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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 9, 2005 22:16:51 GMT -5
the only positive stretch of play i have seen from BoBo was that sick 10 minute span when he just owned vandy's defense and sliced and diced them for like four sick buckets...he seems to have difficulty discerning when he can exploit those moves vs. when the penetration will result in a TO - also he NEEDS to get his stroke back from long-range. i mean that is essential to the success of this team. I would even take it a step further and say that Brandon is essential to the success of this team. Let's face it, he hasn't played anywhere near a level that would be deemed adequate so far this year, but we have to realize, we are only going to go as far as Brandon allows us. Benching him and cutting his minutes in half is not going to do us any good. I've been as tough on him as any, but we're going to go to war with him just as he's gone to war for us for the past four years, and we're going to live and die by his performance. I'm not confident, but I am hopeful that he can turn it around.
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PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Ultimate bailout is yet to come and unavoidable. Uncle Sam gonna pay your debt for you!
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Dec 9, 2005 23:05:28 GMT -5
if bowman doesnt come alive when the be season starts, i think jtiii has gotta try something different.
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Post by ][-][ 0 `/ /-\ 5 on Dec 10, 2005 0:24:46 GMT -5
the only positive stretch of play i have seen from BoBo was that sick 10 minute span when he just owned vandy's defense and sliced and diced them for like four sick buckets...he seems to have difficulty discerning when he can exploit those moves vs. when the penetration will result in a TO - also he NEEDS to get his stroke back from long-range. i mean that is essential to the success of this team. I would even take it a step further and say that Brandon is essential to the success of this team. Let's face it, he hasn't played anywhere near a level that would be deemed adequate so far this year, but we have to realize, we are only going to go as far as Brandon allows us. Benching him and cutting his minutes in half is not going to do us any good. I've been as tough on him as any, but we're going to go to war with him just as he's gone to war for us for the past four years, and we're going to live and die by his performance. I'm not confident, but I am hopeful that he can turn it around. I think we may want to bench him to send him a message. He's just been a cancer to this offense and he may need to take a hit from reality and realize he needs to step up if he is going to play a lot at this level. He needs to put in a lot of work to get the kinks out of his game but why would he feel the need for that if he is still starting and getting a lot of work. I hope that maybe having him on the bench, watching DJ perform well, would get him motivated to play like good Brandon all the time.
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71hoya
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Post by 71hoya on Dec 10, 2005 9:46:19 GMT -5
BB is not the problem. The "system" is the problem. It started at the end of last season when the coaches from the big east figured out how to defend it. In the Ivy it works because the talent level of the defense is not as good as the big east. It works occasionally against better teams when they are not used to seeing it or didn't prepare for it. But throw a team with a good, fast defense against the system and you see the end of last year and so far what we have seen this year. BB doesn't get a chance to show what he can do because the ball is always moving away form the basket. This team has a lot of talent. In my mind, we should be undeafeated this year. The system however was designed to even the playing field when you don't have as much talent as the other guys. But when you have talent, as we do, the system tends to lower the ability of a star to make things happen play. The individual sacrfices his talent for the good of the team and the "system" . That is why BB and Green aren't looking as good as we know they are.
Under the "system" every pass moves the ball away from the basket. No one is allowed to go one on one against someone. No one drives to the basket and then either finishes or dumps the ball back out for an open 3. Under the system, no one attacks the basket. The proof of this is the fact of our numerous shot clock violations and lat second throws we saw at the end of last year and this year.
A motion offense works as long as the players are allowed to attack the basket. We have great individual players who can take advantage of this. Green in the second half clearly broke out of the system and look what happened. JT3 wake up! Let the players play! What player would want to come here and have to play in a system that won't let them shine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2005 9:52:09 GMT -5
What player would want to come here and have to play in a system that won't let them shine. I'll take it easy 'cause apparently you're new around here, but... ... do the names Vernon Macklin or DaJuan Summers mean anything to you? And I seem to recall Green winning co-Big East Rookie of the Year with this system. And the fact you think they should be undefeated is simply comical. Sure, they had a chance to beat Vandy and maybe even should have... but come the end of the year, that's going to be a good loss. And as for winning at Illinios, refresh my memory - who was the last out-of-conference team to do that? The kind of players that want to come here are top 100 recruits, that's who wants to play in this "system" as you put it. Watch what happens to the "system" when III injects some top tier talent into it. Hell, let's see what happens THIS year, for chrissakes. I mean let's be reasonable here, people - if G'Town wasn't so cold shooting to start the game we wouldn't be having these discussions. Our only legit complaint would be freshmen getting on the floor and rebounding. Some perspective would be nice...
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71hoya
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Post by 71hoya on Dec 10, 2005 10:13:19 GMT -5
Yes JT3 can recruit but he has not yet proven that he can coach at this level. Yes going up to Illinois was going to be a hard place to win. But we would have been having this discussion even if we came back in the second half to win. We were not cold in the first half. Cold is when you have good shot and miss. We didn't take any good shoots in the first half. We neve attacked tha basket, We did play good defense. At half-time it appeared to me that Thompson let the players play.
I agree that this will be a good loss. Hopefully we learned that the system as played in the first half doesn't work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2005 10:35:06 GMT -5
Yes JT3 can recruit but he has not yet proven that he can coach at this level. Yes going up to Illinois was going to be a hard place to win. But we would have been having this discussion even if we came back in the second half to win. We were not cold in the first half. Cold is when you have good shot and miss. We didn't take any good shoots in the first half. We neve attacked tha basket, We did play good defense. At half-time it appeared to me that Thompson let the players play. I agree that this will be a good loss. Hopefully we learned that the system as played in the first half doesn't work. You're question wasn't whether he can coach or not. You asked " [w]hat player would want to come here and have to play in a system that won't let them shine[/b]?" As for having good/bad shots and missing, I seem to recall a good half dozen or so open jumpers the guys missed in the first half... inside and outside the arc. Hit half those shots, a decent percentage of free throws and your point is moot. All I'm saying is, the system you so easily dismiss is currently being run with - when you take the ENTIRE roster into account - mid-level Big East talent. Considering the results they've had in III's 14 or so months coaching the team, I'd say he's done a pretty decent job. That's not to say they don't have holes on the roster, but as I see it the problem to date has been execution... not the gameplan.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Dec 10, 2005 14:50:45 GMT -5
The comments about the system being the problem and it only working when there's a talent disparity are just foolish and reveal a significant lack of familiarity with college basketball at any depth. Plenty of schools with tremendous talent run some form of this offense to great success. Plus, its a real over-simplification to simply call this "the Princeton offense." JTIII himself has gotten tired of that moniker and wants it to be known its a "Georgetown" offense now.
More generally on Bowman--and I don't mean this as any kind of personal attack--but I wonder if part of the problem isn't that maybe he's pouting. He's no longer the man anymore. It started to become clear last year when Green was obviously the best player on the team, but now that Hibbert is playing tough, we've got two options to look for before Brandon. This after BB was THE MAN in Esherick's final season--the only real weapon. I didn't have the audio up, but there was a disturbing shot of Bowman on the bench midway through the second half of the Oregon game where he looked awfully frustrated. He got back into that game and racked up garbage points at the free throw line later, but maybe after thinking he was on the verge of the NBA he's got it in his head that he needs to showcase his skills, and the current offense and personnel aren't going to let him do that.
Just wanted to throw that out there.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 10, 2005 14:53:58 GMT -5
Yes JT3 can recruit but he has not yet proven that he can coach at this level. Yes going up to Illinois was going to be a hard place to win. But we would have been having this discussion even if we came back in the second half to win. We were not cold in the first half. Cold is when you have good shot and miss. We didn't take any good shoots in the first half. We neve attacked tha basket, We did play good defense. At half-time it appeared to me that Thompson let the players play. I agree that this will be a good loss. Hopefully we learned that the system as played in the first half doesn't work. Actually, having just rewatched the first half, we missed four wide open threes, Roy missed 3 layups, Sapp missed a layup, Owens missed a layup and Green missed a layup. When I watched it the first time I thought we got nothing. But rewatching, we had plenty of opportunities. When we were down 12-7, we missed a wide open three, then two consecutive layups with only one FT to show. Roy went out, the defense collapsed and it was 22-9 a few minutes later. As for the system, have you ever watched Princeton run it? Even against a team with athletes? Many passes are toward the basket; they post up when they have a player; they drive quite a bit. It's the execution, not the system.
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