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[YB]

Bahstin- I don't think the point here is necessarily that you get dressed up, but that you really loudly lead the fans in being rowdy and creating a home-court advantage for us. I think that was more the point.

We still have a ways to go for an ideal home-court advantage, obviously- but the t-shirts and energy from the student section this year is markedly better this year. I commend the students for their efforts- keep it up and GET PEOPLE TO COME TO THE GAMES!!!!

[PushyGuyFanClub]

GUHoya2007 said:

The only people that might have some understanding of how I feel are probably CAHoya, FLHoya, and possibly JerseyHoya.

What I have come to realize is that there is probably no other student who has the same kind of passion for Georgetown Basketball and Georgetown athletics in general as I do. There are certainly some very passionate people like CAHoya and FLHoya, but I just think Im on a whole nother level.

It's lonely at the top.

I remember in high school kids who used to argue about who was more "punk rock."

[CAHoya07]

Since my name keeps coming up, I guess I'll join in on the fun here.

BTW, 007's long, emotional post nearly made me cry.

Bahstin raises an interesting question: what makes a real fan? For the record, I was in the front row at Temple game with a big afro wig and aviators. However, last year (before I got infected with 007's enthusiasm), I never showed up early enough to even sniff the front row, never dressed up, and only painted my face once, before the Duke game.

Am I a bigger fan now than I was last year? Maybe, although I also don't have the confines of doing crew this year, and can devote more time to being a fan. But that doesn't matter. As long as you're in the student section somewhere, cheering hard, you're a good fan in my book. That's all we can ask.

However, after seeing it now from both sides, I see a division between the wild, vocal fans in the first 5 or 6 rows, and those sitting farther back. A lot of times, we'll start a cheer up front but by the time it gets past the 5th or 6th row, it dies. Is it because they can't hear it anymore? Maybe. Is it because some of them just don't feel like cheering? I don't know, I hope not, but perhaps that as well sometimes.

Is it because there is a lack of leadership? BINGO.

This is where the Hoya Blue guys come in. I disagree to an extent with 007's assessment of what their role should be. The people that show up to the games decked out and painted up usually don't need a group like Hoya Blue to get into the games. Their individual enthusiasm makes it so it doesn't matter who else is going to the game, they are gonna be there getting loud no matter what.

Instead, and 007 hinted at this a little, the Hoya Blue board members' job is to ORGANIZE and LEAD the masses (I hope) of the student section before, during, and after games. Get us unified, make us a student section to be feared. Whether or not they feel the need to dress up like a clown like us is irrelevant.

Organize and lead with a sense of passion for Georgetown athletics. This means organizing fun social events and activities to get people into our sports teams. This means sending out e-mails and doing other little things to get people pumped to go to the game. It means doing everything you can to create a fun, raucous environment at the MCI Center and get as many people as possible in the student section cheering at the same time.

They have failed at times and have succeeded at times. But I agree with 007 that it seems the current group just doesn't share the same passion as a lot of us do. They're good people and mean well, but it seems as if they just don't go the extra mile for Georgetown sports as they should. This group is MUCH better than the group last year, which barely did anything other than have pre-games that barely anybody showed up to. However, Hoya Blue can still do so much more in promoting Georgetown athletics and getting people excited to go to games.

Next year, I, for one, plan to either be a board member for Hoya Blue or a board member for a new basketball student section club. I believe we can do a lot more to get people into all Georgetown sports, but basketball in particular, and I want to be in a position to lead and organize rather than sit back, waiting and wishing for things to happen.

That concludes my long, rambling post. Hope it still makes sense. And as far as getting credit for the shirts, don't worry about it. You'll get your due.

Hopefully in the form of a loud, raucous sea of gray behind the hoop at basketball games this year. ;D

And finally, 007, stop lumping together Jersey and me with you on the T-shirt effort. We all know you have done 100x more work than any of us in regards to that.

[GPHoya]

It is bonus time on Wall Street and allocations time at lots of law firms so the subject of giving and getting credit is in the air and not just on the Hoya Talk Board.

In my experience, people never complain that they have not been given enough credit, but do not hesitate to complain that someone else has been given too much credit. In this way, it is possible to assert that it is not about me as I really don't care how much credit I get. From the jaundiced and cynical perspective of someone who receives these complaints, I have to say that I have never been fully convinced by these protestations.

That said, the people who do the work should get the credit and it is completely human to be even more annoyed when someone else is given it.

In my experience with volunteer activities, the only real capital one has to offer is recognition to the volunteer. Sometimes you have to give it before it is deserved in the hope that it will induce the service that you need. When you are trying to get a volunteer organization going, it is often necessary to give others credit for things you do yourself. Nothing destroys a volunteer organization faster than people building resentment of its leaders or perceiving the true agenda to be self-aggrandizement. Self-deprecation and over-crediting under-achievers end up being leadership techniques. There is some stuff in the New Testament about this that Georgetown may still be teaching. The last first stuff helped to build a pretty big volunteer outfit that has gotten into most of its trouble by forgetting what got it there in the first place, but then that really is OT.

IN any event, thanks for the t-shirt idea. It is first rate and has my freshman son more excited about spirit than his older brothers were who are bigger hoop fans. Keep trying to figure out how to include as many people as possible and focus on the positive, including the recognition that the shirts have received from the HHC and in the media. EVeryone is doing a great job and I am proud of all who are involved with the initiative in any way.

[GUHoya07]

Bahstin, YB is right, you're missing the point. What I meant by my post is that the leaders of such a group should be the most devoted and loyal fans. They dont necessarily have to paint themselves up and dress up but they certainly have to be the ones who care the most about increasing student support for the team and the success of the basketball program in general.

And, sorry if I touched the wrong button with you and you have some phobia of people who dress up and go all out, but I have always thought that some of the most dedicated and loyal people are the ones who do that because it means so much to them that they want to do it to show their support for the team and increase spirit.

Plus, when the rest of the student section sees that at games I think it really increases the excitement level a lot. I remember a post after the Temple game where a student mentioned being worried that he would have to explain the boring atmosphere to his visiting sister. However, he mentioned that there is a group of people that are among the best fans in college basketball according to him. I think being willing to go all out is what separates the great fans from the good fans.

[GUHoya07]

DanMcQ said:

GUHoya2007:

The email I posted part of came frmo the Hoya Hoop Club and, more specifically, Michael Karam, its president (the one who gave credit to Hoya Blue).

If you have an issue with HB getting credit where it is apparently not due, why not take it up directly with the source of the comments, Michael Karam?

Send him an email through Hoya Unlimitied:

[e-mail]

I see your point that it was probably more you and a couple other guys' effort than HB as a whole, but perhaps he doesn't know that. What's the problem with him congratulating the students and HB for being organized enough to get a whole section wearing the same shirt and supporting their team?

Dan, I know Mr. Karam personally from attending Hoop Club meetings and I'm quite positive that he knows who put in the work to get this accomplished.

Maybe the root of my resentment is from lots of built up anger towards the athletic department. I don't want credit for this, but ever since I wanted to start a new group to do the things I feel a student booster club should do I feel like I've been forced to give up that idea and just settle for slowly trying to improve Hoya Blue. For that reason I still dont fully associate myself with Hoya Blue and I don't like when the AD puts a spin on things to make them look successful. I would love to see HB given credit for successful things, but not for stuff that was developed by someone prior to any contact with the board and in cooperation with other students who arent on the board.

I'm starting to think that I should just shut up and let people say what they say. However, there is a lot of stuff that the people on this board don't know about. The result of that is that I sound like I'm trying to cause problems and want to be acknowledged.

Whatever, this is just becoming stupid and Im tired of it.

[Cambridge]

Not to chime in here, but I might as well...

From conversations with 007 I can say that it seems the larger part of his frustration is not the lack of credit...so much as the general loss of agency that troubles him.

He basically came up with this idea. Garnered alumni funding for seed money. Went out and did it. Then took it to the atheletic dept and Hoya Blue...who loved the idea. Great things happened and great t-shirts were distributed...

However, increasingly 007 was cut out of the loop. Ms. Frank consistantly failed to contact 007 about updates, preferring to communicate solely through the HB structure. This meant that the shirts came in -- which 007 had been waiting for for a few weeks -- and he did not find out for a couple days because no one bothered to tell him.

Now, as someone who works in marketing and advertising, I can definitely relate to sting of idea theft. When it happens it hurts a lot. But it hurts even more, when someone loves your idea but then takes the project out of your hands...without officially doing so.

Basically, the moral of the story is -- Hoya Blue should be happy that they have such a dedicated and proactive board member as 007. All of them should be so dedicated. With this in mind, it is in their best interest, as well as the best interest of the organization, for them to respect 007's work and embrace him as much as they can. This doesn't mean that they have to trumpet the T-shirts as 007's idea, but at least privately they should officially acknowledge his hard work and dedication.

[chinatownfanclub]

we all know that hoya blue is an organization that has left a lot to be desired in the past (think people worried about putting things on their resumes or great ideas and no follow through). However its a lot easier to give the credit to Hoya Blue as the student organization than just "students" in general. If you don't like how the organization works you have two choices: 1) take it over 2) start a new one. Since HB has a lot of advantages over a startup and you are already part of the organization I suggest your best bet GU is to just take it over (a coup)

[TrueHoyaBlue]

Agreed... I can't think of anyone that would make a better chair, or has a better record to run on!

[jerseyhoya34]

In fairness, the HB guys have moved a sofa into the student section for this season. Let's not all pile on them all of a sudden.

[FLHoya]

JerseyHoya34 said:

In fairness, the HB guys have moved a sofa into the student section for this season. Let's not all pile on them all of a sudden.

That reminds me, who won Student Fan of the Game at the Temple and Citadel games?

[Joe Hoya]

GUHoya2007 said:

What I have come to realize is that there is probably no other student who has the same kind of passion for Georgetown Basketball and Georgetown athletics in general as I do. There are certainly some very passionate people like CAHoya and FLHoya, but I just think Im on a whole nother level.

That's an incredibly unfair thing to say, bro. Some of us lived and died with the team before you even got here. You can be a "super fan" without being a "condescending fan".

[HoyaLawya]

Worldwide HoyaBlue, Inc. ;D

Just noodling around with ideas here, but ..........

Since HoyaBlue is the officially recognized student spirit group, and since its mandate extends across all athletic teams at the Hilltop (hence the generic "G" and Hoya Blue shirt handouts of the past which are non-specific to any one sport), and since it's so dang tough to try and start up something totally new and not officially approved, maybe the route to go for boosting hoops attendance, spirit, organized cheers, involvement is to go the route of a "subset" within the general HB umbrella.

Call it the "Hoya Gray Division" of Hoya Blue. (How apt ... visualize it rising Venus-like from the foamy "Sea of Gray"! Pardon the Boz-like digression.)

Populate its leadership with avid student fans of HOOPS.

Then give them the mandate that they're free to take the initiative and RUN WITH IT and make it clear to the AD and everybody else that they're the "go to guys" within HB for hoops.

A possibility?

[hoyabinx]

I just wanted to chime in and let everyone know what I think Kurt (007) has done for Gtown.

In the 3 years I have been here I have known almost no one who cared about Gtown Basketball. Student sections were small, HB hardly did anything at all (or failed to do anything that reached the common student) except for the road trips, and the apathy was ridiculous. Now my class (2005) I think is pretty much lost to the idea of Gtown basketball, but the younger kids are getting infected with the enthusiasm of Kurt and his buds who are equally ludicrous fans, and this is all from someone outside of HB for the most part. So, I just wanted to say that he has helped get people who are marginally into gtown athletics genuinely interested and i wouldnt be surprised if by his senior year (maybe with the help of a few quality seasons) the student section was the size of the temple game's section every game.

I always thought we needed some lunatic to get things jumpstarted and i am glad someone has decided to do it.

So i guess my point is, don't get jaded if you quest, keep up the good fight man, regardless of the rigidity of the Gtown hierarchy, because you are most definately making a huge difference. And after i graduate ( ) I look forward to looking across court and seeing a crazy ass student section.

[YB]

Here here, binx.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Back to the costumes and face painting, some people are face painters (ex...Puddy) and some people aren't (me and many others). I respect one's passion to face paint and dress up but I can yell just as loud as they can and I hope to have plenty to yell about this year. Let us not judge one another on our desire to dress up or not, but how many games we show up to and cheer. Go hoyas!

[CAHoya07]

ColumbiaHeightsHoya said:

Back to the costumes and face painting, some people are face painters (ex...Puddy) and some people aren't (me and many others). I respect one's passion to face paint and dress up but I can yell just as loud as they can and I hope to have plenty to yell about this year. Let us not judge one another on our desire to dress up or not, but how many games we show up to and cheer. Go hoyas!

Couldn't have said it better myself. Facepainting can be pretty cool though. Except if you're Puddy.

[Nevada Hoya]

007, I'm sure the ones that count (i.e., the 1000 board members) greatly appreciate what you have done. ;D

[SaxaCD]

Some of us, must Nevada! We even sent the kid money. God knows if people sent me money when i was at GU, it would have gone to a few kegs emblazoned with "we are Georgetown" instead of tshirts to be handed out to strangers....

: )

[nodak89]

SaxaCD85 said:

Some of us, must Nevada! We even sent the kid money. God knows if people sent me money when i was at GU, it would have gone to a few kegs emblazoned with "we are Georgetown" instead of tshirts to be handed out to strangers....

: )