aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Apr 7, 2006 7:26:07 GMT -5
One coach and an entire team are being held responsible for: a) a crime that was possibility committted by three members of the team b) the pooor relationship between Duke and Durham c) the fact that the radical left is calling this a hate crime (if a white women is raped by an African American is this a hate crime) d) you have a school is students a famous for their "behavier" at basketball game and are required to sleeps in tents and miss class to get tickets (so much for priorities) e) the schools is feeling guilty about being white and exclusive Sounds fair to me We all know good and well that if this was the basketball team from across town at North Carolina Central, and they had raped a white girl from Duke or Carolina, not only would the whole basketball team be in jail, but the AD AND the president of NCCU would have been forced to resign... It's just disappointing that Duke's dirty laundry is finally being aired out over this rape...many of us that are in 'the know' know that Duke has been ty to Black people for years...not just the Durhamites, but their students and employees as well...
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Apr 7, 2006 16:36:06 GMT -5
c) the fact that the radical left is calling this a hate crime (if a white women is raped by an African American is this a hate crime) If this was meant to refer to my comment above, here's a link to the relevant statute: ag.ca.gov/civilrights/pdf/laws.pdfMany states have hate crime statutes, and there's a federal statute as well. I think the fact that so many state legislatures have passed laws intended to protect citizens against hate crimes demonstrates such statutes are not an invention of the "radical left," unless you consider a majority of Americans members of that group. To answer your parenthetical question, yes, under the CA law I referred to earlier and which is linked above, a black man raping a white woman could indeed be a hate crime if the victim was singled out because of her race. With regard to the Duke situation, the students allegedly asked for black strippers, and allegedly hurled racial insults at them. That is what opens up the possibility of prosecution under a hate crimes statues (if NC even has one -- I don't know and I'm too lazy to look on a Friday afternoon), not the fact that the alleged attackers were of a different race than the victim.
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Post by HoyaLawya on Apr 7, 2006 17:05:05 GMT -5
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Madgesdiq
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Post by Madgesdiq on Apr 7, 2006 17:09:19 GMT -5
c) the fact that the radical left is calling this a hate crime (if a white women is raped by an African American is this a hate crime) If this was meant to refer to my comment above, here's a link to the relevant statute: ag.ca.gov/civilrights/pdf/laws.pdfMany states have hate crime statutes, and there's a federal statute as well. I think the fact that so many state legislatures have passed laws intended to protect citizens against hate crimes demonstrates such statutes are not an invention of the "radical left," unless you consider a majority of Americans members of that group. To answer your parenthetical question, yes, under the CA law I referred to earlier and which is linked above, a black man raping a white woman could indeed be a hate crime if the victim was singled out because of her race. With regard to the Duke situation, the students allegedly asked for black strippers, and allegedly hurled racial insults at them. That is what opens up the possibility of prosecution under a hate crimes statues (if NC even has one -- I don't know and I'm too lazy to look on a Friday afternoon), not the fact that the alleged attackers were of a different race than the victim. I think debating whether this is a "hate crime" should wait until it is determined that a crime was committed. Rushing to judgment based on allegations (and I realize that you are using the word 'allegedly' throughout) ruins lives on both sides. I don't really agree with the classification of 'hate crimes' anyway. It is no different than thought police. Suppose for example, 3 18 year old anti-establishment youths entered a high school and started executing students 1 by 1. Killer A shoots and kills 10 kids in his gym class of all ethnicities and backgrounds and states that he did it b/c they made fun of him because he threw like a girl. Killer B shoots and kills 1 kid while screaming ethnic italian slurs at him. Killer C shoots and kills the gym teacher while shouting a lesbian slur at her. The state has a criminal 'hate crime' law which allows a 'hate crime' to be used as a special circumstance which elevates murder 1 to a crime punishable by death. The state also has a civil 'hate crime law' which allows treble damages (3 times actual damages) for intential torts committed out of hate. Can anyone rationally explain to me, why only students B and C should be subject to the death penalty, and the families of those killed by student A be limited to suing for actual damages instead of treble damages?
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Saxa71
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Post by Saxa71 on Apr 7, 2006 17:09:18 GMT -5
It's just disappointing that Duke's dirty laundry is finally being aired out over this rape...many of us that are in 'the know' know that Duke has been ty to Black people for years...not just the Durhamites, but their students and employees as well...[/quote]
And the Lax Coach & Team should be held responsible for this? As I said in my earlier post "sounds fair to me"
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aggypryd
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Post by aggypryd on Apr 7, 2006 17:34:12 GMT -5
It's just disappointing that Duke's dirty laundry is finally being aired out over this rape...many of us that are in 'the know' know that Duke has been ty to Black people for years...not just the Durhamites, but their students and employees as well... And the Lax Coach & Team should be held responsible for this? As I said in my earlier post "sounds fair to me"[/quote] so are you saying that these players are innocent and the only reason they're being singled out is because of Duke's bad public relations with the Black community in Durham? I wonder if you and Madgesdiq were so amped for justice to play out when Kobe was up on rape charges in Colorado...
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 7, 2006 18:02:03 GMT -5
Something I've wondered from the beginning: what if the roles were reversed? What if a white girl said she was raped by some people on the Grambling football team and the people who raped her were black? Would it be ok to paint everyone black player with the same brush and make them submit to a DNA test but not the one or two white players on team?
I bet Jesse Jackson and Rev. Al would be all over that crying racial profiling and this and that.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 7, 2006 18:02:31 GMT -5
If this was meant to refer to my comment above, here's a link to the relevant statute: ag.ca.gov/civilrights/pdf/laws.pdfMany states have hate crime statutes, and there's a federal statute as well. I think the fact that so many state legislatures have passed laws intended to protect citizens against hate crimes demonstrates such statutes are not an invention of the "radical left," unless you consider a majority of Americans members of that group. To answer your parenthetical question, yes, under the CA law I referred to earlier and which is linked above, a black man raping a white woman could indeed be a hate crime if the victim was singled out because of her race. With regard to the Duke situation, the students allegedly asked for black strippers, and allegedly hurled racial insults at them. That is what opens up the possibility of prosecution under a hate crimes statues (if NC even has one -- I don't know and I'm too lazy to look on a Friday afternoon), not the fact that the alleged attackers were of a different race than the victim. I think debating whether this is a "hate crime" should wait until it is determined that a crime was committed. Rushing to judgment based on allegations (and I realize that you are using the word 'allegedly' throughout) ruins lives on both sides. I don't really agree with the classification of 'hate crimes' anyway. It is no different than thought police. Suppose for example, 3 18 year old anti-establishment youths entered a high school and started executing students 1 by 1. Killer A shoots and kills 10 kids in his gym class of all ethnicities and backgrounds and states that he did it b/c they made fun of him because he threw like a girl. Killer B shoots and kills 1 kid while screaming ethnic italian slurs at him. Killer C shoots and kills the gym teacher while shouting a lesbian slur at her. The state has a criminal 'hate crime' law which allows a 'hate crime' to be used as a special circumstance which elevates murder 1 to a crime punishable by death. The state also has a civil 'hate crime law' which allows treble damages (3 times actual damages) for intential torts committed out of hate. Can anyone rationally explain to me, why only students B and C should be subject to the death penalty, and the families of those killed by student A be limited to suing for actual damages instead of treble damages? Ahhhh!!! Bad bar exam flashbacks!!!
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Madgesdiq
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Post by Madgesdiq on Apr 7, 2006 18:09:25 GMT -5
It's just disappointing that Duke's dirty laundry is finally being aired out over this rape...many of us that are in 'the know' know that Duke has been ty to Black people for years...not just the Durhamites, but their students and employees as well... And the Lax Coach & Team should be held responsible for this? As I said in my earlier post "sounds fair to me" so are you saying that these players are innocent and the only reason they're being singled out is because of Duke's bad public relations with the Black community in Durham? I wonder if you and Madgesdiq were so amped for justice to play out when Kobe was up on rape charges in Colorado...[/quote] I was amped for the facts to come out so I could make a determination. There aren't a lot of facts here yet, no one has even been charged with anything. In the Kobe case, after he was charged, you could at least read the pleadings and go from there.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Apr 7, 2006 19:25:08 GMT -5
I think debating whether this is a "hate crime" should wait until it is determined that a crime was committed. Rushing to judgment based on allegations (and I realize that you are using the word 'allegedly' throughout) ruins lives on both sides. I don't really agree with the classification of 'hate crimes' anyway. It is no different than thought police. I said "that is what opens up the possibility of prosecution under a hate crimes statute," I never said this was or wasn't a hate crime. I don't think that's rushing to judgment. I certainly don't think my post ruined anyone's life. You may have problems with hate crime legislation, but the overall point I was trying to convey is that democratically-elected legislators in many American states have put such laws on the books. These laws are not being shoved down anyone's throat.
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Saxa71
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Post by Saxa71 on Apr 7, 2006 22:10:44 GMT -5
Something I've wondered from the beginning: what if the roles were reversed? What if a white girl said she was raped by some people on the Grambling football team and the people who raped her were black? Would it be ok to paint everyone black player with the same brush and make them submit to a DNA test but not the one or two white players on team? I bet Jesse Jackson and Rev. Al would be all over that crying racial profiling and this and that. You can count the the Jackson & Sharpton would have been all over this. I am surprised that they have not been heard from on the Duke situation. Seems to me that Sharpton was involved in a alledged rape case which he was never held accountable.
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Saxa71
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Post by Saxa71 on Apr 7, 2006 22:21:21 GMT -5
It's just disappointing that Duke's dirty laundry is finally being aired out over this rape...many of us that are in 'the know' know that Duke has been ty to Black people for years...not just the Durhamites, but their students and employees as well... And the Lax Coach & Team should be held responsible for this? As I said in my earlier post "sounds fair to me" so are you saying that these players are innocent and the only reason they're being singled out is because of Duke's bad public relations with the Black community in Durham? I wonder if you and Madgesdiq were so amped for justice to play out when Kobe was up on rape charges in Colorado...[/quote] At least Kobe had his day in court which is more than I can say for the Duke LAX team.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Apr 8, 2006 0:53:13 GMT -5
And the Lax Coach & Team should be held responsible for this? As I said in my earlier post "sounds fair to me" so are you saying that these players are innocent and the only reason they're being singled out is because of Duke's bad public relations with the Black community in Durham? I wonder if you and Madgesdiq were so amped for justice to play out when Kobe was up on rape charges in Colorado... At least Kobe had his day in court which is more than I can say for the Duke LAX team. [/quote] To say that Kobe got his day in court is over-stating things. That trial was a circus - and it was proof that this type of circus atmosphere can benefit both the defense and the prosecution - the media got snipets of information indicating that the alleged victim might have been promiscuous and they ran with it - compeletely destroying the victim's credibility. If charges are filed the Duke players will get their day in court, its still very disurbing, if true, that a sports team could build up the culture that would permit an act like that or permit a member of the team to send out an e-mail like that.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 8, 2006 1:16:33 GMT -5
Kobe's "trial" never got off the ground. The second the prosecution/cops accidently leaked the name of the accuser, the trial was never going to happen. It doesn't matter if she was telling the truth or not, once her name became public (which it shouldn't have, according to Colorado laws), it was over, as the public pressure drove her to withdraw charges.
Also, Kobe's lawyers played the media like a fiddle, but we'll never know whether or not that would have resulted in a biased jury because of the prosecutions/cops screw up that leaked the accusers name.
[edited for better word choices. ]
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Apr 8, 2006 6:17:45 GMT -5
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 8, 2006 8:07:10 GMT -5
Kobe Bryant had a trial? I must have missed something.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Apr 9, 2006 14:59:48 GMT -5
Anyone know what will happen to the four-team ACC lax tournament now that Duke won't be in it? My guess is UMD and UNC will play for the chance to knock off UVA, but I guess they could just cancel the thing, too.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Apr 9, 2006 19:36:39 GMT -5
One coach and an entire team are being held responsible for: a) a crime that was possibility committted by three members of the team b) the pooor relationship between Duke and Durham c) the fact that the radical left is calling this a hate crime (if a white women is raped by an African American is this a hate crime)d) you have a school is students a famous for their "behavier" at basketball game and are required to sleeps in tents and miss class to get tickets (so much for priorities) e) the schools is feeling guilty about being white and exclusive Sounds fair to me So in the midst of an argument that is presumably attempting to suggest that we should be reasonable, and we shouldn't prejudge the entire team because of the possible actions of a few, you throw in a gratuitous and wholly inaccurate reference to the "radical left"? Thanks to the link that hoyalawya posted, we can see the postion of the State of NC on this precise subject: In North Carolina, a hate crime is defined as a crime or violent incident perpetrated against someone solely because of his or her race, religion, or national origin/ethnicity. Hate crimes target individual victims, but they also victimize the entire community by creating fear, anger and mistrust.Isn't North Carolina a Red State? Or perhaps you consider the "radical left" to be anyone who isn't a member of the the extremist, evangelical, "born again" Christian right?
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 9, 2006 20:03:32 GMT -5
I think you forgot that John Edwards destroyed NC from the palm of his hand by chasing all doctors and healthcare workers out of the state, oppressing Christians, and whoever else. Blame him for everything.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Apr 9, 2006 20:22:16 GMT -5
Seems that the lax team isn't the only one that has had some issues w/ athletes being out of control: www.newsobserver.com/1185/story/426963.html[thought I'd see if I could keep this focused on trashing Dookies, rather than have it turn into some kind of politicial fight. FOCUS PEOPLE]
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