DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 8, 2024 11:47:35 GMT -5
Wow, nothing like slamming a player literally minutes after he becomes a Hoya. Guess they were right about you DFW. THEY
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on May 8, 2024 11:48:17 GMT -5
Bizarre if accurate - how many 6'8"-6'9", 195 - 210 pound guys do we need? Still doesn't solve the massive hole we have at center. I guess the idea is to overwhelm the opposition with waves of tallish 3/4s? It's accurate. They are on Keba Keita of Utah for the 5. Where are you hearing we are in on Keita?
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on May 8, 2024 11:48:26 GMT -5
Bizarre if accurate - how many 6'8"-6'9", 195 - 210 pound guys do we need? Still doesn't solve the massive hole we have at center. I guess the idea is to overwhelm the opposition with waves of tallish 3/4s? I think Burks is the most like a 4 of any of the 6'7-6'9" guys they have. Peavy is 3. McKenna is a 2/3. Caleb is a basketball player. We will see where he fits.. Go watch Burks highlights. He looks great in the PNR.
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Post by BeantownHoya on May 8, 2024 11:50:01 GMT -5
Wow. Thats an extremely negative take. Well to be honest to spin it positively...if it's so insanely infrequent that Calipari has taken a 3 star kid in his career...then I assume in the times he has it's because he sees tremendous potential or a kid that was underrated...
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 8, 2024 11:52:03 GMT -5
Burks is the right type of fit for where we are in the process because he has a high ceiling. If he grows and is able to maximize some of that potential for us this year, it's a great addition. If he can't hack it, he'll likely be somewhere else next year. Same basic concept as Curtis Williams. Cooley has had luck with those types of players before, guys who had a lot of potential but for whatever reason it didn't click at their first stop. If he can make that work again with either of these players we will all be thrilled, and if not we will be recruiting for that scholarship again next year (and hopefully with a little more on-court success to buoy us). Peavy at 3 + Burks at 4 will be MUCH better defensively than anything we had at forward last year (mostly Styles + Massoud). I wish we could get a stud center type to minimize the burden on our young guys, but good true centers are tough to come by. I still feel like Drew Fielder is best at the 5 long-term, and if he ends up being our starter I'll live with it. He needs to keep bulking but he's a legit 6'10 and I see no reason why he can't be a decent/passable 5 defensively. And his shooting ability opens up a lot offensively, obviously. Excited to see his growth. I like the Burks signing a lot, it's what I've wanted all along honestly I'd much rather have versatile options than one dimensional players like CO, Awaka or Stewart. I'm not saying Burks is better than any of them right now but he fits Sorber & Fielder better. Burks has to be given more than one season to prove himself, the same goes for Cu. Williams or anyone on next seasons roster besides Peavey.
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on May 8, 2024 11:55:25 GMT -5
We definitely still need to add that defense/rebounding grown man center. But even just with Epps, Mack, Peavy, Burks, and Fielder as one potential rotation we are much better than last year I would think. Obviously that's not even counting the frosh and Cu Williams.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on May 8, 2024 12:09:55 GMT -5
Getting excited again after a few weeks waiting for news. We got some pieces, some solid pieces! I think we all expect Ed & staff to pull in a big. I'm looking forward to watching that happen, hopefully soon.
Then I default to the idea that Ed & staff can/will develop the talent, continue to foster a culture of hard nosed hustle, focused, no backing down, communication and play among a new group who will present as a squad of teammates ready to play hard and win - and then keep them here, committed to a vision of what could be. I want to believe that will happen, and I worry about what the portal will do to us as players, esp. the younger group, look elsewhere for more playing time and attention. Like McKenna, for example -- he came here early out of HS, redshirted, became part of the team, hung around. Word is that he's got real up side -- I just hope the staff and Ed use the summer, Kenner, and September and October to forge a team, an identity that all buy into and want to be part of every year.
TBS, we have taken potentially real steps forward over last year's team, and I am looking forward to how these next months go. Get a good big, Ed, and let's get to work!
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Post by professorhoya on May 8, 2024 12:15:28 GMT -5
Jordan Burks: He played at Overtime Elite and was the top scorer in the league and this would’ve increased his ranking by a lot. “the program is getting Overtime Elite’s leading scorer — 27.1 points per contest on 46.7% shooting to go with 7.5 rebounds, 2.9 assists, and 1.4 steals ” He does seem to be a Cooley type player. “An alpha with a dog mentality, someone who won’t be afraid of competition in practice and games.” “He’s a pit bull, that’s what we call him here. He never backs down from anybody. It doesn’t matter who we’re playing, he always shows up to play,” Weaver said. “He practices hard as hell, practices and plays super hard. You can just tell watching him play — I mean, he led OTE in scoring. That’s a league with guys about to go top-10 in the draft. He averaged over 27 points a game. He’s just a guy that brings it every day and I think Kentucky fans love him because of his personality. “He is just a blue-collar guy, someone who was under-ranked and undervalued, but he’s clearly a top-100 kid. Easily. He’s a guy that just proves it, every time he steps on the court he’s one of the best guys out there.” “His unique combination of size and skill makes him unique. Standing 6-9, 180 pounds, he’s essentially a big guard capable of playing multiple positions, a plug-and-play threat for Calipari and the Wildcats.” “He can be a three or four. The thing about him is he’s unique — stands 6-9 with over a 7-1 or 7-2 wingspan and he’s long,” www.on3.com/teams/kentucky-wildcats/news/jordan-burks-commitment-to-kentucky-was-a-no-brainer-coach-anticipates-immediate-impact/
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 8, 2024 12:22:07 GMT -5
Burks looks like a young Stromile Swift with better shooting ability. Nice addition, just seems like we're stockpiling a lot of the same types of players, but maybe he's more of a run/jump 4 than a true wing in Peavy and whatever McKenna and Williams are supposed to be. I do hope Cooley is communicating well with McKenna and Williams because this looks like they're being recruited over, which is probably necessary since we're coming off 2-18.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 8, 2024 12:23:38 GMT -5
It's never about the individual--if Burks can contribute, I'm all for him, plain and simple. The concern--and it is out there, not just from me-- is that Georgetown is a major underperformer in the portal this year.
From last night's Field of 68:
Rob Dauster: "You look at someone like a Georgetown, who we heard so much about, who was unable to put together a transfer class that we necessarily expected, we look at a program like Villanova... what are these rosters that you are looking at now and you're saying to yourself now, I just don't know how they're going to be able to live up to the expectations that maybe their fan base has, and for me, Georgetown is #1 in that list."
Jeff Goodman: "Villanova is #1, but, Georgetown, at least, yeah, Ed Cooley, I thought he'd have more right now because, obviously, they've got money, but you knew they would have to overpay, because they've been so bad for so long, and any kid that's looking at Georgetown right now, they look at Georgetown differently than we do, like, they've had no success, really to speak of, in the last 10 years, so these kids think Georgetown is a terrible program and really hasn't been good for a real long period of time."
No basketball analyst has been more supportive of Ed Cooley than Jeff Goodman and that was tough to hear, but no less true. This recruiting cycle has not made significant upgrades in the portal across the board. Mack is a step above Brumbaugh, but it's not like Brumbaugh wouldn't also be scoring a lot playing in the Ivy League. Peavy for Styles...maybe. But Williams and Burks aren't elevating this roster where it needs to be to get out of the bottom three in the Big East, and Georgetown still hasn't addressed the defensive gaps left by Bristol and Cook and the need for a consistent three point option in Big East play that Kaiden Rice, Bryson Mozone, and Ismael Massoud all failed to provide. Meanwhile, Cooley and staff haven't focused in on an unsigned local kid that could come to the program and grow within it and instead is spinning the wheel of a portal that similarly eluded Patrick Ewing and JT III.
Of this there is no doubt: Cooley can outrecruit Ewing and JTIII in his sleep. But one or more of these three factors seems apparent as the portal winds down: 1) the "We've got NIL" chant wasn't accurate, 2) Jeff Goodman's quote above is right, or 3) in contrast to freshman recruiting, the transfer recruiting was not successful this year.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on May 8, 2024 12:23:50 GMT -5
Burks averaged 27 points a game in OTE league as a senior. Kid can hoop. Now it's Ed's and staffs job to help him reach his college potential.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 8, 2024 12:27:17 GMT -5
The thing about him is he’s unique — stands 6-9 with over a 7-1 or 7-2 wingspan and he’s long,” There we are. Not to go all Jay Bilas, but wingspan is just so important on defense. The ability to alter shots without relying on vertical leap, to control passing lanes, and to close out shooters without overcommitting is basically the physical key to strong defense. The rest is mental, which is always hard to measure. But a frontline of Peavy, Burks, and someone else is going to be much tougher to score on. Now that I think on it -- and admittedly, as a Hoyas and Warriors fan my comps are limited, but his movements and size remind me of Kevon Looney.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on May 8, 2024 12:28:36 GMT -5
It's never about the individual--if Burks can contribute, I'm all for him, plain and simple. The concern--and it is out there, not just from me-- is that Georgetown is a major underperformer in the portal this year. From last night's Field of 68: Rob Dauster: " You look at someone like a Georgetown, who we heard so much about, who was unable to put together a transfer class that we necessarily expected, we look at a program like Villanova... what are these rosters that you are looking at now and you're saying to yourself now, I just don't know how they're going to be able to live up to the expectations that maybe their fan base has, and for me, Georgetown is #1 in that list."Jeff Goodman: "Villanova is #1, but, Georgetown, at least, yeah, Ed Cooley, I thought he'd have more right now because, obviously, they've got money, but you knew they would have to overpay, because they've been so bad for so long, and any kid that's looking at Georgetown right now, they look at Georgetown differently than we do, like, they've had no success, really to speak of, in the last 10 years, so these kids think Georgetown is a terrible program and really hasn't been good for a real long period of time." No basketball analyst has been more supportive of Ed Cooley than Jeff Goodman and that was tough to hear, but no less true. This recruiting cycle has not made successful upgrades in the portal across the board. Mack is a step above Brumbaugh, but it's not like Brumbaugh wouldn't also be scoring a lot playing in the Ivy League. Peavy for Styles...maybe. But Williams and Burks aren't elevating this roster where it needs to be to get out of the bottom three in the Big East, and Georgetown still hasn't addressed the defensive gaps left by Bristol and Cook and the need for a consistent three point option in Big East play that Kaiden Rice, Bryson Mozone, and Ismael Massoud all failed to provide. Meanwhile, Cooley and staff haven't focused in on an unsigned local kid that could come to the program and grow within it and instead is spinning the wheel of a portal that similarly eluded Patrick Ewing and JT III. Of this there is no doubt: Cooley can outrecruit Ewing and JTIII in his sleep. But one or more of these three factors seems apparent as the portal winds down: 1) the "We've got NIL" chant wasn't accurate, 2) Jeff Goodman's quote above is right, or 3) in contrast to freshman recruiting, the transfer recruiting was not successful this year. How do you measure success? 247 has them as 2nd best transfer class in BE. 247sports.com/season/2024-basketball/transferteamrankings/?Conference=Big-EastDefensive gaps left by Bristol and Cook? Cook was the single worst rated defensive player in the Big East I believe others have noted from advanced analytics sites. I do think I had higher expectations in the portal, but we should at least be fair in our analysis.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on May 8, 2024 12:31:18 GMT -5
I am glad the staff was able to get Burks on board! Good add with a lot of potential. Now we need a center. AND at least one more perimeter shooter--not a scorer like Epps, but someone who can hit 3s at a 38+% rate. I get the need for a post who can defend, but we still need a consistent deep threat.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on May 8, 2024 12:32:11 GMT -5
I am glad the staff was able to get Burks on board! Good add with a lot of potential. Now we need a center. AND at least one more perimeter shooter--not a scorer like Epps, but someone who can hit 3s at a 38+% rate. I get the need for a post who can defend, but we still need a consistent deep threat. I think the staff believes Williams fits that role. And yes, I know how he shot last year at Louisville.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on May 8, 2024 12:32:51 GMT -5
Burks looks like a young Stromile Swift with better shooting ability. Nice addition, just seems like we're stockpiling a lot of the same types of players, but maybe he's more of a run/jump 4 than a true wing in Peavy and whatever McKenna and Williams are supposed to be. I do hope Cooley is communicating well with McKenna and Williams because this looks like they're being recruited over, which is probably necessary since we're coming off 2-18. Recruited over? None of the kids has played a minute of Georgetown basketball. What they are doing is raising the level of competition every day in practice. Rather then competing against a walk on in practice you will be competing for a guy who has your spot or wants your spot. Rising tides lifts all boats.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 8, 2024 12:35:44 GMT -5
I'd feel differently if RB left due to Mack joining the program but the truth is he left on 3/20 which more than likely means he & Cooley didn't see eye to eye on his future with the program. That's really no different than what I said -- it was probably PT or it was NIL. Just because the exact timing of the announcements is different doesn't mean the causes weren't essentially the same. Well, three because presumably McKenna was in practices, but yes, it's not great. My point isn't that this is ideal; my point is that transfers of existing players is an inevitable risk of trying to upgrade talent, and you simply aren't going to win that every time (even acknowledging this was an argument Cooley might not have tried to "win."). We kept Fielder, Epps and McKenna, and we lost Styles and Rowan. Again, it's not "have to" but we're talking about actual people making actual decisions and real life with uncertainty. It's not so simple as people are making it out as "you do X and player Y stays." They have their own agency. We have an NIL budget; even if it's reasonably high, it's not unlimited. And sometimes you have to take risks. I would rather Cooley be honest with players than lie, frankly. Individual situations are worthless in a discussion like this. Find me aggregate data here -- we're talking about risk of people leaving, not cherry picking here or there. Duke actually made the Elite Eight and couldn't keep anyone as well. We can go back and forth. People are going to leave constantly. It's the new normal. Expecting any coach to retain a high percentage of players who are likely to see PT reduced or perhaps NIL reduced is not consistent with broader aggregate facts. (And note, the NIL market is waaaay, waaaay higher than expected. No one expected someone to get $2M. Which means budgeting may have shifted as we went.) So yeah, I would have loved to have kept Styles and Rowan in particular. But I also wanted to keep Fielder, Epps and McKenna. Is 60% good? No idea -- we don't really have a factbase here. But I think the expectation that just because there's a scholarship slot we should always expect to retain a guy, it's just not going to happen. I mean, at one point, I think I heard that Styles said this was the best locker room he's ever been in (despite the losing) but there's always other considerations. I mostly agree with what you're saying here, I left McKenna off the list because he didn't play last season. It would have been a really bad sign if he left after coming aboard early. My bottom line is that I believe success will be hard to come by at all let alone consistently if the staff is continually looking for the next best thing in the portal every season. Teams/programs have to be given the chance to develop.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on May 8, 2024 12:38:22 GMT -5
That's really no different than what I said -- it was probably PT or it was NIL. Just because the exact timing of the announcements is different doesn't mean the causes weren't essentially the same. Well, three because presumably McKenna was in practices, but yes, it's not great. My point isn't that this is ideal; my point is that transfers of existing players is an inevitable risk of trying to upgrade talent, and you simply aren't going to win that every time (even acknowledging this was an argument Cooley might not have tried to "win."). We kept Fielder, Epps and McKenna, and we lost Styles and Rowan. Again, it's not "have to" but we're talking about actual people making actual decisions and real life with uncertainty. It's not so simple as people are making it out as "you do X and player Y stays." They have their own agency. We have an NIL budget; even if it's reasonably high, it's not unlimited. And sometimes you have to take risks. I would rather Cooley be honest with players than lie, frankly. Individual situations are worthless in a discussion like this. Find me aggregate data here -- we're talking about risk of people leaving, not cherry picking here or there. Duke actually made the Elite Eight and couldn't keep anyone as well. We can go back and forth. People are going to leave constantly. It's the new normal. Expecting any coach to retain a high percentage of players who are likely to see PT reduced or perhaps NIL reduced is not consistent with broader aggregate facts. (And note, the NIL market is waaaay, waaaay higher than expected. No one expected someone to get $2M. Which means budgeting may have shifted as we went.) So yeah, I would have loved to have kept Styles and Rowan in particular. But I also wanted to keep Fielder, Epps and McKenna. Is 60% good? No idea -- we don't really have a factbase here. But I think the expectation that just because there's a scholarship slot we should always expect to retain a guy, it's just not going to happen. I mean, at one point, I think I heard that Styles said this was the best locker room he's ever been in (despite the losing) but there's always other considerations. I mostly agree with what you're saying here, I left McKenna off the list because he didn't play last season. It would have been a really bad sign if he left after coming aboard early. My bottom line is that I believe success will be hard to come by at all let alone consistently if the staff is continually looking for the next best thing in the portal every season. Teams/programs have to be given the chance to develop. Don't disagree. But how realistic is it? Marquette is a good example. Duke had been but then this years portal season happened. It seems to be the outlier rather the norm.
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conshyhoya
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Post by conshyhoya on May 8, 2024 12:38:23 GMT -5
Burks looks like a young Stromile Swift with better shooting ability. Nice addition, just seems like we're stockpiling a lot of the same types of players, but maybe he's more of a run/jump 4 than a true wing in Peavy and whatever McKenna and Williams are supposed to be. I do hope Cooley is communicating well with McKenna and Williams because this looks like they're being recruited over, which is probably necessary since we're coming off 2-18. I see him like you first said as a 4 while McKenna and Williams to me would be more of a 3.
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on May 8, 2024 12:44:27 GMT -5
People act like the transfer market is over. We still have 3 more spots and obviously one more big man is a must.
Also- stop this talk about "recruiting over" kids. We have 13 scholarships....how do you fill them without being accused over recruiting over kids? And if the kids that were "recruited over" dont cut it, they will be gone anyways and will be replaced.
I like the addition of Burks. It does not sound like he's a great shooter but a good athlete and scorer that gets to the line. The similarities with Hopkins are certainly there.
Ballhandlers- Mack/Epps Shooter- Williams Jr Defensive Wing- Peavy, Mulready Other wings- Williams, Burks/McKenna (will play 4 too) Center- Sorber/Fielder (can play 4 too)
Ideally, the last 3 spots are another ballhandler, a shooter, and a big man.
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