Lowry is. He's not lottery but nobody is saying he is. He's the kind of point who will likely play in the league a long time if he puts the work in and can be an asset in an offense where he is not the focus.

[RDF]

I take offense to a guy who can't shoot the ball being compared to Allen Iverson--yeah, I will continue to do so too. Did you actually watch Nova play? The reason Lowry was allowed to penetrate and throw his body into people and get bail out calls was because defenses were more worried about Randy Foye and Allan Ray--and with reason--they were more effective and hurt opposing defenses a lot more.

For those who love Lowry's game--he's a tough player with heart. So was Jaque Vaughn. The NBA level won't see Lowry penetrate because nobody will let him attack the rim--he'll be forced to make jumpshots and if he can't--he'll be on the bench or NBDL developing his game--when he should've been doing this at Nova. Potential is there--but for those who criticize Jameer Nelson for actually developing his game and staying 4 years, maybe you should applaud the maturity of the decision. Can the guy make a team? Sure. If that is his goal, do you want him? I want guys who leave to be GREAT, not to make some money. That's difference between the decision of someone like Lowry and someone like Allen Iverson--who at the same point in his career at Georgetown was light years ahead of Lowry and provided the same spark--plus offensive skills that are 100 times better. If you want a quick, scrappy player, why not go with Dee Brown over Lowry? He's got as much game, and more experience winning.

Sometimes I think fans get caught up in the hype/media love for a guy. Lowry is tough--so was Joey Brown. Neither can shoot the basketball and yet we have fans who criticize someone for saying that this comparison to a future Hall of Famer and one of the best to ever play the sport is "over sensitive"?? Ridiculous.

Tell you what, Chris Wright has more offensive talent right now for the NBA then Kyle Lowry--and so does Derrick Rose, OJ Mayo, and that is just 3 soon to be HS Seniors, but I'm not going to guarantee they will be as good as Lowry until they do so on the court. I expect all 3 to be better, but I'll wait to see it. I've seen Lowry and any comparison to Iverson is so goofy it deserves to be attacked or ignored as MCI chose to do.

I realize many hate the NBA or don't like how guys play, but facts are you can't hide your game--it either develops or you get exposed and Lowry's offensive skill package at this time is garbage and to the point he makes Mateen Cleaves look like Tiny Archibald. But he's scrappy so that is why he should be drafted? Only people like Isaiah Thomas and Billy King would see this as a reason to draft someone or play them.