drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on May 25, 2024 11:32:59 GMT -5
Anyone else get the feeling that this is the end of college - especially Hoya - basketball as we know it?
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jpj
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by jpj on May 25, 2024 11:53:54 GMT -5
Anyone else get the feeling that this is the end of college - especially Hoya - basketball as we know it? not just College Basketball but all College sports 1) most college athletics programs are loss leaders that situation just got worse a few athletic departments have already begun laying off employees, or non hiring of replacements, due to this expected revenue drop 2) the business model was to take revenue from men's bball and football programs and use that to fund the rest of the non-revenue sports that just took a hit 3) there will be a lot of fall out in multiple dimensions one thing i see is a) a super conference of football and men's BBall consisting of the top 40-60 programs they will have the major tv/media contracts the other programs will play a selected regional and local schedule as hey cannot afford the buy the talent that the super conference has. b) the super conference model will extend to 20-30 members in non revenue sports for schools which choose to pay the bill for that type of exposure; the rest go to a local or regional schedule as an effort to minimize costs/losses |
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on May 25, 2024 12:51:56 GMT -5
Money and greed ruins something beautiful
A tale as old as time
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 25, 2024 12:56:09 GMT -5
Anyone else get the feeling that this is the end of college - especially Hoya - basketball as we know it? not just College Basketball but all College sports 1) most college athletics programs are loss leaders that situation just got worse a few athletic departments have already begun laying off employees, or non hiring of replacements, due to this expected revenue drop 2) the business model was to take revenue from men's bball and football programs and use that to fund the rest of the non-revenue sports that just took a hit 3) there will be a lot of fall out in multiple dimensions one thing i see is a) a super conference of football and men's BBall consisting of the top 40-60 programs
they will have the major tv/media contracts
the other programs will play a selected regional and local schedule as hey cannot afford the buy the talent that the super conference has.b) the super conference model will extend to 20-30 members in non revenue sports for schools which choose to pay the bill for that type of exposure; the rest go to a local or regional schedule as an effort to minimize costs/losses This won't work for CBB because there won't be enough games to make it worth it from a TV perspective. Also, add in the fact that CBB only has 13 scholarships so it'd be impossible for a super conference to hoard all the talent because kids want to play. As a side note any programs claiming they're laying off or not hiring in "anticipation" of a loss of revenue is just taking advantage of this lawsuit in the same way retailers gouged prices & blamed it on inflation over the past couple of years. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on May 25, 2024 13:08:54 GMT -5
not just College Basketball but all College sports 1) most college athletics programs are loss leaders that situation just got worse a few athletic departments have already begun laying off employees, or non hiring of replacements, due to this expected revenue drop 2) the business model was to take revenue from men's bball and football programs and use that to fund the rest of the non-revenue sports that just took a hit 3) there will be a lot of fall out in multiple dimensions one thing i see is a) a super conference of football and men's BBall consisting of the top 40-60 programs
they will have the major tv/media contracts
the other programs will play a selected regional and local schedule as hey cannot afford the buy the talent that the super conference has.b) the super conference model will extend to 20-30 members in non revenue sports for schools which choose to pay the bill for that type of exposure; the rest go to a local or regional schedule as an effort to minimize costs/losses This won't work for CBB because there won't be enough games to make it worth it from a TV perspective. Also, add in the fact that CBB only has 13 scholarships so it'd be impossible for a super conference to hoard all the talent because kids want to play. As a side note any programs claiming they're laying off or not hiring in "anticipation" of a loss of revenue is just taking advantage of this lawsuit in the same way retailers gouged prices & blamed it on inflation over the past couple of years. The article I read indicates that the settlement plan does away with scholarship limits, and allows wealthier schools to determine their own roster sizes. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 25, 2024 13:51:07 GMT -5
This won't work for CBB because there won't be enough games to make it worth it from a TV perspective. Also, add in the fact that CBB only has 13 scholarships so it'd be impossible for a super conference to hoard all the talent because kids want to play. As a side note any programs claiming they're laying off or not hiring in "anticipation" of a loss of revenue is just taking advantage of this lawsuit in the same way retailers gouged prices & blamed it on inflation over the past couple of years. The article I read indicates that the settlement plan does away with scholarship limits, and allows wealthier schools to determine their own roster sizes. Good call out, I didn’t know that but this won’t change the fact that kids want to play. It also doesn’t change the volume of games needed to make it worth a large tv contract or even more to the point prevent the BE from getting a big tv contract. |
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jpj
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by jpj on May 25, 2024 13:59:50 GMT -5
why does a player making $200k and up need a scholarship?
Give them another $100k in NIL money and have them pay their own tuition/room/board/fees, etc.
This frees up the resources for something else.
How about a 10-player rotation and a 5-man practice squad where the practice squad gets and a scholarships and a monthly stipend.
The practice squad suits up for all home games, and 2-3 members travel with the team on away games depending upon expected needs/injuries/etc.,
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jpj
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by jpj on May 25, 2024 14:10:52 GMT -5
@etomic
I dont understand your comment.
College Basketball schedules have 31 games
Depending upon the conference - 18 to 24 of those games are in conference.
You could have one helluva season conference schedule if those games were all within a top 40 - 60 conference
You could make every super conference game "MUST SEE TV"
still have 13 to 7 OOC games
look at who Duke, UNC, UConn, etc. are currently scheduling OOC
there are a lot of buy games against easier lesser quality opponents with 1-3 games vs opposition of similar quality to help prepare them for the Conference Schedule
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Post by centercourt400s on May 25, 2024 15:22:43 GMT -5
why does a player making $200k and up need a scholarship? Give them another $100k in NIL money and have them pay their own tuition/room/board/fees, etc. This frees up the resources for something else. How about a 10-player rotation and a 5-man practice squad where the practice squad gets and a scholarships and a monthly stipend. The practice squad suits up for all home games, and 2-3 members travel with the team on away games depending upon expected needs/injuries/etc., Your solution has no need for a university to be involved. Its just another pro-league. RIP college basketball. |
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bills
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Post by bills on May 25, 2024 15:31:37 GMT -5
Anyone else get the feeling that this is the end of college - especially Hoya - basketball as we know it? I believe we are about 2 years and a dozen or so additional lawsuits away from any high probability of what rules, laws and TV contracts will drive what is today college athletics. I think the odds of the announced settlement being in place witout substantial changes is very remote. There are two lawsuits not included and lots of pressure from the plaintifs to keep them separate. A large majority of NCAA member institutions are being told that the P5 conferences are sticking them 60% of the bill for the settlement that addresses conduct by the P5 conferences. I expect to see a number of lawsuits from member institutions and other conferences that accepting the settlement and how that is paid for needs to be approved by a significant majority of the member institutions and not dictated by a small number of members who are trying to limit their liability. Those suits could put everything on hold for several years. Finally, if the settlement were to go into effect, by October there would be a new class action lawsuit by the class of 2024 athletes, in every sport, challenging the salary cap they did not agree to. If that gets resolved to their satisfaction, the class of 2025 will challenge that cap. we have virtual anarchy in college athletics today and lawyers making a great deal of money keeping it that way. The NCAA is a paper organization that will never again exert any control over college athletics. In my opinion, the only way for this situation to be resolved is for student athletes to unionize and collectively bargain an agreement with an organization representing colleges and universities in the negotiation. That agreement would have a term and both sides would negotiate a new agreement each time the existing contract is scheduled to expire. One thing that should be part of that agreement is the ability of the college and the student athlete to agree on a multiyear employment contract. The athlete would be guaranteed a spot on the roster and a set of financial benefits for the term of that contract and could not transfer to another school until that contract runs out. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 25, 2024 15:33:19 GMT -5
@etomic I dont understand your comment. College Basketball schedules have 31 games Depending upon the conference - 18 to 24 of those games are in conference. You could have one helluva season conference schedule if those games were all within a top 40 - 60 conference You could make every super conference game "MUST SEE TV" still have 13 to 7 OOC games look at who Duke, UNC, UConn, etc. are currently scheduling OOC there are a lot of buy games against easier lesser quality opponents with 1-3 games vs opposition of similar quality to help prepare them for the Conference Schedule Let's be honest the super conference we're speaking of is already here with the Big10, ACC, SEC & Big12. So what will really change going forward? Those conferences aren't going to prevent the BE from getting a nice TV contract next year or drive the AAC or A10 or any of the top MM conferences out of business in my opinion Do you believe a game between the 41st & 48th-ranked teams will be must-see tv? I don't. As far as the financial impact, we should wait & see especially considering it's only a 10 year repayment plan. In theory those monies will flow again. |
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Post by jctnhoya4ever on May 25, 2024 15:52:01 GMT -5
I think this is what it means. The top 30 or so football teams will have the money to buy the players, after that everyone else will be mediocre or loosing teams. If all the good players go to where the money is, what does that leave? A whole lot of bad teams. The NCAA tournament will have 30 teams at .500 or less playing against the 20-30 very good teams. Bad competition all around in all sports. So it’s over as we knew it, even worse now then since nil was in place. Now a notre dame and lsu and bama will be loaded and a Wisconsin or a Maryland or Indiana will be awful in football. And the big east in basketball all will be mediocre they can’t pay for these players. It’s all but over.
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Post by reformation on May 25, 2024 23:34:30 GMT -5
A couple of questions--isn't there a salary cap and what is it. I would assume we are currently losing money on basketball the last couple of years, so I'm not sure ther's much money from basketball to subsidize other sports currently.
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on May 26, 2024 6:29:27 GMT -5
A couple of questions--isn't there a salary cap and what is it. I would assume we are currently losing money on basketball the last couple of years, so I'm not sure ther's much money from basketball to subsidize other sports currently. Sort of a salary cap but not really. And NIL $$ will still exist. IMHO, it's going to more confusion, Wild West for the forseeable future. It won't be a true salary cap on paper, but that's the read of what will occur talking to sources around the sport. How schools choose to distribute revenue is expected to be at the discretion of each school, which means athletic departments will have to figure out how to best split the around $20 million in distributed revenue. Do you funnel it all toward the money-making sports of football and basketball? Do schools protect themselves from potential Title IX lawsuits and split the revenue evenly between women's and men's sports? Do they choose to spread the revenue creatively n an attempt to be more competitive in different sports? 247sports.com/article/ncaa-lawsuit-faq-how-much-money-will-players-get-will-there-still-be-be-nil-what-happens-to-the-transfer-portal-232127792/#:~:text=Players%20will%20no%20longer%20be,around%20%2420%20million%20a%20year. |
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Post by SoCal Hoya85 on May 26, 2024 7:19:39 GMT -5
The ability to transfer without sitting out a year + NIL already killed it. This won't kill it any deader.
If we're lucky what emerges from this all is something better. I'm probably in thr minority but I'd take being in a secondary league with actual 4 year student athletes playing other 4 year student athletes. Otherwise why not just be a Wizards fan?
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bills
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by bills on May 26, 2024 7:54:40 GMT -5
I was introduced to college basketball in the lat 50’s and Georgetown basketball starting in 1966. Only the two end of year tournaments were televised. We had rivalries with St. Joes and St. John’s. I would be happy with student athletes playing student athletes at other schools and if I want to see them play, I buy a ticket and go to the games.
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Post by FromTheBeginning on May 26, 2024 9:08:43 GMT -5
One advantage the BE has Is the sheer size of the TV markets they cover. Can’t see the league not being involved in some way in a new structure. I see one or two leagues being included in bball and those leagues expanding by grabbing the best remaining teams from other leagues.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on May 26, 2024 10:55:25 GMT -5
Anyone else get the feeling that this is the end of college - especially Hoya - basketball as we know it? No. |
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on May 26, 2024 11:27:22 GMT -5
Anyone else get the feeling that this is the end of college - especially Hoya - basketball as we know it? No. Maybe I should have worded the thread, "as we've come to know it". I agree that the sport has been so corrupted by now that this agreement won't change much. But I know a lot of geezers like me still tried to hold on to the belief that somehow these college teams could still represent the colleges we went to and the idea of "student athlete" we tried to believe in. Sadly, I think this agreement does put an end to that fantasy. |
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on May 26, 2024 14:43:27 GMT -5
The ability to transfer without sitting out a year + NIL already killed it. This won't kill it any deader. If we're lucky what emerges from this all is something better. I'm probably in thr minority but I'd take being in a secondary league with actual 4 year student athletes playing other 4 year student athletes. Otherwise why not just be a Wizards fan? Not the Wizards (GO MAVS), but I 100% agree with the idea. |
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