Macklin instead of Ewing or Summers?

[Dhall]

I think he has demonstrated a lot of quickness, intelligence and positive attitude when on the court in the few minutes he's played. Unlike Ewing and Summers, who have each made a number of really silly mistakes on both offense and defense, Macklin seems to be out there setting good screens, making good defensive switches, valuing the basketball on offense, playing fundamentally sound, etc. Basically, he seems to understand that he is a new player and the way to earn minutes is to play under control on both ends of the court and not make mistakes. This seems like a valuable set of traits given where we are right now.

So here's a vote for Macklin to be the first guy off the bench and I mean that in almost any circumstance. Put aside preconceived notions of traditional positions and I think we can even play a lineup with Macklin, Green and Hibbert.

[sweetness]

I think either way he needs to get more than 4 minutes and Summers needs more than 8 -- we have to invest in these guys early to have a special season.

[KHoyaNYC]

I second that. Can't hurt to use these guys more now and see what they got and get them comfortable.

[YB]

I disagree. Summers looked totally lost out there. Macklin did look a lot better, but the newcomers as a whole- Ewing, Summers, Macklin, Rivers- generally look like they have no idea what to do on offense or defense yet. It does take 1.5 years to really handle III's system, and these guys are nowhere near yet. Anything we get from this group of four this year is total gravy, at this point. The experienced players, Juniors and Seniors, will need to carry this team.

[sweetness]

YB, how are they not going to look lost if they don't play? Ewing Jr has been in the system for over a year of practice. The only way these guys will get it is through playing time. We can't make a big run this year without significant contributions from the newcomers.

[hoyaboy1]

yb said:

It does take 1.5 years to really handle III's system, and these guys are nowhere near yet. Anything we get from this group of four this year is total gravy, at this point. The experienced players, Juniors and Seniors, will need to carry this team.

I'm not sure I believe this - and if it is true, it will hurt the team. Badly. We are now recruiting at a level where many players will leave after 2 or perhaps 3 years, and the idea that they will spend much of their time a step behind because of the offense is certainly not a positive.

Also, considering how little movement is going on in our offense right now, I don't really see how it could be that complicated for the freshman to fit in.

[bmartin]

It doesn't take a year and a half to learn man to man defense and rebounding. That is what those guys need to bring now. Only Jeff and Jon really run the offense anyway. When Jeff is passive, Jon is the only player trying to create shots for his teammates.

[Dhall]

I don't think repeatedly falling for headfakes, taking multiple threepoint shots when you are not a proven shooter and otherwise losing your man on defense has anything to do with learning our "system". I think Macklin has done less of this stupid stuff and should be rewarded for it to not only give him an opportunity but to send a message to Ewing in particular that bad plays cost the team and concentration needs to improve.

[RDF]

Macklin is a guy who can rebound and according to what those at the game said killed the team last night--how could more minutes for him hurt? Throw in the fact that rebounding is this team's achilles heel since III took over and you need people like Ticket out on court.

I'm tired of hearing about the "system". It's great that you want to have one--and I'm not saying III should change it--but you adjust to the talent/roster you have and it's on the coach to do this--or you recruit to the system you want to use-you don't ask guys who are athletic and can get up and down the court to play as we've seen the past few years.

There are different ways to play within the "Princeton Principles Offense" and would like to see a more uptempo game when the younger players are in due to fact they have an advantage with Macklin--who can run with or outrun any big in country down the court. Problem comes back to backcourt players--are they capable of getting out and running a break/being trusted? Again--I caught holy hell for mentioning the importance of guards last week and this is why the future has me seeing the level of success that many expect this year--I see this year as a learning experience, with team playing it's best in FebruaryMarch and being a threat, but you need guards to be an outstanding team/threat to win conference/national championships.

Look at Maryland's improvement in early season--it's due to improved backcourt play--and those kids are FR. It doesn't matter how old you are in sports--it matters how good you are and if you know how to play. Talent is more important then experience, although talent has to be used in best way to help team--you don't ask players to change to your way of playing--you adjust to what they can/can't do and that is what III and Staff are trying to find out at this time and why I see some struggles early on and improvement coming out of this as we go on--hopefully.

Only negative I took/have taken from time to time during III's tenure is the "we just didn't come out to play" CRAP. That is manure. If you can't get people ready to play and if your players aren't "fired up or "don't match their intensity" then find some who will. Effort/intensity don't require talent, and many times this team sleepwalks through periods on the court--usually in opening half and then adjusts and plays better ball in 2nd Half. Last night it was just the opposite from sounds of things.

[YB]

Yeah, Ewing was bad- but so was Summers, who apparently has never heard of the concept of "getting out on the shooter". But generally, the newcomers look very much like the juniors and sophs did against Temple that first game- remember that? Like a scurry of ants. No order.

I don't know why people find it hard to understand that it takes a while- longer for some, shorter for others- but generally 1.5 years to really learn the discipline required for III's system, both offensively and defensively. I think we could all agree that the problems yesterday- and there were many- were generated by mass confusion and lack of purpose, and lack of effort to some degree.

The young guys have to be broken down of their bad habits first. For Ewing and Summers, that means working for the best shot possible, not just jacking up wild 3s and such. Macklin has value because they told him not to shoot- rebound and defend, and he seems better at that. But for a while, the experienced players will have to carry us while the new guys get accustomed. Which is why Green's disappearing act is so frustrating too.

Ultimately, if we rely on the new guys too soon, we'll see a bunch of hesitant, mistake-ridden basketball and a undamentally bad team. If you are willing to live with further losses like this one against bad teams, be my guest. Me, I'd prefer to be patient and rely on the old guys and rack up some wins while guys learn the ropes.

[lichoya68]

WAS SITTING NEXT TO A GUY FROM SOUTHERN VA. ASKED IF HE WAS FOR ODU HE SAID NO AND THAT HE WAS WITH VERNON NOT SURE WHAT THAT MEANT BUT HE SAID HE WAS A TREMENDOUS REBOUNDER IF HE GOT IN MORE AND ALONG WITH THIS I KINDA AGREE. GO HOYAS GO VERNON BEAT FAIRFIELD

[lichoya68]

PS H E DID SAY THAT VERNON WAS SLOWED DOWN BY A BRUISED TAILBONE WHICH HAS BEEN REPORTED.. GO HOYAS

[YB]

Hey, don't get me wrong- I'm all for talent and excited about recruiting, etc. But look at guys like Bobo and Cook and DJ. They were very inconsistent until about midpoint last year- the Duke game. Guys, if you like it or not, the most talented player in the world will not amount to much if he does not discipline his game. These newcomers are treating games like a McDonald's AA game. Hoisting up shots and no defense. If we play them now with those bad habits, they will not develop and we will not win, any game.

III has earned the right to coach as he knows, with what works. And he knows discipline wins titles, on defense and offense. Athleticism alone won't do it.

You saw the newcomers this year, they did not look like they have EARNED those minutes. They will, over time and with learning. But you can't rush that, it's not fair to them or to the program. It does them no good either to take an undisciplined game to the NBA and sit on the bench because the NBA won't tolerate that throw up the ball crap either. They need to be taught the right way eventually; might as well be now.

Think of it this way: You are basically saying, recruit like III but coach like Esherick. Sounds like a recipe for an ulcer to me. I'll take working them in slowly to win later- and having the experienced hands show them how it's done, thanks.

[SFHoya99]

1. I love the questioning of the offense after every loss. This loss had nothing to do with the offense, and people still question. Funny, I missed these posts after all the wins.

2. YB, you're well intentioned but totally misrepresenting the offense. The 1.5 years that was always widely quoted was with a new team. Not integrating new players into a team that mostly knows the offense. Coach has at least intimated that that is much quicker when he doesn't have "13 freshmen." I fully expect these players to acclimate much quicker.

That said, is it any shocker other teams are ahead of our freshmen in Game 3?

3. GU, at leats before this game, had picked up the pace significantly in Games 1 and 2. But we go in this stupid merry-go-round. Running isn't the solution to last night's game. Rebounding, defense, not turning over the ball -- did you see how few turnovers they had? Fast breaking because you have a couple of athletic freshmen isn't changing that.

Give this team time. I feel exactly like after the Vandy loss. The sky is falling, scrap the system, wait til next year when the really talented players get here...

[HoyaFanNY]

more of a player problem than a 'princeton' offense problem, but they really are not that far apart. we're clueless against a zone. 2 inferior teams play zone against us and we struggle badly. one team plays man and we smoke them. it's not a coincidence.

[hoyaboy1]

Running may not be the solution, but playing the exact same style when we replace Cook, Owens and Bowman with guys who have totally different skill sets doesn't make sense either.

[Dhall]

It doesn't have to be an "either/or" with the new players in the OOC games. We have 4 tested veterans on this team in Wallace, Sapp, Green and Hibbert. Even if they each played 40 minutes, that's still 40 minutes of playing time for others. Realistically, those four could average something like 34 minutes per game and now you've got 64 minutes to go around. That's enough time to give everyone deserving a look some quality playing time in the pre-Big East schedule, but not enough to give them all a long look every game.

Now if people aren't comfortable with a core of Wallace, Sapp, Green and Hibbert then that is a different story. But I have full confidence in those four guys based on what they did last year and thus far this year.

[GIGAFAN99]

Early returns I have full confidence in our starting five. Jeff's not going to turn it yesterday's performance too often and the rest of the starting five has shown they can produce, scoring 63.7ppg.

Our bench...well...um...without Tyler it's pretty thin right now but hopefully the run the guys get now will help later this season.

Need to decide what we're going to do on D knowing teams are going to chuck it and crash the glass. But I still think even the six-man rotation when Tyler comes back is a solid group. Just need the newbies to improve as the year progresses.

[YB]

Yeah- we need TC back, first off. Second, our core is solid- we can depend on them and bring the other guys along slow, which it looks like we may have to do.

BTW SF, I was referring to individual players getting it, not the team. Notice how the sophs look that much better now (see Sapp). I expect next year the freshmen will be diesel, but they're still learning the ropes of a complicated and disciplined system.

[SFHoya99]

I still disagree, YB. A single player or a small group of players will pick it up quicker, I think, when they play with other players who have already picked it up. Maybe not to perfection but much faster than an individual would if no one was playing properly.

Just my opinion.