Hoya 2007/2008 Power Lineup

[hoyastrong]

I didn't really mean to compare Jessie with Marc Egerson necessarily, I'm just saying that's an example of what could happen, to anyone. Personally, I hope all 5 of those guys can still be the starters in the end, but there is some serious talent coming up and JTIII is gonna play whoever will win him games.

And I'm pretty sure marky-marc got benched well before he left, perhaps one of the reasons why (aside from the birth of a child, haha).

[Eurostar]

hoyastrong said:

I didn't really mean to compare Jessie with Marc Egerson necessarily, I'm just saying that's an example of what could happen, to anyone. Personally, I hope all 5 of those guys can still be the starters in the end, but there is some serious talent coming up and JTIII is gonna play whoever will win him games.

And I'm pretty sure marky-marc got benched well before he left, perhaps one of the reasons why (aside from the birth of a child, haha).

Egerson wasnt benched as much as Summers proved that he needed to be in the lineup. Egerson's last starting game was @fairfield, a game in which I went to. Summers dropped 17 and was the only one who seemed like he came to play (Sapp had 14, everyone else in single digits). The kid looked like an all-star in that game (as he should have vs. Fairfield)... it was his coming out party. Everyone who saw that game realized that he not only was going to be something special, but he already was special and needed to play a ton more than he was. He started the next game. Though, Egerson continued to get more minutes than Summers for the next few games.

The situations are different, in that Sapp is a much more proven asset than Egerson was. Wright might need to have 3-4 of these types of performances to supplant the incumbent in this case

[hoyastrong]

minionhoya said:

The situations are different, in that Sapp is a much more proven asset than Egerson was. Wright might need to have 3-4 of these types of performances to supplant the incumbent in this case

Agreed, but why not Freeman and some others also?

[SirSaxa]

Lots of interesting views on this subject.

so why not one more? Here goes.

There is one open starting position on the team -- Jeff's.
As we know, the difference between the two forward slots in the JT3 offense is not that dramatic. Secondly, just because Jeff operated as a point forward for the most part, doesn't mean the team will follow the exact same formula without Jeff. JT3 takes advantage of the talent he has.

OK, so we all know that Roy and DaJuan are starting up front.
The candidates for the other starting forward are:
Pat
Vernon
maybe Austin
that's probably it.

My guess is Pat. He's a senior. He came on really strong last year. He deserves it.
The counter argument to that is he's so good coming off the bench. Well, if he's that good JT3 will want him right from the get go.

OK, backcourt. Wallace and Sapp just went to the Final Four.
One will be a senior, 4 year starter. The other, a junior two year starter....
in an offense AND defense that are quite sophisiticated and take time to learn.

There is no way these guys are not starting at the beginning of the year.

However, during practice, it will become apparent to everyone... JT3, staff and team... who is doing the best job. Many of us played on teams in HS, College, whatever. Basketball, baseball, football and more. Everyone knows who the best guys are. No one has to be told. If Freeman and/or Wright are burning it up sooooo much that it becomes obvious they are among the top 5, they will start to get the minutes.

My guess is that Wallace and Sapp will start all year. Their minutes could decrease, and possibly their crunch time minutes -- but ONLY if the new guys are proving it every day.
That's just a guess. I don't think there's any question that Wright is quicker than Wallace, but Jon has a LOT of savvy, a killer shot, and ice water in his veins... he's been there and done it. Let the new guys come along behind the starters, take the pressure off them, let them develop.

The only possible exception to the above (IMHO of course) is that open starting slot. JT3 will start Roy and DaJua. If Freeman is that awesome, he could have a shot at the 3. somehow, I don't think so.

I would bet Roy, DaJuan and Pat start. Vernon comes in for Roy or Pat. Maybe Freeman becomes the "DJ" 2/3.

What is truly remarkable is that we have soooo much talent on this team.

November needs to come sooner!

[GIGAFAN99]

Agree with everything SirSaxa said.

And the good news is we WANT Sapp and Wallace to have decreased minutes. Those guys were out there for pretty much the entire game come tournament time with Rivers spelling both for a combined 10 minutes or so.

That's not going to happen this year. Guard depth is exactly what we needed and we got it. Any combination of Rivers, Wright, and Freeman is going to be superior to last year's Jessie Jon and freshman Jeremiah semi-rotation.

So yeah, just get to November.

[Deleted]

mciguy said:

jerrylh said:

Sapp starts. No way it is Austin Feeman. The major reason is defense. We really don't know how good Wright and Freeman are on the defensive end and those skills are vital for JT3.

If they are so vital then how come Wallace is the starter his first season or two when guys were blowing by him? And Summers wasn't exactly a shutdown defender himself? He isn't as good a defender as Ewing but Summers got the starting job. Why? Likely because he was more talented on offense.

That is easy to explain. Wallace arrived with JT3 and no one knew the system and JT3 had no one else really to build on and run the team at the time

If you will recall, Summers did NOT start at the beginning of the seaon; it was Egerson. After Egerson, left there was really no one else to put there. the only other alternatives, PE2 were Spann and Macklin. Somehow, Spann was never going to play and Macklin wasn't ready. For some reason JT3 wanted PE2 coming off the bench. I also don't agree with you on his defense when he first got in. He got burned as frequently as Summers.

If you look at this year's team, Crawford was infinitely a better offensive threat than Rivers, yet it was Rivers who came off the bench first. Why??? Because of Defense.

Since we have 3 solid established guards in the backcourt, Freeman and Wright are going to show they can play defense.

Sure, if either Freeman or Wright can absolutely light it up onoffense from the get go, they will get lots of playing time. However, I have watched JT3 for 6 years and defense is a key.

Jerry

[MCIGuy]

jerrylh said:

That is easy to explain. Wallace arrived with JT3 and no one knew the system and JT3 had no one else really to build on and run the team at the time

Well, no one knew the system that first year so Wallace didn't have an advantage there over Cook and Ray. As far as I could tell Ray was a far better defender. That's why III put him in late in games when the team needed stops. But he never started Ray.

If you will recall, Summers did NOT start at the beginning of the seaon; it was Egerson. After Egerson, left there was really no one else to put there. the only other alternatives, PE2 were Spann and Macklin. Somehow, Spann was never going to play and Macklin wasn't ready. For some reason JT3 wanted PE2 coming off the bench. I also don't agree with you on his defense when he first got in. He got burned as frequently as Summers.

I don't think Ewing got burned early on. Not like Summers. Still bringing up Egerson's departure doesn't mean a thing since the more gifted offensive player Summers took the starting job way before Egerson left.

If you look at this year's team, Crawford was infinitely a better offensive threat than Rivers, yet it was Rivers who came off the bench first. Why??? Because of Defense.

I think its fair to say that III played Rivers more, particularly early on as he was still learning the defense, because Rivers was easily the better ballhandler. While the green Rivers did have some rough moments at firsrt turning over the rock, he was still far better capable of dribbling the ball than Crawford and III needed someone to take the burden off of Wallace and Sapp on that front. Putting him in early was worth it because III likely knew it would pay off splendidly down the road (later in the season). Also Crawford is only better at Rivers in one area: the standstill, open jumpshot. Rivers is better at handling the ball, passing, drivin....all key things to make an offense run better. So to suggest Crawford was infinitely a better offensive threat is an exaggeration. I guess you meant scoring threat instead. There's a little bit truth there I suppose. But it was clear the Hoyas had enough fire power from the perimter in most games. They needed more ballhandlers and passers.

[Deleted]

mciguy said:

jerrylh said:

Well, no one knew the system that first year so Wallace didn't have an advantage there over Cook and Ray. As far as I could tell Ray was a far better defender. That's why III put him in late in games when the team needed stops. But he never started Ray.

I would be willing to bet that Wallace picked up the system much faster than the others and that was why he started. He was admitted to Princeton and is a top student.

Also, Rivers, can NOT productively penetrate, because when he did, he was totally unable to finish and more often then not, just threw the ball away. When he penetrated, everyone knew that he wasn't going to shoot. I suspect that he will be a much improved player this year.

also, remember, that the Ashanti Cook as a junior was not nearly as good as he was as a senior.

Look, I am not saying that Offensive skills aren't important, I am just saying that Freeman and Wright will have to become good defenders to get a lot of extra minutes.

[lichoya68]

what agreat discussion to be having yes yes yes is it february yet go hoyas

[Deleted]

actually, this discussion is relatively meaningless. I have jull confidence, the JT3 will make the right decisions. afterall, What do I know, really???

[joey0403p]

All great problems to have, and I like most or all have faith in JT III to figure out what works best by the time March / April hit. A few other comments:

1 - I remember Joey Brown, he was one of my favorite players growing up. Though all I really remember about him was he ran the point, wore #10, and used to get a handful of rebounds a game. What was / is the knock on him? I was a little too young to remember a lot about his game.

2 - I heard a rumor in ATL after we lost to OSU that Rivers actually ran the offense better than Jon / sapp in practice, but that he hadn't been able to replicate it in games. I have nothing to support this mind you - just something I 've heard. Wondering what others had heard. IMO unless Rivers makes a drastic improvement in his play I think he keeps the same role he had last year "defensive specialist".

3 - I know most of the posters have talked about Sapp and freeman etc... but I don't want to under value Wallace. I'm always comfortable when he is on the floor. And I think he increases his averages this year / is more aggressive with his shot. We should be able to play the two man game any time we want with Roy and Jon...

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Freeman & Wright off the bench gives our second line some offense as well. If Dajuan, Roy & Jon score on the first line and then you get Wright & Freeman in the second group, we won't have the drop off we had last year. When Jeff would hit the bench with Jon and we brought in Pat & Jeremiah, that was a huge offensive drop off. The balance that Wright & Freeman can provide will greatly improve our second group. It is going to be very interesting but I would agree that the guards will be the same starters as last year and we can also go small & press now.

[Deleted]

Exactly when is midnight madness???

[SFHoya99]

mivcevich said:

Freeman & Wright off the bench gives our second line some offense as well. If Dajuan, Roy & Jon score on the first line and then you get Wright & Freeman in the second group, we won't have the drop off we had last year. When Jeff would hit the bench with Jon and we brought in Pat & Jeremiah, that was a huge offensive drop off. The balance that Wright & Freeman can provide will greatly improve our second group. It is going to be very interesting but I would agree that the guards will be the same starters as last year and we can also go small & press now.

I think Freeman and Wright off the bench will also make for some intriguing game-time decisions for Thompson. When we've struggled offensively, it seems to me that most of the time Thompson waits it out and when he makes a quick or odd substitution it is usually for defense.

Now though, he's got real offensive options he's never had on the bench. DJ Owens was a shooter, not a creator, Ray Reed and Rivers have mostly been defensive stoppers, Pat is more of an energy/defensive guy, etc.