Lunardi chat on ESPN.com

[RockawayHoya]

I definitely respect Lunardi much more than most of the analysts at ESPN.com, so I thought I'd post some stuff pertinent to us that he says in response to the questions he's gotten.

On Vandy:
Jack (Nashville, TN): With wins at Georgetown and against Oregon, can the Dores have a shot at top 7 seed if they go 8-8 in SEC play and win at GT?
SportsNation Joe Lunardi: Vandy would probably make the NCAA field in your scenario, Jack, but the seed wouldn't be as high as you say. For one, 8-8 in this year's SEC ain't all that great. For another, we don't know (yet) that any of the three victims/potential victims you mention will be NCAA teams.

On GW:
Michael (DC): what kind of statement did GW make last night by beating Maryland?
SportsNation Joe Lunardi: That the Colonials are the best team in the D.C. area. Then again, weren't they already supposed to be?

[Jack]

Lunardi has never had anything good to say about the Big East or GU. He loves the mid majors, particularly the A-10 and St. Joe's.

[Joe Hoya]

He does radio commentary for St. Joe's games I believe (I know for a fact I've heard him on there when I've been home; dunno if it's a regular gig). He was also doing the Temple-Miami game Thanksgiving weekend, so maybe he does A-10 TV as well.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the comments that Dick VItale made about the Hoyas tonight at the end of the MSU-BC game (doing promo for Thursday's game). I believe he said something about Bowman being a kind of "under the radar" star of some sort, and he and the other guy said that coach Thompson is doing a great job.

See, it's not all about Duke at the Worldwide Leader.

[GUHoya07]

Is Dickie V doing the game on thursday?

[FLHoya]

joehoya said:

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the comments that Dick VItale made about the Hoyas tonight at the end of the MSU-BC game (doing promo for Thursday's game). I believe he said something about Bowman being a kind of "under the radar" star of some sort, and he and the other guy said that coach Thompson is doing a great job.

Yeah see, that's nice he had good things to say about Brandon, but it isn't like Brandon has strung together a real impressive series of games lately. So the comment seems kind of obtuse in a way. That's the problem with Dicky V. when he's not talking about one of his "pet" schools--he just spits out these canned lines that really aren't insightful. "Yeah baby, that [insert senior player] is a real under-the-radar star!" He used to Edited me off in the late 90s when he'd talk about Miami when they were a Top 25 team, b/c EVERY SINGLE TIME he talked about them during a telecast/studio show he'd give the EXACT SAME CANNED LINE about "Leonard Hamilton's got them playing good..." and you KNEW he couldn't have told you more than 1 player who played for Miami.

He'll gush for hours about the minute details of J.J. Redick's game, but honestly, he could have inserted like 20 other people's names in for Bowman's there if the promo had been for some other game, and it would have been the same thing--just throw 'em a bone to hold them over until you're back to the Jason Williams is the second best PG in the country behind Jason Kidd rant.

[TheCashew05]

I think it's only a matter of time before Vitale has a stock line for JTIII and the Hoyas every year. He's never going to love us, but you know he's going to jump on the JTIII bandwagon when things start really going well for us.

[RDF]

And showing how in tune he is with Hoya Program, he was doing Jimmy V Tournament and despite the fact III wanted things private, it's public knowledge what is going on with his wife, and wouldn't that strike you as something Vitale might want to mention when working an event like this-I don't begrudge him for it, but it's something you would think fits into the telecast more than a Brandon Bowman mention.

[theEDGEfactor]

mary got the chance to beat gw and didnt give us our oppurtunity b4 u say whose best

[DanMcQ]

Dukie V used his stock Rain Man line about Bowman: "he can FLAT OUT PLAY" in the middle of his stream of consciousness.

I'm thinking of developing Dukie V BINGO cards with his catch phrases. I figure each game would have a winner within 5 minutes or less.

[Frank Black]

Other than Craig Esherick, there isn't a human being alive that arouses the ire of hoyatalk more than Dick Vitale. I think people are too hard on him myself. Yeah, the fawning over Duke is annoying but its only because Duke really is the class of college basketball. Never any real scandals surrounding the program, absolutely electric home atmosphere, top five program with top five talent and great coaching every single year. The jealousy is a bit unbecoming if you ask me.

[Locker]

Sure there's jealousy. But much of the resentment towards Vitale and Duke comes from the nonstop campaign to go far beyond the facts of Duke's fine basketball program and to make it into something it's not. If you only listened to Vitale's take on the program and Coach K, would you ever guess that:

--when it comes to consistently combining high academic standards and competitive teams, Duke is not even on the same planet as Stanford

--Coach K lost the 1990 Goodwill Games (no one remembers this, but everyone killed JT2 for being a crummy coach in 1988)

--Corey Maggette accepted $35,000 from his crack dealer AAU coach

--Coack K hung Pete Gaudet out to dry for the crummy 1995 team that Coach K put together (whose 14 losses were expunged from Coach K's career record, even though Duke's official records don't list Gaudet as one of the university's head basketball coaches)

With that record, Duke should not be treated as the ultra-exceptional case that they are. I mean, have WE ever had a player who got paid thousands of dollars? Has Carolina?

I know Duke and Coach K are not perfect. So Vitale can stop right now trying convince me ad nauseam -- in every appearance that he makes -- that they are.

[JohnnyTwoTimes]

locker said:

--Coach K lost the 1990 Goodwill Games (no one remembers this, but everyone killed JT2 for being a crummy coach in 1988)

Not the Goodwill Games, the World Championships, a much more significant event. But the point remains, you are right, JT gets a lot of crap and Coach K always gets a free pass (so does Denny Crum, who lost to Brazil in the Pan Am games before JT, in '87). The fact is the rest of the world was catching up to the collegians at that point, pure and simple.

It's always rubbed me the wrong way that JT caught so much flak where others did not - I know it was the Olympics but I have always thought that race played a role in the unbalanced criticism.

[Frank Black]

I don't think race had anything to do with it, but I do think people disliked JTII and were actually rooting against the US in 1988, which is pretty bad.
And while the world was catching up with the US, the style JTII employed at the Olympics seemed doomed from the start. And as bad as losing at the Pan Am games in 1987 or the World Championships in 1990 is, these events are not the Olympic Games.

[CO_Hoya]

guhoya2007 said:

Is Dickie V doing the game on thursday?

That's the word on the Illini board.

[Locker]

johnnytwotimes said:

Not the Goodwill Games, the World Championships, a much more significant event.

Actually, upon further review, we're both right: Coach K lost the World Championships AND the Goodwill Games in 1990. Maybe he could figure out a way to put that on Pete Gaudet's resume...

[AvantGuardHoya]

frankblack said:

I don't think race had anything to do with it, but I do think people disliked JTII and were actually rooting against the US in 1988, which is pretty bad.
And while the world was catching up with the US, the style JTII employed at the Olympics seemed doomed from the start. And as bad as losing at the Pan Am games in 1987 or the World Championships in 1990 is, these events are not the Olympic Games.

If you don’t think there was/is a kernel of racism in the negative opinion certain folks had/have with respect to Big John, I wonder what rock you’ve been stuck under!

As far as the style he employed being doomed from the start, my recollection is that we were considered co-favorites with the USSR to win the gold. And while we did lose to them in the semis, we played the game without one of the squad’s best perimeter players, Hersey Hawkins, who was injured and got only limited play from another top scorer, Danny Manning, due to foul trouble. It was the only game we lost in those Olympics. The real problem was that the ’88 Olympics were the first time the Soviets and the U.S. had faced one another since 1972 debacle. So Americans certainly were revved up for the contest. Losing to the USSR was not an option….

Yes, the other international competitions pale in comparison to the Olympics, but you’d think JTII was the only US coach who’d lost in international play, the way he’s been savaged for 1988. For whatever reason, losing in two separate international events in the summer of 1990 seems not to be as problematic to the perception of Coach K. I ain’t trying to start anything with this comment, but could race have anything to do with that?

BTW, isn't it interesting that Boeheim assisted Coach K during both 1990 events. Might the blame really be his? Here's hoping the third time's the charm -- Boeheim will be on the bench again for the '08 Olympics.

[CAHoya07]

guhoya2007 said:

Is Dickie V doing the game on thursday?

According to our game notes, it'll be Brent Musberger and Steve Lavin.

www.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/gu/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/IllinoisNotes

[RockawayHoya]

I don't know how my Lunardi thread degraded into a bash Dukie V thread, but I'll oblige:

Here's what I find exceptionally annoying. I don't have any problem with him praising Duke just like I wouldn't have any problem him praising any other program which has achieved long-standing success. However, there are just times when you find yourself asking, "Why is he even mentioning them?" Cases in point:

1) During the 'Nova-Oklahoma game, when Kyle Lowry made that ridiculous acrobatic layup at the end of the 1st half, Vitale started praising him for playing "with the passion for the game, like J.J. Redick down at Duke (one of his trademark catchphrases)." What does a tough layup by Kyle Lowry have ANYTHING to do with Duke or J.J. Redick? Nothing! Neither of those teams even play in the ACC. And what does hitting a layup in traffic have anything to do with playing with a passion for the game? Just a completely random reference that seems so forced.

2) I honestly forget which game it was, but it might have been the BC-Michigan State game last night where Michigan State was knocking down all their free throws, and of course another J.J. Redick comparison comes out ("You wanna talk about the great free throw shooters at this level, you have to talk about J.J. Redick down at Duke, etc."). Happens all the time when a team/player knocks down all their free throws. It's the equivalent of a guy knocking down 6 for 6 in an NBA game and being compared to Reggie Miller. EVERY TIME.

3) Anytime a coach has been deemed to have done something right, for example by his team exemplifying sound fundamentals or execution (for even a play), a Coach K reference will undoubtably come out, along with the phrases "his kids know how to play the right way." I'm sure Coach K isn't the only coach in America who knows his X's and O's and get his kids to play hard.

4) Any time you see a loud and supportive crowd before a game (i.e. the Pavilion last Saturday), you'll get an obligatory "This is what college basketball is all about. This is like the great places in the country to play, like Cameron Indoor and Phog Allen and..." As if Cameron was one of only 5 hostile environments to play in across the nation.

The point is, he makes multiple and constant references to Duke during games which don't even remotely involve them. Seriously, next time you're watching a game that Vitale's doing, see if he can go 5 minutes (by the game clock) without mentioning any aspect regarding Duke. He can't.

[HoyaNJ5]

rockawayhoya said:

I don't know how my Andy Katz thread degraded into a bash Dukie V thread, but I'll oblige:

Here's what I find exceptionally annoying. I don't have any problem with him praising Duke just like I wouldn't have any problem him praising any other program which has achieved long-standing success. However, there are just times when you find yourself asking, "Why is he even mentioning them?" Cases in point:

1) During the 'Nova-Oklahoma game, when Kyle Lowry made that ridiculous acrobatic layup at the end of the 1st half, Vitale started praising him for playing "with the passion for the game, like J.J. Redick down at Duke (one of his trademark catchphrases)." What does a tough layup by Kyle Lowry have ANYTHING to do with Duke or J.J. Redick? Nothing! Neither of those teams even play in the ACC. And what does hitting a layup in traffic have anything to do with playing with a passion for the game? Just a completely random reference that seems so forced.

2) I honestly forget which game it was, but it might have been the BC-Michigan State game last night where Michigan State was knocking down all their free throws, and of course another J.J. Redick comparison comes out ("You wanna talk about the great free throw shooters at this level, you have to talk about J.J. Redick down at Duke, etc."). Happens all the time when a team/player knocks down all their free throws. It's the equivalent of a guy knocking down 6 for 6 in an NBA game and being compared to Reggie Miller. EVERY TIME.

3) Anytime a coach has been deemed to have done something right, for example by his team exemplifying sound fundamentals or execution (for even a play), a Coach K reference will undoubtably come out, along with the phrases "his kids know how to play the right way." I'm sure Coach K isn't the only coach in America who knows his X's and O's and get his kids to play hard.

4) Any time you see a loud and supportive crowd before a game (i.e. the Pavilion last Saturday), you'll get an obligatory "This is what college basketball is all about. This is like the great places in the country to play, like Cameron Indoor and Phog Allen and..." As if Cameron was one of only 5 hostile environments to play in across the nation.

The point is, he makes multiple and constant references to Duke during games which doesn't even remotely involve them. Seriously, next time you're watching a game that Vitale's doing, see if he can go 5 minutes (by the game clock) without mentioning any aspect regarding Duke. He can't.

Bingo. You hit it right on the head, especially with #1 and #2.

[SirSaxa]

avantguardhoya said:

frankblack said:

I don't think race had anything to do with it, but I do think people disliked JTII and were actually rooting against the US in 1988, which is pretty bad.
And while the world was catching up with the US, the style JTII employed at the Olympics seemed doomed from the start. And as bad as losing at the Pan Am games in 1987 or the World Championships in 1990 is, these events are not the Olympic Games.

If you don’t think there was/is a kernel of racism in the negative opinion certain folks had/have with respect to Big John, I wonder what rock you’ve been stuck under!

I'll have to agree with AGH on this one. Lots of coaches are disliked... Bobby knight, Boeheim, Lappas.... but fans wouldn't carry that "hatred" to cheering AGAINST the US team unless it was more than that.

The primary reasons people didn't like JT (IMHO) was that he was black AND he was outspoken, arrogant and wouldn't back down to anyone. His teams played VERY aggressive defense and were all black at a white school.

Being black was not the only reason people didn't like him, but for a certain segment of our population, being black and successful, and not being modest about it is a big issue.

On the other hand the black community (someone correct me if I am wrong) adored the guy for exactly these reasons. And it helped JT immensely in recruiting.

I think it helped GU too because the Univeristy took a stand and hired an African American head coach when others would not. JT did MORE than his part by building arguably the top program in America for the decade of the 80's.

JT3, on the other hand, is a different personality and black coaches are far more common and accepted today. I imagine he will never face the kinds of things his Pops did. But it would not surpise me at all that 20 years from now, we look back and say that on the court the son equalled, or even surpassed, the father.