Trust the staff ...

[StPetersburgHoya (Inactive)]

I'm being serious.

I think this team was over-rated to being with. We are more analogous to 2004-2005 than 2005-2006 right now. That won't be the case all season, its just the case now. We have 3 players who have started, run the offense in game situations with real pressure on them, and 10 players who have not - it takes a while for a team to get the concepts that III is teaching on offense and defense. We certainly didn't give ourselves much of a learning curve with this schedule.

[GIGAFAN99]

I don't think that's true. I think we're almost exactly analogous to 2005-06. Tonight was the torture chamber that was last year's Illinois game (It's almost the same score). ODU was a lot like Vandy. We even won against a middling major conference team on the road in the midst of all this like we did at Oregon last year. For all the complaints, we've already seen that through six games we have the same record, much the same stats...really almost the same everything as last season and we did fine last year.

But the problem is that we expected this team to be better. Actually that's not my problem. I could stand it if I didn't think Sapp or Egerson had come along far enough.

I just can't believe they look this timid. That shouldn't be happening. Bad I can handle, timid I can't. Second year in a new offense with a new coach and some mis-matched talent and experience, alright be timid. But someone on this team has to get some attitude. We still have plenty of time here and contrary to some, we don't look like an NIT team, we look like a team that should develop into a good team like last year.

But instead of reinventing the wheel, I thought we'd use some of the power and athleticism we'd acquired to add a dimension to this team. So far it looks like we're playing out Groundhog Day for last season and that is frustrating.

[williambraskyiii]

giga that is a terrible analogy. tonight was nothing like ill...we ewre blown out of the gym in the first half last year only to have jeff have a mammoth second half - it was a promising loss, if there ever was such a thing, just b/c jeff grew up in front of our eyes and became assertive.

i don't see an even comparison tonight - sure egerson had 13 pts, but come on, NO. roy and jeff played like dog doo-doo. while i will give you vandy-odu a bit closer, we are going in the WRONG direction here. I am not seeing constructive things in our growing pains.

[FHillsNYHoya]

Didn't see the Ball State game - so forgive me for not drinking the Jeff is back Kool-Aid. He looks like poop. Let's just say it. Hopefully he'll snap out of it.

[VelvetElvis]

Severe weather alert! Severe weather alert! Severe weather alert!
-Watch for falling sky
-Watch for falling sky
-Watch for falling sky

[HoyaFanNY]

this 'trust the staff' stuff is geting old. what can the staff do to make green and hibbert grow a set and play tough?

[YB]

It's not up to the staff to get Roy and Jeff to play tough. That comes from inside their skin. The staff are putting them in positions to succeed. They are not doing that right now- especially Jeff. Roy has at least looked good all season before this, he just wore his cement shoes last night.

[Gold Hoya]

JTIII could start by making liberal use of quote in my profile (from last year) at practice today.

[KHoyaNYC]

gigafan99 said:

I don't think that's true. I think we're almost exactly analogous to 2005-06. Tonight was the torture chamber that was last year's Illinois game (It's almost the same score). ODU was a lot like Vandy. We even won against a middling major conference team on the road in the midst of all this like we did at Oregon last year. For all the complaints, we've already seen that through six games we have the same record, much the same stats...really almost the same everything as last season and we did fine last year.

But the problem is that we expected this team to be better. Actually that's not my problem. I could stand it if I didn't think Sapp or Egerson had come along far enough.

I just can't believe they look this timid. That shouldn't be happening. Bad I can handle, timid I can't. Second year in a new offense with a new coach and some mis-matched talent and experience, alright be timid. But someone on this team has to get some attitude. We still have plenty of time here and contrary to some, we don't look like an NIT team, we look like a team that should develop into a good team like last year.

But instead of reinventing the wheel, I thought we'd use some of the power and athleticism we'd acquired to add a dimension to this team. So far it looks like we're playing out Groundhog Day for last season and that is frustrating.

That Illinois game last year was my "favorite loss" because I thought in the second half we showed so much promise against a then #11 ranked team on their home floor. After that game, I thought we had the chance to be a pretty good team, and I think we ran off 7 or 8 wins in a row before losing a rather close one at WVU.

I don't have that same warm fuzzy feeling after last night's loss. First, Oregon is no 2005-06 Illinois. Second, it was on our home floor. Third, as you rightly point out, we look timid and I would thrown in a bit disinterested as well. I don't see the analogy between last year and this year, at least not when comparing the Illinois and Oregon games. We've taken a few steps back, not as many as some on this board might think in my opinion, but still there has been a regression. I really hope this plays out like 2005-06. Right now, I don't see the similarities except in the team's record.

[TrueHoyaBlue]

I agree with St. Pete on his original point in this post. There were a number of occasions last night where Wallace was actively directing traffic (pointing, yelling) because the newer guys weren't making the cuts or moves they needed to.

I'm gonna say it right now, a JTIII coached team will never be great in November, unless it's starting all Seniors and Juniors. It takes time for all the players to learn the offensive system enough to stop thinking about it and start acting on instinct.

At least five turnovers last night (and maybe as many as ten) came on busted backdoor cuts or entry passes. Those are the kind of thing that only work when the guys on the floor know exactly how everyone else is going to react to a given situation. And that takes time. Last year was an anomaly, because the entire "starting six" was maintained from the previous year, and much of that chemistry was already built in.

[hoyaboy1]

Well, if we are never going to be great early in the season, we better hope that JTIII teams are the best coached in the country, or close to it, come March.

I'm still personally not sold that the strict Princeton offense we run is any better than a lot of other styles, which it has to be to make up for the learning curve. On the other hand, I'm not totally convinced that the learning curve is as steep as everyone thinks, but is instead often used as an excuse. I'm also not yet convinced that JTIII is going to adjust the system for personnel as much as he said he would. But I guess we have to wait and see.

[YB]

THB, I agree 100%. Although you like to say, that Jeff and Roy should be further along.

[TrueHoyaBlue]

hoyaboy1 said:

Well, if we are never going to be great early in the season, we better hope that JTIII teams are the best coached in the country, or close to it, come March.

Sounds good to me. On the other hand, bringing in two guards next year who are both top creators and shooters should be helpful for when the offense bogs down early in the year.

[GIGAFAN99]

khoyanyc said:

gigafan99 said:

I don't think that's true. I think we're almost exactly analogous to 2005-06. Tonight was the torture chamber that was last year's Illinois game (It's almost the same score). ODU was a lot like Vandy. We even won against a middling major conference team on the road in the midst of all this like we did at Oregon last year. For all the complaints, we've already seen that through six games we have the same record, much the same stats...really almost the same everything as last season and we did fine last year.

But the problem is that we expected this team to be better. Actually that's not my problem. I could stand it if I didn't think Sapp or Egerson had come along far enough.

I just can't believe they look this timid. That shouldn't be happening. Bad I can handle, timid I can't. Second year in a new offense with a new coach and some mis-matched talent and experience, alright be timid. But someone on this team has to get some attitude. We still have plenty of time here and contrary to some, we don't look like an NIT team, we look like a team that should develop into a good team like last year.

But instead of reinventing the wheel, I thought we'd use some of the power and athleticism we'd acquired to add a dimension to this team. So far it looks like we're playing out Groundhog Day for last season and that is frustrating.

That Illinois game last year was my "favorite loss" because I thought in the second half we showed so much promise against a then #11 ranked team on their home floor. After that game, I thought we had the chance to be a pretty good team, and I think we ran off 7 or 8 wins in a row before losing a rather close one at WVU.

I don't have that same warm fuzzy feeling after last night's loss. First, Oregon is no 2005-06 Illinois. Second, it was on our home floor. Third, as you rightly point out, we look timid and I would thrown in a bit disinterested as well. I don't see the analogy between last year and this year, at least not when comparing the Illinois and Oregon games. We've taken a few steps back, not as many as some on this board might think in my opinion, but still there has been a regression. I really hope this plays out like 2005-06. Right now, I don't see the similarities except in the team's record.

I see a few, namely only two guys scored, Roy was shut down, the other team shot terribly but got more shots, and we played timidly on both ends.

I know this was on our home floor, but I think we had warm fuzzies because last year we thought the team was a work-in-progress building to a good year.

This year we started with high expectations and last night squashed them so it seems like a big step back. I'm not convinced that this team is looking worse than last year's team at this point. Worse than expected? Sure.

I think we have to face it that we're not going to change the Princeton strategy despite the staff's protestations that they're not married to it. That means we'll watch this awfulness every November for the rest of our lives which isn't great.

But if the team develops, we can still be really good come January. So we have to trust the staff. As much as I hate squandering our talent early in favor of developing players within the system, we have to let it happen. Once we don't allow a coach to lose out-of-conference games, we're really doomed.

That said please, tell Jeff to shoot.