what wash state fans think of us

[hoyarooter]

So because one guy on a Wazzu board with nothing to lose takes a chance on looking like a genius if the impossible happens, we should hate on Wazzu? Please.

This team is extremely well coached and will not beat itself. They don't have a lot of individual talent, but the whole is definitely better than the sum of its parts. Yes, they could lose to ORU (unlikely) or Vandy (possible - a team like Vandy has a shooter's chance against anybody), but if we see them in East Rutherford, you can count on a grind it out low scoring game that won't be easy.

[lichoya68]

gime a break folks gimme a breakk bring em on love to get them go hoyas beat belmont first and then WHO KNOWS WHAT TOMMARROW OR SAT OR THE NEXT FEW WEEKS WILL BRING IF GU IT THE TEAM WE SAW IN NYC THEN WATCH OUT OFLKS WATCH OUT THEY DIDNOT BEAT NO SLOUCH TEAMS.. GO HOYAS BEAT BELMONT PPLEASEEEE AND THEN ONE BY ONE ;D

[Big Dog]

Look, don't pretend that Washington State isn't a strong team capable of making a run. They are. They are extraordinarily well coached, very patient, and cautious with the basketball. They played in arguably the toughest conference in the country and acquitted themselves very well. They will not lose to Oral Roberts, and they will prove frustrating to any team that sees them for the first time b/c of their unorthodox style. The fact is that as ugly as the Bennett style is, it works, and has worked in the tournament in the past. That Wisconsin team had minimal Grade-A athletic talent, yet got to the Final Four by stunning a team like Arizona, for example. Give them respect.

ALL OF THAT SAID: Of all the teams seeded higher than them, I have to believe that we are the worst possible matchup they could get. There are so many elite teams who rely on playing up tempo basketball--these are the types that can get flustered when a Bennett team dictates the tempo (think the upset of no. 1 Arizona in 2000 in the second round).

We, by contrast, and entirely accustomed to having to work the shot clock, play slow down, run through an offense, and play a disjointed, low-scoring game. We would not be disturbed by the way they play, and we would have a TREMENDOUS athletic advantage.

I firmly believe that they would be bona fide upset pick to get to the Final Four or Elite 8 if they were placed in a bracket with a team like Kansas or UNC--especially Roy Williams and his "secondary break" offense, which I can't imagine being comfortable against a sluggish defensive team.

And I think if we play them it will be a very difficult, close game. But we ARE better than they are.

Still, I'm not picking them to lose to ORU or Vandy. I expect to see them in NJ if we get that far ourselves.

[SFHoya99]

Georgetown Pomeroy Rank: 6
Washington State Pomeroy Rank: 33

Now, I'm not saying Pomeroy's system is perfect - it isn't. Heck, Oklahoma is still #38. But still, of the top 3 seeds, the worst Pomeroy ranking not belonging to Washington State is Oregon at 21, then Pitt at 12.

It isn't WSU's pace -- Pomeroy adjusts for that. It's that they have the 61st best offense in basketball.

That SUCKS in the tourney. Sometimes, your D is good but people hit shots. Like us versus ND. You have to be able to score.

Washington State only had four games with an offensive efficiency over 120 all year. Georgetown had 13. And our defenses are ranked about the same.

Now, they are better than Vandy or Oral Roberts. But they also are very susceptible to an upset because they usually cannot keep up with a team on fire.

[hoyarooter]

Perhaps. I don't dispute SF's faith in Pomeroy's numbers. What I do know, however, is that I personally watched Washington State erase double digit deficits against USC twice this season (and USC is a 5 seed, so they aren't chopped liver), both times in Los Angeles, and win one of those games. So while I would like our chances against WSU, I don't think it's wise to underrate them.

[AvantGuardHoya]

My only problem with this thread is its heading. I'm reading what only one WSU fan thinks. Would you want another school's fans to believe that, say, what 80's wrote speaks for Hoyas in general? I'm just sayin' ....

[Big Dog]

sfhoya99 said:

Georgetown Pomeroy Rank: 6
Washington State Pomeroy Rank: 33

Now, I'm not saying Pomeroy's system is perfect - it isn't. Heck, Oklahoma is still #38. But still, of the top 3 seeds, the worst Pomeroy ranking not belonging to Washington State is Oregon at 21, then Pitt at 12.

It isn't WSU's pace -- Pomeroy adjusts for that. It's that they have the 61st best offense in basketball.

That SUCKS in the tourney. Sometimes, your D is good but people hit shots. Like us versus ND. You have to be able to score.

Washington State only had four games with an offensive efficiency over 120 all year. Georgetown had 13. And our defenses are ranked about the same.

Now, they are better than Vandy or Oral Roberts. But they also are very susceptible to an upset because they usually cannot keep up with a team on fire.

None of this disputes what I've said. We are better than they are. I will expect to win if we play them. But the tone in this thread from some that there is no way they'd give us a game and that they're terrible--it just isn't justified.

And let's not go overboard on Pomeroy. I love it, and its better than RPI. But if Illinois or Clemson are better than Washington State, or there are 50 teams better than Vandy, then I've never seen a basketball game in my life. Numbers only explain so much.

[SFHoya99]

Does every post have to be a direct contradiction of the preceding?

As for the caveats about Pomeroy, they are right there in the first full sentence. As for being certain Washington State is necessarily better than some teams, you may be right about Clemson and Illinois. But aside from beating Zona, Wazzu hasn't done much.

[HoyaLingus]

velvetelvis said:

David Dupree just picked Wash St. to beat us and to advance to the sweet 16 on the Kornheiser show.

You neglect to mention that Kornheiser goes on to lambast Dupree for being 'absolutely insane' for that pick.

[VelvetElvis]

I also failed to mention that Dupree sounded like he was either high on Meth or Heroin! Seriously, he sounded half in the bag. At one point he paused for about 10 seconds and TK actually said "Dave, you realize this is live radio, right?!?"

[Cambridge]

Being the best defense in the Pac-10 is like being the hottest stripper in Morgantown. Big whoop.

I think them actually playing defense stuns enough Pac-10 teams into losing. I watch a ton of Pac-10 basketball and by my estimate roughly 6 out of 10 shots on any given night is an uncontested layup.

Not breakaways, but driving into the lane...big man stands still...nobody collapses = two points.

That being said, of all the teams in the Pac-10, Wash St is the only one who lives and dies by its defense. It lives to frustrate it's opponents with something akin to a 4-1 zone. It is stiffling in the Pac-10.

That being said, their offense is laughable. I mean, honestly, the most pedestrian, clanking, wreck of a disaster. Hell, it's an insult to the beauty of college basketball. In other words, Big John will probably love it.

[Big Dog]

cambridgehoya said:

Being the best defense in the Pac-10 is like being the hottest stripper in Morgantown. Big whoop.

I think them actually playing defense stuns enough Pac-10 teams into losing. I watch a ton of Pac-10 basketball and by my estimate roughly 6 out of 10 shots on any given night is an uncontested layup.

Not breakaways, but driving into the lane...big man stands still...nobody collapses = two points.

That being said, of all the teams in the Pac-10, Wash St is the only one who lives and dies by its defense. It lives to frustrate it's opponents with something akin to a 4-1 zone. It is stiffling in the Pac-10.

That being said, their offense is laughable. I mean, honestly, the most pedestrian, clanking, wreck of a disaster. Hell, it's an insult to the beauty of college basketball. In other words, Big John will probably love it.

Would you apply that to UCLA? I probably have seen even less Pac 10 action than you do (because its hard watching games on Fox Sports Net--particularly when they aren't in HD), but I'd be shocked to learn that a Ben Howland team doesn't focus on defense.

Seriously though, I know everybody hates it, but the Bennett style emphasizing defense has now worked at two schools with no real college basketball tradition to get them to prominent places in their conference and a prominent seed in the tourney. Wisconsin couldn't really score either in 2000, but they got to the Final Four. We'll see where Wazzu goes.

[Cambridge]

UCLA plays good defense, but my point was more that Wash st is the only team in the conference that lives and dies by the defense. That's all they are. UCLA can overcome bad defensive nights with their offensive options. Wash St. could never.

UCLA contests shots and rebounds well, but they are not stiffling by any stretch of the imagination. Wash St. can be stiffling and force you out of your game.

However, I think that UCLA and Wash St. both feast on the fact that most opponents in their conference love to run and gun...and just run right into the buzz saw of the D. When the game slows down to a half-court slug fest, most Pac-10 teams just collapse.

[Nevada Hoya]

I'll have to ask my son what he thinks, as he has a masters from Wazzu. Oh, that's right, my son doesn't like bball.

[geedell]

daytonahoya31 said:

It's pretty infuriating.....I had to actually read a few paragraphs just to be sure this guy was serious.


I've got Belmont over Georgetown, so they aren't even an issue in my bracket. Belmont has the size to defend GTown, go 9 deep, lead the nation in 3 point fg defense, and have won 10 of 11.

I think Belmont's guards get hot, as GTowns guard's are their weakness. Don't be fooled by GTown's top 10 FG defense; that's because of their interior D, not their guard D.

This year, everyone seems to think that the top 8-9 teams (UCLA, Florida, NC, OSU, Wisc, Kansas, A&M, GTown, and you could add Memphis I suppose) are a huge step above everyone else. I think one of those teams loses in the first round. I am picking GTown, as it would probably be the biggest plausible upset of those teams.


So Cougs beat Oral Roberts, GW, Belmont, and lose to North Carolina. Belmont gets to the sweet 16 because BC and Texas Tech always suck in the tournament. North Carolina over Texas because Texas is too young, much young than Syracuse was when they won, and NC is still one of the 2 most talented teams in the nation, despite recent losses.

That's funny

[redskins12820]

bigdog said:

Look, don't pretend that Washington State isn't a strong team capable of making a run. They are. They are extraordinarily well coached, very patient, and cautious with the basketball. They played in arguably the toughest conference in the country and acquitted themselves very well. They will not lose to Oral Roberts, and they will prove frustrating to any team that sees them for the first time b/c of their unorthodox style. The fact is that as ugly as the Bennett style is, it works, and has worked in the tournament in the past. That Wisconsin team had minimal Grade-A athletic talent, yet got to the Final Four by stunning a team like Arizona, for example. Give them respect.

ALL OF THAT SAID: Of all the teams seeded higher than them, I have to believe that we are the worst possible matchup they could get. There are so many elite teams who rely on playing up tempo basketball--these are the types that can get flustered when a Bennett team dictates the tempo (think the upset of no. 1 Arizona in 2000 in the second round).

We, by contrast, and entirely accustomed to having to work the shot clock, play slow down, run through an offense, and play a disjointed, low-scoring game. We would not be disturbed by the way they play, and we would have a TREMENDOUS athletic advantage.

I firmly believe that they would be bona fide upset pick to get to the Final Four or Elite 8 if they were placed in a bracket with a team like Kansas or UNC--especially Roy Williams and his "secondary break" offense, which I can't imagine being comfortable against a sluggish defensive team.

And I think if we play them it will be a very difficult, close game. But we ARE better than they are.

Still, I'm not picking them to lose to ORU or Vandy. I expect to see them in NJ if we get that far ourselves.

I agree completely. I've seen Washington State play and they are always going to be a tough out because I really don't see them ever getting blown out. I saw the first UCLA/Washington State game and they gave UCLA all it could handle. They are very effecient (but unspetacular) on offense and they just grind it out every game. This is exactly the kind of team that in the past as a lower seed would be overlooked and could easily pull an upset. That being said, because GTown can play slow as well and really doesn't get frustrated by long possesions, I like our chances. We'll need to hit some 3s to open it up a bit because they like to pack it in and I'm sure their chief concern will be taking away Roy and Green inside. Then again that's the concern of every team we play and they've been pretty hard to stop

[Big Dog]

Pomeroy's blog has an interesting breakdown of the chances of each team in the region to advance. Both Texas and Michigan State come ahead of WSU.

For the record, I'd LOVE to see Izzo knock of the Tarheels in Round 2.

kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/bracket_breakdown_south_east/

[hifigator]

I found that very amusing, and just like several of you have said, I too am thinking long and hard about taking Oral Roberts over Wazzou. I think that settles it.

[hifigator]

cambridgehoya said:

Being the best defense in the Pac-10 is like being the hottest stripper in Morgantown. Big whoop.

[/u]

I think them actually playing defense stuns enough Pac-10 teams into losing. I watch a ton of Pac-10 basketball and by my estimate roughly 6 out of 10 shots on any given night is an uncontested layup.

Not breakaways, but driving into the lane...big man stands still...nobody collapses = two points.

That being said, of all the teams in the Pac-10, Wash St is the only one who lives and dies by its defense. It lives to frustrate it's opponents with something akin to a 4-1 zone. It is stiffling in the Pac-10.

That being said, their offense is laughable. I mean, honestly, the most pedestrian, clanking, wreck of a disaster. Hell, it's an insult to the beauty of college basketball. In other words, Big John will probably love it. [/quote]


That's classic.

[brooklynhoya]

This is a little late, but always nice to see the aftermath of stupid prognostications.