TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Apr 23, 2005 16:45:22 GMT -5
Anybody been watching it or otherwise following it?
Any comments so far?
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 23, 2005 16:54:59 GMT -5
I just have a couple of thoughts:
1) I think the Vikings reached at #7 to take Williamson. It's not that I don't like him, I just don't like him over M. Williams. That being said, I can't believe the Lions took Williams. Seemed like they could have used other players/
2) I didn't really enjoy watching Aaron Rodgers dangle like that, until I noticed his stupid little soul patch. Then I enjoyed it. I also enjoyed the Packers using their pick on Favre's replacement when they needed help elsewhere.
3) The draft takes foooorever. I was watching it, fell asleep right after the Saints/Texans trade (pick 13) and woke up in time for the 19th pick.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Apr 23, 2005 17:20:12 GMT -5
3) The draft takes foooorever. Its a freakin' miniseries. Its longer than "Roots" or "Winds of War"...or "Taken" for the more modern audience. There is not a more self indulgent event in sports than the NFL draft. If the NBA had a draft that took two weeks in which each team got a couple of hours each to make up their minds who they wanted in the 4th round, everyone would bash the league. But the NFL is All Teflon. No criticism is allowed to stick. All of these NFL analysts sitting around covering this event come across as about as geeky as a Dr Who convention. Its overkill. By the way...who did the Skins pick with their second selection?
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Apr 23, 2005 17:24:37 GMT -5
It pales in comparison to the length of the MLB draft though.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 23, 2005 17:33:24 GMT -5
The MLB draft is FUN. Each round takes about three minutes. There's more time in between rounds than during. It's just that they have 30 odd rounds.
GB are idiots.
I like my Chargers so far. Got a freak pass rusher in Shawne Merriman, who I will forget is a Terp. Then took best NT prospect in the draft, IMO, to play DE/backup Jamal Williams.
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Apr 23, 2005 17:56:21 GMT -5
Am I just biased in wondering why Justin Miller is still available or did his noise ordinance/disorderly arrest at a party last weekend hurt his draft stock more than I expected it would?
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Joe Hoya
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You're watching Sports Night on CSC, so stick around.
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Post by Joe Hoya on Apr 23, 2005 18:26:12 GMT -5
By the way...who did the Skins pick with their second selection? Jason Campbell.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 23, 2005 19:50:30 GMT -5
The first round of the draft took 5 hours and 47 minutes.
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Joe Hoya
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Post by Joe Hoya on Apr 24, 2005 1:14:45 GMT -5
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 24, 2005 2:22:26 GMT -5
Awful, awful pick. What the heck are you thinking, joe Gibbs?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2005 7:40:48 GMT -5
I'm an NFL junike, so the draft could be 10 hours over 10 days and I'd watch every damn second of it. God Bless Mel Kieper.
As for the Mike Williams pick, yes the Lions had other needs, but consider the value of getting Williams locked up at #10 money. Unreal. This also shows they aren't sold on Charles Rogers, so don't expect him to stay after his current contract runs out (one or two more years?). The Lions offense is now STACKED - provided Garcia can meld with Mooch again and recreate SOME of that "magic" they had for a couple years in SF. Their skill position players are nasty, their O-Line is pretty damn good with Woody, Demulling, Raiola and Joyce, and the Cody-Hall-Edwards DE combo is going to provide a decent pass rush. There's still some free agency left to be had, and I'd bet one area they address (and in the draft as well) are LB's and another CB/S.
I think one of the smartest picks so far was the Jets taking Nugent (the Ohio St. kicker) at #47. If they hadn't taken him, Minnesota or my beloved Bills would have. No matter what that IDIOIT Merril Hodge says, you CAN'T just get a good kicker out of free agency. Many teams have discovered that the hard way (my Bills being one of them). I watch entirely too much football (thank you, TiVo and DirecTV), and I can't tell you in the 4 or 5 games I watch a week how many teams get to the 30, have their drive stall, and either punt or go for it on 4th and a decent amount. Horrible. The Jets fans have a guy who's accuracy outside, on grass, in the elements is unreal... so they should stop booing and shut up (yeah... and monkeys might fly out of my butt).
As for Justin Miller, it sucks but those problems DID drop him that far. I wish the Bills had taken him as Nate Dogg Clements' contract is coming up (but I'll live with Roscoe Parrish... great name!), but alas he fell. He's going to be a great get that late in the second round.
The Chargers did have a sick draft. I think they could use more WR help, and its only a matter of time before Rivers and his camp (I stress "his camp") start making noise about sitting on the bench, but they needed to shore up the D, and they sure as hell did that. Great draft so far (thank you New York Giants).
How about the Broncos taking Clarett in the 3rd round? I guess Shannahan (who is about as useless as a coach can get if he doesn't have John Elway) has really let his ego get the best of him with that pick. The scary thing is, Clarett could get 1,000 yards in that system... but then again so could my little sister. 1,000 yards isn't what it used to be, let's be honest. The Broncos have a glut of tailbacks, and I would rather have had Ruben Druroughs (that's horribly misspelled, I know) rather than let him get away. This was an odd pick to say the least.
I was a bit surprised the Pats took another O-Lineman with their first round pick. Up here in Boston, nobody is expecting Teddy Bruschi to come back at all (and I think the Pats should just say "Here's the rest of the money on your contract, stay away, stay healthy, take care of your family, don't be stupid and start hitting heads at 100 miles an hour with beasts of men anymore"), and Ted Johnson and Willie McGiniest ain't getting any younger. That's three great LB's they could be losing over the next couple years, and that defensive system ain't that easy to learn (see Roosevelt Colvin). I understand they lost my boy Andruzzi, but they have so many guys that can play O-Line, it didn't seem like much of a need (Hochstein, Light, Ashworth, Neal, Yates, Koppen). Oh well... they must see something to spend that kinda money on him.
Joe Gibbs has lost it. Maybe Jason Campbell turns out to be a good NFL quarterback, but this pick makes no sense. Who the hell is he going to throw the ball to? Ramsay was RUINED by the Spurrier offense, and just needs to be rebuilt a bit in a normal NFL scheme, and he'll be fine. Gibbs is going through quarterbacks like Affleck is going through engagements. This time last year he brought in that fossil Brunell (who hasn't been good in YEARS) and said "He's my guy. He's going to lead this team real far." And then he benched him mid-season for Ramsay. At the end of last year, what did he say? "Ramsay's my guy. This is his team no matter what happens [this offseason]." And now he gets a guy who's played in a pretty advanced college offense and will obviously be pushing Ramsay from day one? I think this pick spells doom for Ramsay on the 'Skins... and Gibbs flip flops again. Go back to NASCAR and take your nursing home coaching staff with you (although he HAS upgraded it a bit).
Aaron Rodgers made out like a BANDIT. He's going to get groomed by the best in the business, play in one of a few cities in the NFL where the NFL CRUSHES everything else importance-wise, and have a team that - by the time Favre retires and he steps in - will HAVE to have been rebuilt a bit on both sides of the ball. Favre will take the hits this year behind that patchwork O-Line, but when he leaves and Rogers steps in, it should be rebuilt a bit. Especially if they keep Sherman past this season.
Picks that seem odd to me: 1 - Cedric Benson to the Bears. This guy has Eddie George written all over him. He's have over 1,100 carries the past four years!!!! He's going to burn out fast if they even think about giving him the bulk of carries. I love Chicago, respect the Bears and would like to see them compete, but they already had Thomas Jones, and had a lot of other needs that needed addressing.
2 - Same goes for the Bucs with Cadillac. I would have taken Mike Williams. Clayton is going to be a great pro, but Galloway is WAY on the downside of his career. Williams and Clayton make Simms and/or Greise a lot better. Plus, if they aren't sold on Pittman as a back, they could still have gotten Travis Henry simply by swapping second round picks with the Bills. They must have just had Cadillac rated a lot higher than Mike Williams... which I find INSANE. I think Keiper was right to have Big Mike #1 on his board.
I think if I was a GM in the draft this year in the top 3 picks, I would have moved out. None of those guys are worth the money (especially Alex Smith) they are going to get in those 3 spots. If Matt Lienart (again... my bad on the spelling) was in this draft, he would be so far head and shoulders above Smith and Rogers that those two would have fallen into the double digits of picks. Hell, Kieper even acknowledged this week that J.P. Losman would have been the first QB taken if he had been in this year's draft. Ronnie Brown didn't start on his own team. He's going to be damn good, but #2? And Braylon Edwards has the dropsies. And all he can talk about is himself and the money is going to make. I'd rather have the big body in Williams anyway.
Oh well... my two cents.
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Apr 24, 2005 8:37:38 GMT -5
Some Panthers fans (and I'm not one of them) down here were wondering why they took a RB in the 2nd round but apparently the rumor is Davis will at best return at diminished capacity and that he may not be back.
I'm sure Clarett expected to be the first Buckeye drafted and in hindsight it looks like the Jets were thinking about both of their needs in the second round - they just wanted to make sure they had Nugent first.
Maybe the Falcons have a receiver now they can actually get the ball too (since Peerless Price didn't seem to work out too well last year.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2005 10:45:38 GMT -5
Don't get me started on Peerless. He had one good year up in The Lo. How teams have dealt with him show you just how "good" he is:
-Buffalo doesn't even TRY and resign him. He has a monster year - his CONTRACT year - and the Bills are THIN at WR. But do they make a move for him? No. They know he's AT THE VERY BEST a GOOD number two receiver. Not a great one. He gone.
-Atlanta goes two years in a ROW with WR's in the first round. Peerless is tiny, can't get any kind of separation unless he's got a nickel or dime back on him, and can lose his concentration from time to time. Such a waste of money by Hotlanta.
Good assessment on Stephen Davis, Tiger. He's taken a pounding in his career. That's just his style - he's a head-to-head, smashmouth runner when the cards are down. I don't know much about his injury per se, but I do know a small bit about the medicine behind it: if he's getting microfracture surgery, that's trouble. I think its actually what DeShawn Foster had, and he was fine. But a couple Bills in the past had it that I know of, and neither came back. Good luck to Davis in his rehab - I've always liked him, I hope he makes it!
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 24, 2005 12:10:34 GMT -5
I was a bit surprised the Pats took another O-Lineman with their first round pick. Up here in Boston, nobody is expecting Teddy Bruschi to come back at all (and I think the Pats should just say "Here's the rest of the money on your contract, stay away, stay healthy, take care of your family, don't be stupid and start hitting heads at 100 miles an hour with beasts of men anymore"), and Ted Johnson and Willie McGiniest ain't getting any younger. That's three great LB's they could be losing over the next couple years, and that defensive system ain't that easy to learn (see Roosevelt Colvin). I understand they lost my boy Andruzzi, but they have so many guys that can play O-Line, it didn't seem like much of a need (Hochstein, Light, Ashworth, Neal, Yates, Koppen). Oh well... they must see something to spend that kinda money on him. As always, Pats go with substance over flash. The draft is always so unexciting with BB at the helm. That's not a bad thing, just he always manages to make picks that defy the logic of the draft "experts." Noone makes Mel Kiper look like more of an idiot that ol' Billy. I mean, Kiper's like "oh they'll def go for a LB or a CB" and wham...O-line. It's a long term need and you can never have too many versatile big men up front, especially when your game plan features a bruising Corey Dillon and maintaining the pocket for Brady. That and in such a weak draft, the plan seemed to be a longer term one. Huge steal though in raking Baltimore over the coals. The Pats got a 3rd round, 6th round and next years 3rd round pick in exchange for the last pick in this years second round. What idiots are running the Raven's organization? Three picks for the last pick in this years second round. That's crazy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2005 12:54:37 GMT -5
I don't think it was that great a deal by the Pats. They certainly didn't rake the Ravens over the coals. The Ravens came up for the same reason the Pats took Logan - fills a big need at a great value. The Pats didn't get three picks, they exchanged their second for the Ravens third - they "gained" a third next year and a sixth this year. Rounds 3-7 are rounds where teams always make up picks somehow, and I'm sure the Ravens know which lineman (at least the majority) are going to be on the board next year, and it was their assessment this guy was worth the investment. Now its up to him to show it. With the two picks they gave up, he should at least contribute this year, and be a solid starter within a couple years.
I also don't think anyone expected them to go with "flash" at that pick. They are going to be hurting at LB soon - Johnson and McGinest are old dudes, and you have to prepare for the possibility the heart and soul of the defense - Tedy B. - is done. There's more of a need their than at their o-line. Also, I don't understand why everyone was saying they should go defensive secondary. They have the starters and yes, they need the depth, but a lot of teams have proven you can get good secondary depth late in the draft/undrafted free agents.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 25, 2005 9:02:35 GMT -5
I don't think it was that great a deal by the Pats. They certainly didn't rake the Ravens over the coals. The Ravens came up for the same reason the Pats took Logan - fills a big need at a great value. The Pats didn't get three picks, they exchanged their second for the Ravens third - they "gained" a third next year and a sixth this year. Rounds 3-7 are rounds where teams always make up picks somehow, and I'm sure the Ravens know which lineman (at least the majority) are going to be on the board next year, and it was their assessment this guy was worth the investment. Now its up to him to show it. With the two picks they gave up, he should at least contribute this year, and be a solid starter within a couple years. I also don't think anyone expected them to go with "flash" at that pick. They are going to be hurting at LB soon - Johnson and McGinest are old dudes, and you have to prepare for the possibility the heart and soul of the defense - Tedy B. - is done. There's more of a need their than at their o-line. Also, I don't understand why everyone was saying they should go defensive secondary. They have the starters and yes, they need the depth, but a lot of teams have proven you can get good secondary depth late in the draft/undrafted free agents. The Pats did more of the same in the later rounds. Participating in the swap meet and putting themselves in slightly better position next year. Linebackers will be always be a priority, especially when you have an old core with questions, but there was no way the Pats were trading up, nor were they going to get future starters at their position. Therefor, they went with the talent available and are hedging their bets that they'll be able to convert guys, bring them in via free agency or draft them next year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2005 9:49:56 GMT -5
I understand that - but if they are taking guys who will be nicklebacks at best in the later rounds, it might have helped to get an LB who could spell a few guys here and there. As I said earlier, obviously they didn't think to highly of anyone and that's fine. There's still undrafted free agents, another round of cut free agents... every team will fill the gaps remaining after draft day. The Pats'll get their guys, as will everybody else to fill up space.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 25, 2005 10:55:51 GMT -5
Derek Wake out of Penn State wasn't drafted. He should be a nice UDFA pickup at LB.
Jason Campbell had to have been the worst pick. He could've gotten him in the 3rd, much like the JP Losman pick last year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2005 12:26:18 GMT -5
Derek Wake out of Penn State wasn't drafted. He should be a nice UDFA pickup at LB. Jason Campbell had to have been the worst pick. He could've gotten him in the 3rd, much like the JP Losman pick last year. I gotta disagree. Campbell would have gone in the second. His stock was rising fast the two weeks leading up to the draft. As for Losman, you're way, way off. If the Bills didn't trade up to get him at #22, Mike Sherman and Green Bay were going to take him at #25. Many NFL teams had Losman rated near or at the same level as Rivers, Manning, etc. In fact, many teams had Losman rated as the best athlete of the four. If you watched the lead up to last year's draft, they showed a little bit on how Manning and Losman had workouts right after each other (Losman was walking in as Manning was finishing his). Many of the scouts came out of the workout saying Losman looked better than Eli - but the pedigree was too good to pass up. We've seen how good Big Ben was, how average Eli looked (granted both were a function of their supporting cast), we're going to get to see JP this year... think we'll ever see Rivers play?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 25, 2005 12:43:38 GMT -5
I gotta disagree. Campbell would have gone in the second. His stock was rising fast the two weeks leading up to the draft. As for Losman, you're way, way off. If the Bills didn't trade up to get him at #22, Mike Sherman and Green Bay were going to take him at #25. Many NFL teams had Losman rated near or at the same level as Rivers, Manning, etc. In fact, many teams had Losman rated as the best athlete of the four. If you watched the lead up to last year's draft, they showed a little bit on how Manning and Losman had workouts right after each other (Losman was walking in as Manning was finishing his). Many of the scouts came out of the workout saying Losman looked better than Eli - but the pedigree was too good to pass up. We've seen how good Big Ben was, how average Eli looked (granted both were a function of their supporting cast), we're going to get to see JP this year... think we'll ever see Rivers play? You should never use your first rounder on a backup. Even a QB, although I suppose that's the one exception possible because the position is so important. You're honestly telling me you're excited over JP Losman? I can't say I'm excited over Rivers. Frankly, I hated the idea of drafting a QB with a Top 5 pick that year -- the only thing that made it bearable was just destroying the Giants in that trade. We got a starting kicker, backup QB (who we can turn into picks), starting LT, and a pass-rushing OLB/DE. All for Elisha. Either way, none of the QBs from the last two years excite me in any way at all. Rivers could be nice, but I've seen nothing to tell me that he, or JP, or Elisha, will be any better than Brees.
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