kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Jun 15, 2024 13:34:25 GMT -5
Talent is good enough for middle of the pack Big East and tournament bubble. Need to see if they can be coached well. Middle of the pack big east isn't getting near the bubble with their non conference schedule
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bluechi
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Post by bluechi on Jun 15, 2024 20:34:21 GMT -5
Talent is good enough for middle of the pack Big East and tournament bubble. Need to see if they can be coached well. Middle of the pack big east isn't getting near the bubble with their non conference schedule What is the schedule?
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Jun 15, 2024 20:59:59 GMT -5
Middle of the pack big east isn't getting near the bubble with their non conference schedule What is the schedule? Well it's the same so far as last season except slightly worse when you swap in WVU and St Francis for TCU and American. We can revisit this if it improves.
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Post by jctnhoya4ever on Jun 17, 2024 8:58:25 GMT -5
This roster not middle of pack the big east is always loaded it’s what the other teams have. This group will be better than last season, but not enough improvement for 2 season. Cooley has to show more. Can he get a top 25 player. And 4/5 top 75 recruits? Until then you can’t compete in the big east . I see 13-14 wins that’s not good enough. Might as well go to aac or mid majors. It’s sad this university can’t win anymore. Sad.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Jun 17, 2024 10:21:30 GMT -5
Well it's the same so far as last season except slightly worse when you swap in WVU and St Francis for TCU and American. We can revisit this if it improves. ND should be better this season I’d expect, but then again we play that at home I believe
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Post by hibernatinghoyafan on Jun 17, 2024 12:04:55 GMT -5
This roster not middle of pack the big east is always loaded it’s what the other teams have. This group will be better than last season, but not enough improvement for 2 season. Cooley has to show more. Can he get a top 25 player. And 4/5 top 75 recruits? Until then you can’t compete in the big east . I see 13-14 wins that’s not good enough. Might as well go to aac or mid majors. It’s sad this university can’t win anymore. Sad. We have 5 top 75 guys on this roster in Sorber, Peavy, Mulready, McKenna, Epps with other 4* kids being Williams and Fielder. We have a ton of highly ranked kids with the other 3 being a top 25 transfer (Mack), and then two 3* kids in Williams and Burks. Last year we could/should have won at least 6 BE games - X (H&A) Providence (A), and Seton Hall (H). Every other team has gotten worse on paper except Creighton/X and we’ve gotten significantly stronger. I don’t think it’s objectively unreasonable to assume that we could/should win 6+ BE games if we should/could have last year with a better conference and a significantly worse team. That’s just my 2 cents. I’d say my happiness/contentment floor for the upcoming season is 8-12 in the BE. Players needs to step up and we need to get lucky and have a young guy/project step up and significantly outplay his perceived ranking. Still really want a center but if the Fielder and Sorber combo at the 5 can just be mediocre in the BE then I love our guards and wings ability to win us some games.
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Post by hoyasaxaphone on Jun 17, 2024 16:09:41 GMT -5
With any kind of defensive improvement, I think it should be hard for this team to win less than 8 games in the Big East. As noted, there are a lot of quality recruits on the team....but they are young and unproven at the college level. Last year's team had Epps and two other four stars in Brumbaugh and Styles (each with some time in college under their belt, even if minutes were limited or non-existant). While not all of our "new" guys are likely going to impress, some may, and there is a deeper pool of talent to draw from to find out who emerges. On paper, this team should be very competitive a year or two out. Just not sure what teams those guys are going to on then.....
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Jun 18, 2024 13:51:59 GMT -5
This roster not middle of pack the big east is always loaded it’s what the other teams have. This group will be better than last season, but not enough improvement for 2 season. Cooley has to show more. Can he get a top 25 player. And 4/5 top 75 recruits? Until then you can’t compete in the big east . I see 13-14 wins that’s not good enough. Might as well go to aac or mid majors. It’s sad this university can’t win anymore. Sad. We have 5 top 75 guys on this roster in Sorber, Peavy, Mulready, McKenna, Epps with other 4* kids being Williams and Fielder. We have a ton of highly ranked kids with the other 3 being a top 25 transfer (Mack), and then two 3* kids in Williams and Burks. Last year we could/should have won at least 6 BE games - X (H&A) Providence (A), and Seton Hall (H). Every other team has gotten worse on paper except Creighton/X and we’ve gotten significantly stronger. I don’t think it’s objectively unreasonable to assume that we could/should win 6+ BE games if we should/could have last year with a better conference and a significantly worse team. That’s just my 2 cents. I’d say my happiness/contentment floor for the upcoming season is 8-12 in the BE. Players needs to step up and we need to get lucky and have a young guy/project step up and significantly outplay his perceived ranking. Still really want a center but if the Fielder and Sorber combo at the 5 can just be mediocre in the BE then I love our guards and wings ability to win us some games. Dont disagree with the above analysis but it is depressing. We were so bad last season and we are, at best, going to be marginally better this year, with 8-12 a success floor (I personally think 8-12 is a reach right now and more the ceiling). Where is this program going?
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guru
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Post by guru on Jun 18, 2024 14:47:43 GMT -5
We have 5 top 75 guys on this roster in Sorber, Peavy, Mulready, McKenna, Epps with other 4* kids being Williams and Fielder. We have a ton of highly ranked kids with the other 3 being a top 25 transfer (Mack), and then two 3* kids in Williams and Burks. Last year we could/should have won at least 6 BE games - X (H&A) Providence (A), and Seton Hall (H). Every other team has gotten worse on paper except Creighton/X and we’ve gotten significantly stronger. I don’t think it’s objectively unreasonable to assume that we could/should win 6+ BE games if we should/could have last year with a better conference and a significantly worse team. That’s just my 2 cents. I’d say my happiness/contentment floor for the upcoming season is 8-12 in the BE. Players needs to step up and we need to get lucky and have a young guy/project step up and significantly outplay his perceived ranking. Still really want a center but if the Fielder and Sorber combo at the 5 can just be mediocre in the BE then I love our guards and wings ability to win us some games. Dont disagree with the above analysis but it is depressing. We were so bad last season and we are, at best, going to be marginally better this year, with 8-12 a success floor (I personally think 8-12 is a reach right now and more the ceiling). Where is this program going? 8-12? In conference? That would be a massive success for this roster.
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Post by jctnhoya4ever on Jun 19, 2024 13:20:41 GMT -5
I don’t get why not use another scholarship to get another big man a grad student with just this year left. It can’t hurt anything because if fielder or another big get hurt you really thin up front. I don’t understand anything Cooley is doing. He don’t seem to much in a hurry to win. I guess he thinks high school recruiting and juniors and seniors will win? They can but they will transfer, so you can’t go that route anymore. You need impact transfers and 5-6 of them every year. Look at Kentucky and Arkansas the whole roster is transfers and most of duke is to. It’s the new way of winning. Get with it or lose. I don’t get it Georgetown must be a tremendously hard sell? I guess that is why he can’t get more top transfers come off the money and pay up. Or go mid majors.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 21, 2024 7:57:39 GMT -5
I guess your optimism of the season depends how bullish one is on a number of players. I am guilty of being somewhat bullish. I am all in with Malik Mack; I believe he brings a dynamism to the team that was lacking last season. I am of the view that the guy who suited up for Harvard before mono is the player the Hoyas are more likely to get, but even the guy that played after the mono wasn’t half bad. I think he can be special. Most importantly he will take the ball out of Jayden’s hands more while also giving defenders another person to strictly concentrate on other than Jayden. Jayden did not have a teammate like that last season and I believe he will benefit from not having to be both the primary ballhandler and the primary scorer. That lessening of a load along with one more year under his belt may lead to Jayden being more efficient. While there may be a height issue, I’m confident that the Jayden malik backcourt could give defenses all types of grief. I was disappointed and surprised by Rowan leaving; I felt he would be a top notch high D1 guard by the time he became a junior. But neither he or Heath offered Epps a backcourt partner with this much capability last season. As a result I figure that this upcoming season’s backcourt will be better.
So lets just say Drew Fielder gets the starting center spot. This seems like a possibility that some people have been reluctant to concede and others seem weary of. Once more…I’m bullish. Months earlier in a thread I laid down the extremely promising analytics of Fielder’s first season and how it had been overlooked by Hoya fandom. Here’s a quick rundown:
-Fielder was second on team in 2-point FG%, overall FG% and eFG% -First on the team in three-point FG % -Second on team in blocks -Best on team in Assist to Turnover ratio -Best ORtg on team -Best DRtg on team
From an analytical standpoint those numbers are awesome, even if there is a small sample size. Sometimes the small sample size makes his results that more impressive. Compare him to Cook who he would be replacing. Cook had 400 more minutes on the floor but only had 16 blocks to Fielder’s 20. Fielder my not be a rim protector but from those numbers it appears he could be far more effective on that front than Cook. Also Cook only 18 assists to Fielder’s 23 despite playing twice as many minutes. Cook had a much higher turnover rate than Fielder too. Where Cook distanced himself from Fielder was on the boards. Cook was a beast when it came to rebounding, in particular on the offensive glass where he was ELITE. Its doubtful Fielder could match those numbers even after given more minutes. Yet while that category is important it’s the only one in which Fielder comes up way short to Cook.
The footage of Fielder in high school demonstrated to my eyes that he had a bunch of good moves to work with in the paint. We didn’t see much of it last season probably as a result of needed strength, confidence and opportunity. Hopefully this won’t be the case for this upcoming season. But what I will say about Fielder’s freshmen year is that down the stretch the Hoyas found themselves sticking closer to their opponents because of Fielder. His ability to shoot (knocking down quick threes) and to drive opened up the offense for the Hoyas. He became a threat that defenders had to go out and guard on the perimeter and that improved the spacing for the Hoyas. If Fielder makes the jump (which I’m betting he will) then we should have a more productive and versatile center than we had in Cook last year. And in Sorber I believe we will have a better backup from the bench than Fielder was in his first season.
The X-Factor or wild card may be Drew McKenna who I feel is the most versatile and offensively gifted of the new faces. The clips of I have caught of him online and the games I saw of him in person convinces me of this. I know there is not much to go by of him on YouTube, you’ll have better luck doing deep dive searches on Twitter. But he is a remarkable prospect. In terms of height he s legitimately around the 6’8 range. As an offensive weapon he can score at all three levels, with his three point shot looking so clean. However his dribbling ability goes underappreciated. I think he has enough of that skill to be able to bring the ball up the court at moments, taking the pressure off our primary ballhandlers. I already wrote a glowing report on him based upon what I saw in KL last summer. He delivered what was by fat the best performance of any Hoya and he did so as a highschooler who had yet to start his senior year. I wouldn’t call him a replacement for Styles, that looks to be more of Micah Peavy’s role. He would bring a better set of skills to the wing than Styles in my opinion. And now that he has added on real muscle I think he could get away playing the four in college, another guy who can face up and stretch the floor. He has become the forgotten man for one reason or another. Here’s my controversial take: of the loaded 2024 high school class in the DMV (of which I am McKenna to still be part of) I think his upside is as good as any of them.
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Jun 21, 2024 8:40:05 GMT -5
These are some great points, and real reason for optimism.
Mack is the key I agree - his ability to turn the corner and get in the lane and create for himself and others. You need that, and we just didn't have it last year.
And I also agree that it's becoming clear that Fielder is the guy up front. The guy I saw at MSG late in the season vs St. John's was impressive - both his skills and his competitiveness. You make a jump off that, including more strength, and that's a nice piece.
I'm wondering, if you start Fielder and Burks up front....Fielder has to be the one who matches up and bangs with the other team's big...but we need Burks for weak side help. We also need him to generally be a defensive presence on ball drives. And need him big time on the boards too. Can he provide this? Maybe Kenner will give us some indication.
I haven't really seen McKenna play, so I hope you are on to something with that one.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 21, 2024 10:56:09 GMT -5
These are some great points, and real reason for optimism. Mack is the key I agree - his ability to turn the corner and get in the lane and create for himself and others. You need that, and we just didn't have it last year. And I also agree that it's becoming clear that Fielder is the guy up front. The guy I saw at MSG late in the season vs St. John's was impressive - both his skills and his competitiveness. You make a jump off that, including more strength, and that's a nice piece. I'm wondering, if you start Fielder and Burks up front....Fielder has to be the one who matches up and bangs with the other team's big...but we need Burks for weak side help. We also need him to generally be a defensive presence on ball drives. And need him big time on the boards too. Can he provide this? Maybe Kenner will give us some indication. I haven't really seen McKenna play, so I hope you are on to something with that one. My only quibble is so many Hoya fans say they have not seen McKenna play. Have they seen Burks play though? Did he have more than two minutes of playing time for highlights last season. ? It feels like people are slotting this guy in because he was on the Kentucky roster last season, not for anything he actually did. Because of that it should be at best a coin flip among Hoya fandom on this site about who starts. Instead everyone appear to be leaning toward Burks.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 21, 2024 11:41:40 GMT -5
There are plenty of improvements. - Mack adds a second player on the team who can create off the dribble, and who can create in a low shot clock environment. We lost several games last year in large part because the opponent knew the play was going to Epps late because we simply had no one else who could reliably create a shot. The closest was Styles' Kobe/MJ fade-away but he couldn't get it reliably. It's not just about Mack's skillset, it's about always having one of the two on the floor, and forcing the defense to defend both in terms of driving. It's also an outlet when Epps is cold, though that will take some good decision making.
- The overall length of the team is vastly improved. Peavey, Burks, McKenna, Williams, Sorber plus more time for Fielder are all improvements on size with the only downgrade really being from Jay Heath to Mack, and Heath couldn't defend my grandma. The overall athleticism is way up as well -- Mack, Mulready, McKenna, Burks, Peavey, both Williams. Does this gurantee a good defense? No, but the floor and ceiling should be higher.
- The fact that we are starting from a low point in terms of returning seems to obfuscate a Top 20 recruiting class (when I put in McKenna) and a Top 25 transfer class. Plus I will add in that Fielder was a lot better than people want to admit last year, despite injury at points. Yes, it's tough to go from 2-18 to something, and yes, we're young, but we also had several complete anchors last year. We will be young and probably error prone, but I don't think we are going to be giving minutes to anyone like Massoud, who was terrible on offense and defense.
- Last year sucked, but roster-wise, this team is much more a Cooley team. And despite last year, he does have a track record of player improvement. His record at Providence was not spectacular, but it was strong for the talent that was there.
And there's reason to be concerned. - It's really hard to improve this much, to have a good team with this much turnover, and with this many young players.
- Big man depth is a very real issue, and if Fisher and Sorber can't stay on the floor for any reason, we will have to play small again.
- The defensive upside is there, but freshmen usually aren't very good at it.
- We didn't have an elite shooting team last year, but when a couple of guys were on, it kept us in games. Is there enough between Mack and whomever to offset the loss of Heath and Styles?
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Jun 21, 2024 12:01:30 GMT -5
Regarding Burks & McKenna - for me I think it's seeing his clips in that Kentucky uniform...and then totally ignoring that it's coming either in a huge blowout or against Marshall or Stonehill.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jun 21, 2024 12:23:18 GMT -5
These are some great points, and real reason for optimism. Mack is the key I agree - his ability to turn the corner and get in the lane and create for himself and others. You need that, and we just didn't have it last year. And I also agree that it's becoming clear that Fielder is the guy up front. The guy I saw at MSG late in the season vs St. John's was impressive - both his skills and his competitiveness. You make a jump off that, including more strength, and that's a nice piece. I'm wondering, if you start Fielder and Burks up front....Fielder has to be the one who matches up and bangs with the other team's big...but we need Burks for weak side help. We also need him to generally be a defensive presence on ball drives. And need him big time on the boards too. Can he provide this? Maybe Kenner will give us some indication. I haven't really seen McKenna play, so I hope you are on to something with that one. My only quibble is so many Hoya fans say they have not seen McKenna play. Have they seen Burks play though? Did he have more than two minutes of playing time for highlights last season. ? It feels like people are slotting this guy in because he was on the Kentucky roster last season, not for anything he actually did. Because of that it should be at best a coin flip among Hoya fandom on this site about who starts. Instead everyone appear to be leaning toward Burks. Burks is a junior coming from a blue blood program. I don't think it is unreasonable to speculate that he is more likely to be more ready than a freshman. If McKenna earns the starting role because he is that good....all the better.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 21, 2024 12:23:38 GMT -5
I think McKenna can be a productive three-point shooter right now and of course more time for Fielder means another option from that range as well.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 21, 2024 12:33:46 GMT -5
My only quibble is so many Hoya fans say they have not seen McKenna play. Have they seen Burks play though? Did he have more than two minutes of playing time for highlights last season. ? It feels like people are slotting this guy in because he was on the Kentucky roster last season, not for anything he actually did. Because of that it should be at best a coin flip among Hoya fandom on this site about who starts. Instead everyone appear to be leaning toward Burks. Burks is a junior coming from a blue blood program. I don't think it is unreasonable to speculate that he is more likely to be more ready than a freshman. -Burks is a sophomore -He wasn’t listed in the RSCI which means he wasn’t a Top 100 recruit of his class unlike McKenna who was in his 2024 class’ RSCI before he skipped his senior season -McKenna has a semester head start over him in regards to knowing how the Hoya coaching system.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jun 21, 2024 12:35:08 GMT -5
There are plenty of improvements. - Mack adds a second player on the team who can create off the dribble, and who can create in a low shot clock environment. We lost several games last year in large part because the opponent knew the play was going to Epps late because we simply had no one else who could reliably create a shot. The closest was Styles' Kobe/MJ fade-away but he couldn't get it reliably. It's not just about Mack's skillset, it's about always having one of the two on the floor, and forcing the defense to defend both in terms of driving. It's also an outlet when Epps is cold, though that will take some good decision making.
- The overall length of the team is vastly improved. Peavey, Burks, McKenna, Williams, Sorber plus more time for Fielder are all improvements on size with the only downgrade really being from Jay Heath to Mack, and Heath couldn't defend my grandma. The overall athleticism is way up as well -- Mack, Mulready, McKenna, Burks, Peavey, both Williams. Does this gurantee a good defense? No, but the floor and ceiling should be higher.
- The fact that we are starting from a low point in terms of returning seems to obfuscate a Top 20 recruiting class (when I put in McKenna) and a Top 25 transfer class. Plus I will add in that Fielder was a lot better than people want to admit last year, despite injury at points. Yes, it's tough to go from 2-18 to something, and yes, we're young, but we also had several complete anchors last year. We will be young and probably error prone, but I don't think we are going to be giving minutes to anyone like Massoud, who was terrible on offense and defense.
- Last year sucked, but roster-wise, this team is much more a Cooley team. And despite last year, he does have a track record of player improvement. His record at Providence was not spectacular, but it was strong for the talent that was there.
And there's reason to be concerned. - It's really hard to improve this much, to have a good team with this much turnover, and with this many young players.
- Big man depth is a very real issue, and if Fisher and Sorber can't stay on the floor for any reason, we will have to play small again.
- The defensive upside is there, but freshmen usually aren't very good at it.
- We didn't have an elite shooting team last year, but when a couple of guys were on, it kept us in games. Is there enough between Mack and whomever to offset the loss of Heath and Styles?
Very balanced assessment. Of course there are concerns but there is reason for optimism as a result of the new arrivals. Happy that someone finally notes that while we are not bigger in the pivot, we have improved the length of the team elsewhere, the sole exception being at the guard position. I think an equally big concern aside from the lack of another post is the loss of perimeter shooting. Heath was solid and Styles and Bristol were somewhat streaky. Hopefully McKenna can help fill the role.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jun 21, 2024 12:43:23 GMT -5
I think an equally big concern aside from the lack of another post is the loss of perimeter shooting. Heath was solid and Styles and Bristol were somewhat streaky. Hopefully McKenna can help fill the role. It's a real concern. I am always very cautious with freshmen in terms of shooting, so while McKenna or another frosh could bring something, I would not want to bank of it. We lost about 350 3PA at 37% in Heath, Rowan and Styles. Mack had 127 at 35% and great FT shooting. Fielder will probably get a bunch more attempts and he shot 40%. Maybe he gets another 50-75 attempts. I think that means we're missing about 150-200 attempts at a quality level. That's tough to fill when everyone else is either an unknown or had poor numbers last year. I think Epps can improve with some better decision making, but we are going to be relying on improvement and freshmen to fill. We're likely to need a stronger shift to 2 point attempts and getting to the line, frankly.
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