Explanation from Pat Forde on Mock Draft

[dajuan]

Below is an email I wrote to Pat Forde in response to yesterday's mock bracket, followed by Forde's response. I'm pretty impressed that he responded. I know this probably doesn't require its own thread, but I didn't want to bury it on the second page. Forde's explanation was a bit depressing because it made me re-think purchasing those non-refundable flights to Atlanta. But I think he overlooks some of my criticism.
FYI, Pat's email address is [e-mail] and can be found easily on ESPN.com
(My name has been changed to conceal my identity.)

Hi Pat,

Your mock draft is just that - a mock, a joke, preposterous.

My main beef is that you list Georgetown as a number 10 seed.

I assume you made the bracket a month ago after the Hoyas had lost to Villanova at home. Silly ESPN taking a month to publish a bracket.

The Hoyas are the #2 team in the Big East and have set themselves apart from the herd. Somehow you list them behind Notre Dame (a 6 seed) and Villanova (who has a losing record in conference). Out of conference, you list the Hoyas behind 8 seed Vanderbilt, who Georgetown beat by 16 points at Vanderbilt. Marquette - the #3 team in the Big East is a #2 seed. Think about that.

Please give me one reason for Georgetown's low rank. Please. I'm begging for it.

DaJuan


DaJuan
Georgetown Class of 2006
Currently living in Washington, DC and a season ticket holder

##########

DaJuan:

Thanks for writing. This is an easy one.

For starters: Georgetown is the #3 team from the Big East no matter how you slice it. Pitt and Marquette are 1-2.

Second: Georgetown has a single win over a team in the Top 50 in the RPI -- that's Vanderbilt, which is a whopping 49th. Its seven Big East victories have come over teams with RPIs of, in order, 53, 182, 120, 67, 149 and 133 (Louisville game was not taken into consideration at the time we made our selections). The 7-2 league record is built upon very meager competition. It lost at home to Villanova, at home to Oregon, at home to ODU. Lacking a standout victory, Georgetown's resume did not stand out. (That said, I probably would have seeded them higher myself if I were a one-man committee. Not a ton higher, but probably 8-9.)

Pat Forde

[jghoya01]

on top of your error as to where we are in the conference standings, you also mistakenly call this a draft. it was a mock selection. I too am surprised Forde took the time to respond. Seemed like he thought it out well though. We do need some big wins. Hopefully starting tomorrow.

[Locker]

Ugh. RPI psuedo-science is ruining college basketball. It's a garbage-in, garbage-out stat.

[williambraskyiii]

yeah dajuan...D+ on your argument buddy.

but that still doesn't get Forde and the rest of those creeps off the hook...I have neither the time nor the inclination to look back at the teams above us, but there are PLENTY of teams w/o marquee wins in the Top 35...so that is a bogus excuse.

whatever, though - i couldn't care less about an espn mock whatever.

[hoya39]

why don't you ask Pat Forde how come Notre Dame, Villanova and the biggies from other conferences have such a hard time beating the little guys in their confeence. We've pummeled evryone we've beat. Who has Notre Dame beat? Didn't Marq lose to North Dakota st? It seems like a big joke. I hope we pummel Marq tomorrow. How does air force lose to Sandiego st by 20 and still get respect? Blah Blab Blah

[sleepyjackson21]

He's right. At this point i wouldn't put us any better than a #8 seed. We just don't have the quality wins that merit a higher seed. The good thing is that we'll have plenty of opportunities to improve our resume. Marquette, WV, @nova and Pitt. Win 2 of 4 and the problem takes care of itself. (Nova game ,the won we lost, still bothers me because i really feel we are the better team)

[GIGAFAN99]

By "right" you mean based on the terribly flawed system we have where UNLV is the #10 team in the nation with 3 "top 50 wins" over BYU, Nevada, and Texas Tech (BYU and TT might not even make the tournament and Nevada's best win is probably Hawaii).

It will be interesting to see how it goes this year with the RPI. Right now, it's an absolute mess if you just seed teams strictly by RPI.

[Deleted]

sleepyjackson21 said:

He's right. At this point i wouldn't put us any better than a #8 seed. We just don't have the quality wins that merit a higher seed. The good thing is that we'll have plenty of opportunities to improve our resume. Marquette, WV, @nova and Pitt. Win 2 of 4 and the problem takes care of itself. (Nova game ,the won we lost, still bothers me because i really feel we are the better team)

This "Quality Win" stuff is a bunch of garbage that's easy to bring out as a negative when they want.

Here are Pittsburgh's "best" wins:
BE: Georgetown, @ Cuse, @ Nova, @ West VA
OOC: Florida State, @ Auburn

I am officially underwhelmed. Yet somehow they're locked into a 2 or 3 seed in everyone's mind.

This stuff won't matter soon. Let's crush Marquette tomorrow and move on.

[ExcitableBoy]

DaJuan, you got Jacked Up.

[sleepyjackson21]

It's a flawed system for sure. Do i think we're a better team than a #8 seed? Absolutely. No worries though. If we take care of business these next two weeks we'll move up.

BTW, is anyone else sickened by Cam's picture? Is there a way to ignore the picture and still see Cam's posts? Seriously, it's been bothering me for a couple months now.

[Deleted]

sleepyjackson21 said:

It's a flawed system for sure. Do i think we're a better team than a #8 seed? Absolutely. No worries though. If we take care of business these next two weeks we'll move up.

BTW, is anyone else sickened by Cam's picture? Is there a way to ignore the picture and still see Cam's posts? Seriously, it's been bothering me for a couple months now.

I'll be rocking a new avatar soon - I came to realize that a lot of people here probably think that I look like Feinstein. And I most certainly do not.

Feinstein is - and will forever remain - a bum, regardless of my avatar. I'm comfortable with moving on.

[Deleted]

Cam, your new avatar should be a picture of Ivan Drago. That's what I picture you look like, for some reason. The way you terrorize HoyaTalk lightweights and all...

[theexorcist]

I have issues with copying an email from someone and reposting it. Be aware that, if you do this, you are making the tacit argument that everyone else can do so, too. Oh, and it doesn't really matter if you're a season ticket holder.

We also have to remember that our Colonial friends had a gaudy record and few wins last year, and got hammered by the selection committee (much to my own personal joy). GU will be fine by the end of the season - we still play Pitt and Marquette - but beating St. John's comfortably doesn't matter that much to the selection committee. I don't think anybody above us has a much better resume, but the logic is defensible.

[sleepyjackson21]

Thanks Cam, much appreciated!

[The Stig]

It's a mock bracket, and we've still got a lot of the season to go. We've got Pitt and Marquette at the Phone Booth, plus the BET.

The fact is that we had a lousy start to the season and we haven't had a really big win yet. That doesn't mean that we're a lousy team that can't get a big win (hopefully tomorrow will prove that both of those are false), but the committee, real or mock, has to consider what a team's done, not what a team can do.

Besides, a low seed isn't the end of the world, even if it comes in the real bracket. It just means that we have to play good teams sooner rather than later. If we're as good as we think we are, we'll beat those teams regardless of what seed we have.

[Fan Of The Game]

I LOVE the implication that we're so far behind Marquette...so far out of the top two in the conference. You're fueling the fire Mr. Forde, and you're on my list.

[Fan Of The Game]

10 seed, my @ss.

Take that Pat Forde! Thanks for jinxing Marquette. This team is biased 3 seed; an unbiased 6 seed.

[bubbrubbhoya]

Dajuan,

Remail Pat Forde right now. Shove it in his face. Do it.

[sleepyjackson21]

Wait a couple of days until after the WV game.

[ExcitableBoy]

sleepyjackson21 said:

Wait a couple of days until after the WV game.

The point is that Forde explicity stated that we weren't even close to Marquette or Pitt - no matter how one looked at it. I'm pretty sure that we dispelled at least half of that myth this afternoon.