Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Dec 9, 2005 0:10:53 GMT -5
As I said earlier, this game was a GRAVY game. You can't possibly have expected us to be ready to win AT Illinois at this point, we didn't, and the final score ends up letting us look like we didn't get blown out of the building when the tournament resumes start getting assembled, so there you go.
Don't read too much more into it. Is Bowman struggling? Yes. I've never been much of a fan of his. Is it December? Yes.
When was the last time, by the way, that we had even played enough quality games by this point to feel comfortable making broad-based judgments about any given player's performance? How about never.
Let's not overreact. As my non-Georgetown fan friends kept telling me today while I struggled to contain my excitement for tonight's game: IT'S DECEMBER!!!!!!!!!!!!
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Dec 9, 2005 0:22:33 GMT -5
We played Duke in December 1990 (or was it 1989).
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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 9, 2005 0:27:22 GMT -5
I agree this was a gravy game, but there's no way this game helps us in terms of our tournament resume. A 10 point loss is better than a blowout, but it doesn't say we ever threatened Illinois. Which we didn't if they paid any attention to tonight's game. I don't think anyone is overreacting about Brandon. I know his leadership skills are questionable at best, but with his physical gifts, he should never be nearly held scoreless, regardless of who we are playing.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Dec 9, 2005 0:31:43 GMT -5
We played Duke in December 1990 (or was it 1989). Huh? You can imagine how our reactions would be different if this were the first and only good non-con foe we faced. We'd all be upset, but the doomsday messages I've read tonight would be nowhere to be found. RDF for one has been outrageously hysterical. I can't believe I've become the voice of positive thinking.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 9, 2005 1:15:34 GMT -5
I can't believe I've become the voice of positive thinking. Shocking, truly shocking! ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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HoyaNCCT
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Post by HoyaNCCT on Dec 9, 2005 1:44:31 GMT -5
God last year this time I was preaching about how BB hates contact, doesn't drive to the hoop and isn't aggressive... about time some people came around!
Watched the game with PEJr tonight - interesting insights into it. I definitely blurted out "Damn it Brandon, make some contact" at one point. He didn't react but it didn't make me feel good yelling about it. Too bad.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 9, 2005 1:51:27 GMT -5
You watched the game with PEJr, NCCT?
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Dec 9, 2005 8:47:56 GMT -5
No one can honestly say they expected a win last night, we are not good nor will we be at the end of the season to beat a #10 on their home court! The first half sucked, Brandon did not rise to the occasion at all. I am giving Wallace a pass because he was playing possibly the best player he will face all season in Dee Brown. BB has got to get his confidence back, he looks frustrated which is leading to disinterested play. These next 3 could be a catalyst for BB but also could tell us all we will need to know about his production this season.
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Post by theEDGEfactor on Dec 9, 2005 8:51:09 GMT -5
i was ready for a win-- i mean we did travel 3000 miles and win a game ina very hard place, and we matched up very well with the illini, i thot this was a win from the start but when it got going NOP. But, jw, why was cook on dee brown. Wallace is our fastest player, why not have him on dee.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2005 10:50:31 GMT -5
i was ready for a win-- i mean we did travel 3000 miles and win a game ina very hard place, and we matched up very well with the illini, i thot this was a win from the start but when it got going NOP. But, jw, why was cook on dee brown. Wallace is our fastest player, why not have him on dee. There's no way Wallace is the team's fastest player. There's 14 months of evidence to support that. I love the guy, but he could use some help masking his weaknesses (perimeter D, penetration on O).
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Dec 9, 2005 11:06:15 GMT -5
Uggh...for the season, Brandon now has 2 assists and 15 turnovers.
His backup DJ has 16 assists and 4 turnovers.
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Post by HoyaRejuveNation85 on Dec 9, 2005 11:24:52 GMT -5
I think Jersey and others have said it clearly. Our guards are overmatched in the quickness department. Edge has a lot of insightful points, but I was as shocked as Buff to read that JW is our fastest guy. I have to seriously doubt that. If true, we have more problems than I thought. One of our biggest weaknesses is that our guards are unable to contain quick strong guards. They get beat off the dribble too much causing our big guys to collapse, leaving their men to clean up the offensive glass. I was encouraged by Ashanti's defensive performance in the Oregon game, but he didn't look so good in this one. Still, he's not that bad. JW on the other hand is a defensive liability in my view. Unfortunately, he has the team's best handle and gets the minutes. I'm not convinced that in a game like this one that he's worth playing much. We didn't get any offensive flow in the first half -- certainly no penetration. JW had nothing. Even his 3 point shot looks off. I would rather get somebody else in there. I like the suggestions of putting Cook back at PG and getting DJ in the lineup.
Brandon is killing us. A walking turnover. His confidence looks off. I was glad to see Jeff assert himself as he did in the second half. I don't think people were doubting him, but he clearly ASSERTED himself more in the second half. We need that from the start. Roy has made great strides, but still can get pushed around on the box. He rushed shots and failed to finish quite a bit in this one, but he's a player. Anyone who says Augustine of the Illini isn't an athlete didn't watch the game I saw. That guy has a great second jump, quick hands and good vision for a big man.
We played much better in the second half in a hostile environment. We didn't fold the tent when it would have been easy to do so. We showed some heart and got the dominating Jeff back. There's plenty to build on here. No shame in losing to a very good team. Brown and Augustine led as seniors. We need Brandon to get his game together and for Coach to figure out a way to stop the dribble penetration. If we do, opponents will stop killing us on the offensive glass. This will be helpful in playing Villanova with their quick guards. Lowry was a couple of months of ACL surgery last year and ran rings around us. He's improved this year. We need a plan to stop the penetration of quick guards even if our guards don't have commensurate foot speed.
And as Big Dog said, it's December. Keep the faith.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 9, 2005 11:35:31 GMT -5
what i don't get is our guards must've played some good defense at points last year i mean we did beat Nova at nova with all their good guards why can't we do w/e it was we did there?
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YB
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Post by YB on Dec 9, 2005 11:40:59 GMT -5
JW got blown by all year last year too. You have to design a defense if you want to have him out there most nights- and this year is exposing this.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Dec 9, 2005 11:45:36 GMT -5
Ok ok ok...I was yelling at Brandon all game long. I am very disappointed in his play, and I think that he is probably feeling exponentially more disappointed still. But we know Brandon, good and bad, and we know that he is a great athlete and has some skills. No way we are a better team without him. I hope that he comes out and has a great Big East season. That being said, something needs to change. What about this: we move Brandon out to the 2 guard position, so that he has more space to manuever in. His skill set - a great first step and a streaky shot - means that he could fulfill the role of a Pippen, or more likely, a Lamar Odom. He tends to get caught with Roy between him and the basket in his current position. Starting line up of Ashanti at the 1, Brandon at the 2, Owens 3, Jeff 4, Roy 5. With the re-emergence of Crawford this game, we can afford to put both our swingmen out there at the same time. Wallace would be able to spell either Ashanti or Brandon. Just a thought... Now that is an idea that has some merit, I hope JT3 considers moving Bowman to the 2 spot at sometimes during the game if he is struggling like last night. The alternative to starting Bowman is to start Owens, but unlike the last 5 games of last year when he was aggressive and looked to score from the outside as well as driving to the basket, he has reverted back to his introvert basketball personality. ( I think last night is the norm and last years 5 game performances were an abberation)I really don't think it is in his nature to have that killer instinct. He seems more content being that complimentary player. He does not seem to do well as the guy you call on in the pressure situations. I know one shot in one game is not a fair measure, but that wide open 3 with about 2 minutes to go last night that would have pulled the Hoyas within 5, is the perfect example of that. Although Bowman missed a wide open 3 also, he wants that shot, he wants to be the player to take that shot. Given the pressure of the moment and the importance of the game I say he makes that shot 6 out of 10 times. I say Owens makes it 3 out of 10. Neither is in the mold of a Williams or Martin type Georgetown forward, but Bowman's lack of fear of failure puts him closer to that mold than Owens.
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Post by theEDGEfactor on Dec 9, 2005 13:12:20 GMT -5
i think wallace is alot faster than cook but like i sed we must go with a shanti owens bb jeff and roy lineup-- especially with us playing fairfield it would be an easy experiment on one of our easiest games of the year
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Post by williambraskyiii on Dec 9, 2005 13:21:06 GMT -5
how has jessie's foot speed on defense looked so far this year? can anyone attest to that? also, i concur with bigdog everyone needs to relax. we are not final 4 material this year, but that doesn't mean we aren't a tourney team - just because we lost at illinois - however, it does suck that we had ANOTHER atrocious first half showing on national TV exactly like the BC game last year - i HATE when that happens.
i also hope BB doesn't read these boards because he is going to want to cry. everyone needs to lay off and wait and see what happens before we enter BEast play.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Dec 9, 2005 13:24:44 GMT -5
Uggh...for the season, Brandon now has 2 assists and 15 turnovers. That line pretty much says it all. I mean, OUCH. It just seems that Brandon over the summer somehow forgot how to play the game. We all know he's talented, he's just not slashing or creating anything. I honestly hope he can get his confidence back against the cupcakes. If we can't look to him as a legit scoring threat, this could be a long season. I still don't think we're better without him though.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Dec 9, 2005 13:31:53 GMT -5
Uggh...for the season, Brandon now has 2 assists and 15 turnovers. That line pretty much says it all. I mean, OUCH. It just seems that Brandon over the summer somehow forgot how to play the game. We all know he's talented, he's just not slashing or creating anything. I honestly hope he can get his confidence back against the cupcakes. If we can't look to him as a legit scoring threat, this could be a long season. I still don't think we're better without him though. You said the magic word summer - this summer every report from KL was that Brandon was frustrated or that he was sleep-walking on the court. We all said then that BB would get better and show up for the season. I don't want to question his work ethic, but he knew exactly what he had to work on when he talked to NBA scouts - we didn't see him working on that in the summer, we haven't seen it this season, and I'm beginning to think that just as Roy put in a lot of work to get better over the summer BB might have coasted and is paying for it now.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Dec 9, 2005 13:44:55 GMT -5
the only positive stretch of play i have seen from BoBo was that sick 10 minute span when he just owned vandy's defense and sliced and diced them for like four sick buckets...he seems to have difficulty discerning when he can exploit those moves vs. when the penetration will result in a TO - also he NEEDS to get his stroke back from long-range. i mean that is essential to the success of this team.
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