dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
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Post by dreamhoya on Nov 30, 2004 18:53:24 GMT -5
this won't be a season long slump...
chi
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JimmyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Hoya fan, est. 1986
Posts: 1,867
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Post by JimmyHoya on Nov 30, 2004 18:57:51 GMT -5
It was a nice first half, but we still haven't even beaten Davidson yet...ain't it a LITTLE bit early to be saying that?  |
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Nov 30, 2004 19:51:54 GMT -5
It was a nice first half, but we still haven't even beaten Davidson yet...ain't it a LITTLE bit early to be saying that? We've now spanked Davidson and showed some serious shooting ability for the second straight game. I think it's safe to say that this team is showing signs of improvement already. |
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Nov 30, 2004 19:56:53 GMT -5
Definitely signs of improvement, and signs of hope. It seems that the shooters may in fact be there for this team, although it will probably be tough to get many of the same open shots against Big East defenses.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 30, 2004 19:58:29 GMT -5
To be the wet blanket, it does sound like real improvement. But the better shooting opens everything up, and shooting is streaky. It's easy to mistake improvement with hot shooting, and even easier to mistake regression with poor shooting.
On the other hand, this was a fun game to listen to. Wish I could have seen it.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Nov 30, 2004 20:17:31 GMT -5
This was a quality job by our guys. They will improve over the course of the year, but if the effort is there every night we won't be disappointed often.
Any thoughts, hoya8?
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Nov 30, 2004 21:44:00 GMT -5
we have shooters taking good and planned shots we will surprise we will surprise  |
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 1, 2004 0:12:09 GMT -5
To be the wet blanket, it does sound like real improvement. But the better shooting opens everything up, and shooting is streaky. It's easy to mistake improvement with hot shooting, I would buy that if in the past even those horrible shooting Gtown teams (which is the norm since I've been following the program) had had shooting nights from the perimeter as Gtown just displayed in BACK-TO-BACK games. Since I can't recall hardly any other games in which the Hoyas have done so well from the perimeter I'm going to chalk it up as a good sign that the Hoyas are improving FINALLY in that facet of the game. People can talk about BE defenses and how Davidson doesn't match up all they want. My response is for you to go to the library archives and pull up all the records of the Hoyas' boxscores against even worse quality early season opponents (the vast majority of whom had to come to D.C. to play the Hoyas rather than the Hoyas come to them). You won't find shooting performances like that. If the Hoyas shot above 50% it was mostly the result of turnovers which led to fast breaks or inside dominance of the Hoyas big men against inferior defenders. But to shoot like the Hoyas did from the perimeter? To have that many assists? To have that few turnovers? To deliver such a beating to a quality, experienced opponent on their own homecourt? Such displays have been rare for the Hoyas for the longest time. According to JT3 and Chvotkin's talk there were freakin' tailgaters for Davidson in the parking lot. It was a big game for them, on their own home turf where they have (had) a long winning streak. And yet the Hoyas kicked their tails. Words fail me. |
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 1, 2004 8:42:32 GMT -5
I would agree with True Blue. This is solid but we need to settle down until we can show shooting against pressure from a squad like the Illini. That will be a big measuring stick.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 1, 2004 9:03:15 GMT -5
I would agree with True Blue. This is solid but we need to settle down until we can show shooting against pressure from a squad like the Illini. That will be a big measuring stick. What? Settle down? Is anyone suggesting we will win the BE? Some of us who have been following the program for awhile understand the team has a long way to go but at the same time appreciate the immediate improvements in some area. I've been keeping up with the Hoyas for 15 years and trust me to have two back-to-back games in which the Hoyas show such marksmanship from the perimeter (with such a high quantity of shots) is unheard of. Having the vast majority of the Hoya baskets come off of Hoya assists is also not the norm and yet the Hoyas have now done that for three straight games. To have two back-to-back games in which Hoya turnovers are very low? Unheard of! Three games so far and not one 20 plus turnover outing. Even with our cupcake schedules in the past we would still be sloppy with the ball. So pardon those of us who are a little giddy about the early development of the Hoyas. Especially considering how gloom and doom this board would have been if the Hoyas had lost by 25. Hey, the Hoyas have much to work on. But if I may pat myself on the back let me point out that I have written in the past that these players aren't as bad as people make them out to be; that with good coaching and good game plans they could actually be respectable and competitive and capable of upsets. I think by the time the BE season rolls along they will be ready. It many not translate into a bunch of wins but the quality of play on the floor will be better. |
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1803
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by 1803 on Dec 1, 2004 9:15:47 GMT -5
It sounds like the Hoyas turned in a quality performance against a decent opponent. I thought we were going to lose to Davidson last year, and I thought it was possible that we could lose last night. We are a team that did not qualify for the NIT last year, so a road win like this has to be seen as a plus.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 1, 2004 9:25:32 GMT -5
I would buy that if in the past even those horrible shooting Gtown teams (which is the norm since I've been following the program) had had shooting nights from the perimeter as Gtown just displayed in BACK-TO-BACK games. Since I can't recall hardly any other games in which the Hoyas have done so well from the perimeter I'm going to chalk it up as a good sign that the Hoyas are improving FINALLY in that facet of the game. People can talk about BE defenses and how Davidson doesn't match up all they want. My response is for you to go to the library archives and pull up all the records of the Hoyas' boxscores against even worse quality early season opponents (the vast majority of whom had to come to D.C. to play the Hoyas rather than the Hoyas come to them). You won't find shooting performances like that. If the Hoyas shot above 50% it was mostly the result of turnovers which led to fast breaks or inside dominance of the Hoyas big men against inferior defenders. But to shoot like the Hoyas did from the perimeter? To have that many assists? To have that few turnovers? To deliver such a beating to a quality, experienced opponent on their own homecourt? Such displays have been rare for the Hoyas for the longest time. According to JT3 and Chvotkin's talk there were freakin' tailgaters for Davidson in the parking lot. It was a big game for them, on their own home turf where they have (had) a long winning streak. And yet the Hoyas kicked their tails. Words fail me. MCI, I can't see anything yet, because we ain't on tv, but from hearing, I hear a lot of improvement. I'm impressed. But I also realize that if the shooting isn't there, the backdoor cuts aren't, the defense may not be, etc. Great shooting opens up a lot. Great shooting night. I'm hopeful. Maybe you're right and they will keep it up. While I don't know if this will be the best shooting team in years or not, I do know they will have some off nights. It will take some time for me to come to terms with becoming a "live by the three, die by the three" team. ;D ;D |
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Dec 1, 2004 9:34:02 GMT -5
Good shooting performances breed confidence in other facets of the game. This was an excellent win, and I see no reason why we can't increase the expectations just a little bit.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,494
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Post by YB on Dec 1, 2004 9:37:45 GMT -5
This was a great win, to be sure, over a tough mid-major at their place. Shot lights out, obviously.
We do have a ways to go, defensively, and in the non-3 pointer offense. But you have to admit, we've made some strides. I think the Temple game was a wake-up call for the guys and they seem to have redoubled their efforts.
Keep working hard guys.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Dec 1, 2004 13:02:02 GMT -5
I agree, this was a solid win for our team, but I'm not quite convinced of a big improvement just yet. Although I have only attended the Temple game so far, it seems that we are living and dying by the three. While it's great that we have been shooting lights out in consecutive games for once, I want to see more inside scoring. We took twice as many threes as we did two-pointers last night, which is a bit of a head scratcher. Since I wasn't there last night, I'm not sure if their zone was just leaving us open at the perimeter, or if we weren't really doing much offensively and just threw up threes as the shot clock wound down. Proving that we can put up points when our threes aren't falling would make me feel more comfortable and is the next step for us.
That being said, the fact that our shooting is improving is a great sight to see. We can't keep up this torrid pace all season, but if we can prove ourselves as a threat from the perimeter, as SFHoya99 pointed out, it opens up a world of possibilities for us.
It's also great that we have players not named Bowman that can blow up with a big game. I know he can't do it every game, but I'd like to see Wallace keep it up, stay aggressive, and take the open shot when he has it. DO, take notice!
Great win for our guys and looking forward to Penn State.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 1, 2004 13:46:43 GMT -5
I agree, this was a solid win for our team, but I'm not quite convinced of a big improvement just yet. Although I have only attended the Temple game so far, it seems that we are living and dying by the three. While it's great that we have been shooting lights out in consecutive games for once, I want to see more inside scoring. We took twice as many threes as we did two-pointers last night, which is a bit of a head scratcher. Since I wasn't there last night, I'm not sure if their zone was just leaving us open at the perimeter, or if we weren't really doing much offensively and just threw up threes as the shot clock wound down. Proving that we can put up points when our threes aren't falling would make me feel more comfortable and is the next step for us. That being said, the fact that our shooting is improving is a great sight to see. We can't keep up this torrid pace all season, but if we can prove ourselves as a threat from the perimeter, as SFHoya99 pointed out, it opens up a world of possibilities for us. It's also great that we have players not named Bowman that can blow up with a big game. I know he can't do it every game, but I'd like to see Wallace keep it up, stay aggressive, and take the open shot when he has it. DO, take notice! Great win for our guys and looking forward to Penn State. Great post and I'll add that if we show some consistent 3- point shooting in a solid victory against Penn State, then it will give Illinois something else to think about. I'm not saying that we are ready to upset Illinois or even play them close, but I do know that we will need to be shooting lights out and also be able to backdoor cut our way to some easy baskets for that game to be competitive. A good showing against Penn State just might make their perimeter defenders overplay us a little and open up the way for some cheap points. I'm not ready to say that we have a chance in that game, but when this offense is executed correctly it allows you to overcome some serious talent shortages. My screen name is HOYAPLAYA and YES, I'M AN OPTIMIST!!!! |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 1, 2004 14:31:30 GMT -5
MCI, I can't see anything yet, because we ain't on tv, but from hearing, I hear a lot of improvement. I'm impressed. But I also realize that if the shooting isn't there, the backdoor cuts aren't, the defense may not be, etc. Great shooting opens up a lot. Great shooting night. I'm hopeful. Maybe you're right and they will keep it up. While I don't know if this will be the best shooting team in years or not, I do know they will have some off nights. It will take some time for me to come to terms with becoming a "live by the three, die by the three" team. ;D ;D Of course some nights they will be on and some nights we will be off. I'm not expecting 16 three pointers every night. In fact I hope we will have more of a mix and not rely so heavily on long range jumpshots. Eventually JT3 has to allow or ask guys like Bowman, DJ, and Green to attack the hoop. |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 1, 2004 14:36:07 GMT -5
From what one poster of the Davidson board said, Green did attack the hoop quite a bit, and Davidson doubled/zone collapsed, leading to Green's seven assists and a bunch of threes from the open man.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 1, 2004 14:39:12 GMT -5
From what one poster of the Davidson board said, Green did attack the hoop quite a bit, and Davidson doubled/zone collapsed, leading to Green's seven assists and a bunch of threes from the open man.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 1, 2004 14:40:44 GMT -5
I agree, this was a solid win for our team, but I'm not quite convinced of a big improvement just yet. Although I have only attended the Temple game so far, it seems that we are living and dying by the three. Those are two different things. One can agree that the Hoyas can't live by the three while at the same time realizing that this team has made a big improvement in terms of how it plays. Low turnovers. Better looks at the hoops. Better passing. Better spacing. An improvement from behind the arc. Better rebounding. A much higher percentage of made shots coming from assists. Georgetown would whip up on St Leo back in the day and still not execute nearly as well in all those important facets. And even in the cream puff part of the schedule last season they didn't look impressive in terms of how they played as a team (I went to three or four of those cream puff games and came away frustrated each time despite the wins). So I think I can safely say this team has made an improvement. Doesn't mean they will beat Illinois or anything but they are definitely doing things better. |
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