GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,083
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Post by GUHoya07 on Nov 27, 2004 15:00:33 GMT -5
Yeah, well the picture quality is normally very good on a full screen, and this time it isnt. Either way though, Im very happy that they are continuing to provide these highlights.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 27, 2004 15:11:53 GMT -5
If you freeze the video at second number 20, you can see 007 in the face paint, and I am to 007's right and up a row in the Hoya hat.
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Post by iLLbanianKid on Nov 28, 2004 0:51:56 GMT -5
Will there be highlights everytime Hoyas play against other teams on the Hoyas Official Website? Because i'am looking forward to make a Jeff Green Rookie Mix, the reason it's cuz we went to the same school and played basketball together.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GUHoya07 on Nov 28, 2004 1:39:43 GMT -5
Yeah, there should be highlights after every game, at least I hope so. I can also get you the highlights from the Temple game because Jeff had some sweet plays in that highlight as well.
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Post by iLLbanianKid on Nov 28, 2004 2:41:09 GMT -5
Yeah, there should be highlights after every game, at least I hope so. I can also get you the highlights from the Temple game because Jeff had some sweet plays in that highlight as well. well if you can hit me up on AIM: ShpatSoYeah msn messenger: Shpatb@hotmail.com, or post the link here somehow...thanks a lot dude.
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Post by hoya8 on Nov 28, 2004 19:49:04 GMT -5
As an old alum who followed Georgetown from the first days of the first John Thompson Era, I had the opportunity to go to the Citadel Game with my sons. These are people who grew up with Georgetown Basketball. As a former season ticket holder this was my first game back in a long while so I thought you might be interested in my perspective of where GU is.
This was an horrible performance. I am not sure what was more striking...how far we have fallen or how bad we are. It was embarassing to see how bad we are. As I said to my boys, now young men at Wake Forest and Virginia, it was an embarassment to the Wilson, Ewing, Mourning, Harrington, Sweetney eras.
Let me start with an analysis, an analysis framed on seeing the best of georgetown basketball from derrick smith to eric smith to charles smith.
The Team. This is by far the worse team ever at Georgetown. Even the team that went to the 1969 NIT ( jack mcgee's) was better. The next time they set a pick, will be the first time. Horrible offensive scheme. Somehow the princeton offense was lost in transit on the amtrack between NJ and DC.
The upper classmen. Cook and Bowman are undisciplined. Athletic ability but obviously under wraps through the new offense? more on that later. Neither has the court sense of a jackson, smith or wingate. Owens looks lost, Reed can't shoot and plays minimal defense...this is no Mike Riley. the rest are role players at best. None of them would have challenged Horrace Broadmax for a position. Actually the Yugoslavian, looked more game aware and agressive than any of the upperclassmen.
The freshmen. Green could be a good power forward who should play in spurts and not at center. He needs experience. Gibunka(sp?) is fast ...you wonder what he did to get into thompson's dog house. Wallace is the most disciplined and game mature of the group and has potential in two years. The one hope I thought was the big fellow Hibbert, I had heard he looked good against Temple. Boy that was eye openning. Hibbert is slow and unathletic. So slow you wonder if he is hurt. He has absolutely no vertical lift and is beaten most times to his position. Usually a position that puts him behind the basket. On one play he tried to front a smaller player and was beaten by the pass for a dunk and a foul. Not even an attempt at disrupting the play with a swat or block. The power dunk to the basket is foreign to him. He make boumje-boumbje look athletic. Jonathan Edwards had better court sense. One must ponder, what is he doing in a georgetown uniform. The other two are fringe players at best. Ralph Dalton in his first year back would have ate him up.
The Coaching. Lots of talk with his assistants at every break . But as Red A. said on radio last week, you pay the head coach to make decisions so why is he talking to the other flunkies on the bench. Their offense does not exist. Setting up on the perimeter to take threes is not actually running plays. Reminds me of the Reggie Williams days where JT would tell the team in the huddle, ...just stay out or reggie's way. The difference is, there is no reggie on the floor. You wonder if aka the 'Hoosiers', he has decided to make them pass till the last minute. No cutting, no picks, no backdoor plays, ...pretty dismal.
The fans...albeit it was thanksgiving break, but come on this is Georgetown, we always had lack of attendance the Capital Center and MCI, but these juvenile games of kids shooting for bucks is somewhat distressing.
What do we need? An overhaul of talent. As a coach, I can see the frustration in Thompson, you have been dealt a deck of cards with this team that simply can not compete. My prediction is that they will be lucky to win a game in the Big East this year. The only hope he has is to play his freshmen and sophs and find out who he can keep. Not sure if it is possible but he needs to drop at least six of his scholarship players to have any hope.
The only hope is that JTIII has a multi year contract to rebuild. This team is going nowhere fast.
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Nov 28, 2004 20:09:35 GMT -5
WOW!!!! WOW!!!! and one more WOW!!!
Let's just give up now and forfeit every game for the rest of the season. There are a lot of problems with this team, but some of the things you said are complete insanity.
The worst team ever at Georgetown??!!!! That is crazy!!! They are lacking a lot, but to say the worst team ever is complete madness. They are worse than the 3-23 '71-'72 team??? MCIGuy, where are you??!!!!
Why the insults of Hibbert? The kid has played very well so far. No one ever expected him to be very athletic or jump out of the gym, that doesn't mean that he can't be a very effective player. The kid has taken enough verbal lashings from fans even before getting here, and now even after playing solidly you seem to feel that he should have his scholarship taken away.
And this "they will be lucky to win a game in the Big East this year". WHAT???!!!! Are you serious? Have you seen what is going on over at St.Johns? Have you seen some of the things people post over on redmen.com? If we can't beat St.Johns this year I will be shocked. I also expect us to win a few more games, but thats not the issue right now.
I understand the frustration, but lets step away from the ledge. Things are far from ideal, but they could be worse.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by YB on Nov 28, 2004 20:12:50 GMT -5
Hoya8, I hate to call you out here, but I had to say something about your rant.
Number 1, reminder that this is not a board to bash our student-athletes. And you bashed these young men quite a bit.
Everyone knows they will struggle at the beginning of the season. They are very green inside and our perimeter players are absorbing a new system. But to say they are hopeless is a bit apocalyptic, don't you think?
2 games into this season, we've seen lots of encouraging signs that, given time to be coached and play together, this team can grow into something nice. No one's expecting miracles this year, just improvement- and I remain very confident we'll see quite a bit by the end.
Our freshmen look solid. Our vets seem to have a new and energetic attitude. And, whether you like it or not, today's college ball team has to be able to shoot from the perimeter.
The three point line in college is too close not to be able to shoot from there. The Princeton offense always featured good 3 shooters but the previous GU offense did not. Therefore, JT3 has to, in a sense, start from scratch and reinvent the wheel before they can grow together. Further, since both teams thus far have collapsed on anyone invading the paint for us, we shall have to shoot over them for us to gain respect and space down there. In essence, establishing the perimeter game to open up space for cuts and post-ups.
I know. I was there at courtside too.
Your message reminded me of the old SNL skit with the "Angry Old Man":
"In MY day, we didn't use latex condoms..... we used RABBIT SKIN! And sure, our wives bore 15 children, but we liked it! We loved it!"
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 28, 2004 20:16:58 GMT -5
I'd cut the new poster some slack, 07 and YB.
I know a fair share of older alumni that are just fit to be tied with the style of play the team has run over the past 10 years (from Iverson going forward), devoid of any set plays or defensive patterns. Some very good friends of mine (who went to their share of Big East and NCAA tournament games over the years) simply won't watch the team anymore because of the poor play. If the above account is accurate, I'm sorry to hear that the 04-05 team is exhibiting similar tendencies.
I think there was some hopeful anticipation that a Princeton style would be initiated this year to alleviate the undiscliplined style of play associated with recent Georgetown teams. At least from the radio reports, it does not appear that a motion offense is even on the table, which is unfortunate. Maybe the team doesn't respond to it, or maybe the skill-set just isn't there for it.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GUHoya07 on Nov 28, 2004 20:24:00 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I cant cut people slack for posts that are that ridiculous. Complain all you want, but to insult our players and claim that this is the worst team ever in Georgetown History is absurd. That is just complete madness.
You mention friends who refuse to watch the team because of their poor play. Well, those people obviously aren't truly devoted to the program. Yeah, they can be Editeded off, I understand that, but to completely boycott Georgetown Basketball and stop caring because you are dissapointed with their recent play is not acceptable in my opinion. Real fans stick by their teams through thick and thin. Its easy to be a fan when you are going to the championship game three times in four years.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 28, 2004 20:24:30 GMT -5
Let's all step back from the ledge. If you want to see pass and screen away (Princeton offense), you'll have to wait for a man-to-man defense to see it. If you're expecting to see us run the offense like Princeton did against UCLA, again, you'll need to wait. I don't think anyone said that Friday's game was like watching the second coming of a group of Hall of Famers, so, if you're expecting that on the court, let's tamper our expectations.
As for the older alumni, I share some of their bitter attitudes with respect to the style of play that we have seen recently. I can say definitively that JT3 is doing what he can to ensuring that we move the ball effectively and move on offense. Also, what can the radio reports tell you about motion? Most radio announcers focus on what is being done with the ball rather than what is being done without the ball.
And, Hoya8, believe me, I was right there with you during the Esherick years in terms of despising the coach and the product that he put forth on the floor. Let's just be fair to JT3 and let him have some time to do what he can. John Chaney, no slouch himself, made some rather positive comments in the WaPo after Monday's game, and I think it would serve us well to remember these comments as we let JT3 build a program, which, in fairness, will probably take 2-3 years given where we left off after the Esherick E*rror.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by YB on Nov 28, 2004 20:29:18 GMT -5
DFW, I hate to disagree with you here, but I strongly disagree with the new old guy and disagree with your characterizations as well.
#1, you can't judge this team on how it plays in the beginning of this year. This year will largely be a growing year for the guys, it is obvious they are being patient and waiting for the good shot every posession. They do cut a weave, but that tends to come later in the game. The shots others teams' zones are giving them are wide-open outside shots. The reason for this is that this is exactly what they did last year against us and our guys couldn't make an outside bucket. Hence the mountain of losses.
This year, basically we don't have a hefty post player that passes well enough to make the Princeton O work yet. I think Green and Hibbert will develop into that role but it will take time. Meanwhile, they are clearly learning the fundamentals but cannot enact them fully as yet. I see what they are trying to do, and it has mixed success as yet. But we'll see a better-running machine by the end.
I think the pessimism by the new Old guy is unfounded. 5 freshmen, 3 sophomores, 3 juniors. 1 senior. New offense. Tough schedule. Early on, we'll struggle but we will get better.
BTW, I can only assume that the grumpy old alumni you refer to are the ones not giving to GU and thus contributing to the ongoing downfall of the University. Sad. But they sure have lots of opinions they aren't willing to back up with money when their alma mater needs it most.
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Post by hoya8 on Nov 28, 2004 20:32:36 GMT -5
Thanks for your comments. You admire the 'take no prisoners' attitude of the early responders. This is what georgetown needs, but for those of us who have travelled with team and seen their best, this team has a long way to go. I mean no harm to those athletes that are there, but frankly this is a business and these athletes are paid through scholarships to perform. My analysis was based on what I saw. This team as one responder said, could well give St. John's a game, but this is not St. Johns of Mullen and Weddington.
The GU demise started when in the late 1980's when we accepted sub par recruiting and performance. And allowed a coach to 'appoint ' his successor rather than getting the very best replacement. When we failed to demand and support an on-campus facility. When we first went to the Capital Centre the belief was that demand for GU season tickets would rival that of our opponent in 1981, North Carolina. Could this be the beginning of the creation of the Dean Dome, instead we have fallen pretty far. Let's hope the new enthusiasm can be coupled with a committment from the University to fund a top flite program.
I believe the new coach can make it, much like I expressed my support for his father as he trekked across the campus to the press conference announcing his appointment. But as then we need to be realistic of where we are. Then the GU President, Fr. Henle, went on record to say he would rebuild the program. We need the same now.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by YB on Nov 28, 2004 20:38:42 GMT -5
Keep in mind, hoya8, JT2 needed a couple years to rebuild the program as well.
I share your concerns about the on-campus arena, about admin shortsightedness, etc. There's lots of room for improvement, and not just in athletics- student activities, facilities, dorms, bureaucracy, are among the areas that need reform and investment. No joke.
But to lash out at these young guys when they are clearly giving their all, learning a brand new (and complex) system, and representing GU well is beyond me. And I don't kn ow about the whole "this is a business" thing. GU has staked its rep- and rightly so- on clinging to that which is good about amateur sports and collegiate sports, especially. Ask the kids who go to GU now- they see the team in classes. They eat with them. They are a part of the community.
You wouldn't say to some poor kid from a rural area attending GU on a biology schollie that "it's a business, and they better produce". And you certainly wouldn't say it 1 week into their college career.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GUHoya07 on Nov 28, 2004 20:40:14 GMT -5
That was a much more reasonable post. I agree with you on many issues when stated the way you did in this last post. I just think you were much too harsh and pessimistic at first. There is no need to insult our current players and claim that this is the worst team in history though.
Obviously, when comparing this team to the Georgetown teams of the 80's there is no comparison, but its not even fair to make such a comparison at this point. We definitely need a commitment from the administration to re-build a top flite program, and I hope that we can get that.
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Nov 28, 2004 20:41:22 GMT -5
The need for reform extends far beyond the on-campus and team-specific issues. There are certain elements in the confines of McDonough that need to be reformed lest they continue their Jurassic Park mentality of centuries gone by. I think many on this board won't need a long time to figure that out.
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Post by hoya8 on Nov 28, 2004 20:45:00 GMT -5
That was a much more reasonable post. I agree with you on many issues when stated the way you did in this last post. I just think you were much too harsh and pessimistic at first. There is no need to insult our current players and claim that this is the worst team in history though. Obviously, when comparing this team to the Georgetown teams of the 80's there is no comparison, but its not even fair to make such a comparison at this point. We definitely need a commitment from the administration to re-build a top flite program, and I hope that we can get that.
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Post by hoya8 on Nov 28, 2004 20:59:32 GMT -5
There is nothing personal about my comments. Like it or not THIS IS A BUSINESS. Players are paid to perform and if they perform well they leave school for the pros with no reimbursement to the school for the investment it has made in them. Has Allen Iverson or Mike Sweetney repaid their scholarships as terms of leaving school?
These players know exactly what they are getting, four years room and board with tuition in return for an eductation from one of the finest institutions in the country. Make no mistake, when players leave leave as they have in the past years, they are not doing so to find a better educational environment. They are 'shopping' their talents for the hope of NBA play. Remember the deflated basketball? I wonder if these players like Thomas and Long do?
Let's be realistic, if you want to be play at the highest level then you need to be able to play at this level. So let's drop the 'you are insulting these students' . This is not a benevolent society this is a big time college program. Ask Duke what it does with many of the 5 macdonalds all americans they recruit each year. My math says there should be 20 players on the Duke Team, somehow they have far less. The Georgetown players are in doubt trying to do the best they can, but they are not at the level today to play at the level expected. Coaching can do a lot, but you need to have ability. Unless of course you want to play at a lower level and that is always an alternative. Perhaps Georgetown given its financial losses on the basketball program should consider moving into another conference. The Big East is not going to get any easier next year.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 28, 2004 22:01:59 GMT -5
Saying the current team's players lack the talent level of the Hoya teams of the 80s and early 90s is not insulting student athletes, it's merely stating what many people, John Chaney included, have said about this team. It really does not have top level BE talent past the first 2 or 3 guys. Calling the players bums or other names like that would be over the line. Discussing their relative talent in relation to prior Hoya players and the BE now is fair game IMO.
On the other hand, expecting the team to run a perfect screen and pass 'Princeton' offense this early in the season is a bit much. It's going to take a while to get there.
I expect them to improve this year, but to get back to where we all want the program to be there needs to be a major talent upgrade as well.
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GUHoya07
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by GUHoya07 on Nov 28, 2004 22:14:04 GMT -5
Oh, ok Dan. Questioning what Roy Hibbert is doing in a Georgetown uniform and saying this is the worst team ever at Georgetown is exactly the same as saying that the current team's players lack the talent level of the Hoya teams of the 80's and early 90's.
Can't someone simply say that rather than insulting Roy like that and making blatantly ridiculous statements?
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