Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Mar 13, 2024 20:58:21 GMT -5
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astrohoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by astrohoya on Mar 13, 2024 21:00:37 GMT -5
The free throws were maddening if, but really don’t say much. You can’t plan differently to avoid it, and it says nothing predictive about the future. It is just a (very aggravating) fluke.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 13, 2024 21:10:08 GMT -5
This sh!t is irrelevant to the actual game. The spread is no different than a golf handicap. Not covering the spread means that the team underperformed. So yes for some of us who use it as a performance indicator it is most certainly relevant. Does profanity violate board policy? Check the board rules about gambling discussion. The point is more that betting lines and spreads are not relevant here. Talk about the game. Sh!t is hardly profanity, it’s my 91 year old mother’s favorite word.
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AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by AltoSaxa on Mar 13, 2024 21:17:30 GMT -5
Speaking of a spread after a game is not material to a “gambling discussion.” Not a good look to tell people what to talk about especially when, in context, underperformance is about the game. Rules for thee but not for …..
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 13, 2024 21:24:38 GMT -5
Speaking of a spread after a game is not material to a “gambling discussion.” Not a good look to tell people what to talk about especially when, in context, underperformance is about the game. Rules for thee but not for ….. While you’re moving goalposts, show me where I’ve posted gambling lines or point spreads.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 13, 2024 22:09:18 GMT -5
What happened to Epps' FT shooting tonight? A long season of free rein and minutes...
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 13, 2024 22:27:36 GMT -5
Lost by 18 to a team that’s not going to make the NCAA Tournament. Going 4-19 from the line makes the loss look worse than it is. It’s not Cooley’s fault that we missed 15 free throws especially when the guys who missed them are usually good at them. Yes, it's Cooley's fault for using (or having to use) only 8 players all season long and it caught up to them at the worst possible time...
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 13, 2024 22:56:59 GMT -5
You’ve been touting that canard all season. PC played 8 guys half the season, then 7 guys the rest of the season including tonight. Those 7 guys, 4 of whom played more than 33 minutes tonight, shot 14-18 from the line. www.bigeast.com/documents/2024/3/13//0313PCGU.PDF?id=23699The difference isn’t number of players, it’s the amount of Big East level talent on the roster.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 13, 2024 23:03:37 GMT -5
You’ve been touting that canard all season. PC played 8 guys half the season, then 7 guys the rest of the season including tonight. Those 7 guys, 4 of whom played more than 33 minutes tonight, shot 14-18 from the line. www.bigeast.com/documents/2024/3/13//0313PCGU.PDF?id=23699The difference isn’t number of players, it’s the amount of Big East level talent on the roster. When can we get somebody to find us some “Big East level talent on the roster”?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 13, 2024 23:57:01 GMT -5
You’ve been touting that canard all season. PC played 8 guys half the season, then 7 guys the rest of the season including tonight. Those 7 guys, 4 of whom played more than 33 minutes tonight, shot 14-18 from the line. www.bigeast.com/documents/2024/3/13//0313PCGU.PDF?id=23699The difference isn’t number of players, it’s the amount of Big East level talent on the roster. You mean the Providence team that’s not going to make the NCAAT with two NBA prospects, and another out for the season? Maybe with more players Providence has more options and makes the NCAAT. Other than Carter and Oduro, we’re close to them on talent. That is not a good 3FG and FT shooting Providence team and we were slightly better for the season. Btw, according to ESPN’s stats, it was actually 9 Providence guys and then 8 the rest of the season.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 14, 2024 0:46:14 GMT -5
Going 4-19 from the line makes the loss look worse than it is. It’s not Cooley’s fault that we missed 15 free throws especially when the guys who missed them are usually good at them. Yes, it's Cooley's fault for using (or having to use) only 8 players all season long and it caught up to them at the worst possible time... I am extremely confident that I can find many high minutes guys who are shooting free throws just fine in the post season. You’re reaching. I get it. Cooley didn’t do a good job this year. He didn’t turn things on the court around. I’m extremely disappointed. But the explanation for everything that goes wrong isn’t necessarily that it’s Cooley’s fault. Guys can just have off nights and it’s not necessarily more than that. We all know Cooley needs to do better. Cooley surely knows he needs to do better. And he’s our coach for a while whether people like it or not (and I know you liked the hire even if you (and I) wanted Pitino). We stunk this year and that’s on Cooley for sure. But that doesn’t mean that every single thing, like missing free throws is his fault.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 14, 2024 3:25:27 GMT -5
The spread is no different than a golf handicap. Not covering the spread means that the team underperformed. So yes for some of us who use it as a performance indicator it is most certainly relevant. Does profanity violate board policy? Check the board rules about gambling discussion. The point is more that betting lines and spreads are not relevant here. Talk about the game. Sh!t is hardly profanity, it’s my 91 year old mother’s favorite word. Your mother and my mother would have gotten along great. Mine made it to 100. Hopefully yours will, as well. As Roseanne Roseannadana used to say, it's always something. But never in my worst nightmare would I have envisioned a 4-19 game from this team.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Mar 14, 2024 4:12:39 GMT -5
Check the board rules about gambling discussion. The point is more that betting lines and spreads are not relevant here. Talk about the game. Sh!t is hardly profanity, it’s my 91 year old mother’s favorite word. Your mother and my mother would have gotten along great. Mine made it to 100. Hopefully yours will, as well. As Roseanne Roseannadana used to say, it's always something. But never in my worst nightmare would I have envisioned a 4-19 game from this team. It is the one constant with this year’s Hoyas…they find a way.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Mar 14, 2024 6:13:32 GMT -5
I can honestly say that I've never seen the best players on a D1 team miss ft's like that....and it wasn't Cook missing them. Flush this damn waste of a season down the toilet. Ed has to be very honest about if he wants another year with some of these guys. The lack of effort defensively was inexcusable.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by bostonfan on Mar 14, 2024 7:35:05 GMT -5
The free throws were maddening if, but really don’t say much. You can’t plan differently to avoid it, and it says nothing predictive about the future. It is just a (very aggravating) fluke. Free throws really did hurt last night. If you make just a decent percentage, you add another 7-9 points and the game is much closer in the last 5 minutes. Free throw shooting at that level is typically about confidence, after a guy misses a few, they start thinking too much!! Epps is normally good from the line, but last night he just lost his stroke. If he makes his normal percentage, then he ends up with close to 35+ points last night and the game is close in the last 5 minutes
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2024 7:52:10 GMT -5
Yes, it's Cooley's fault for using (or having to use) only 8 players all season long and it caught up to them at the worst possible time... I am extremely confident that I can find many high minutes guys who are shooting free throws just fine in the post season. You’re reaching. I get it. Cooley didn’t do a good job this year. He didn’t turn things on the court around. I’m extremely disappointed. But the explanation for everything that goes wrong isn’t necessarily that it’s Cooley’s fault. Guys can just have off nights and it’s not necessarily more than that. I am extremely confident that I can find many high minutes guys who are doing the opposite. As you and I agreed under Patrick Ewing, the buck stops at the head coach’s desk. He didn’t put his team in a position to have some measure of success (or not be a debacle) and he gave himself an F for his first year here. Why not believe him? All the evidence points to it.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 14, 2024 10:24:39 GMT -5
I am extremely confident that I can find many high minutes guys who are shooting free throws just fine in the post season. You’re reaching. I get it. Cooley didn’t do a good job this year. He didn’t turn things on the court around. I’m extremely disappointed. But the explanation for everything that goes wrong isn’t necessarily that it’s Cooley’s fault. Guys can just have off nights and it’s not necessarily more than that. I am extremely confident that I can find many high minutes guys who are doing the opposite. As you and I agreed under Patrick Ewing, the buck stops at the head coach’s desk. He didn’t put his team in a position to have some measure of success (or not be a debacle) and he gave himself an F for his first year here. Why not believe him? All the evidence points to it. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s possible both for Cooley to have an F for his first year, while also recognizing that not every single thing that happened this year was directly related to something he did (like missing free throws).
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2024 10:28:35 GMT -5
I am extremely confident that I can find many high minutes guys who are doing the opposite. As you and I agreed under Patrick Ewing, the buck stops at the head coach’s desk. He didn’t put his team in a position to have some measure of success (or not be a debacle) and he gave himself an F for his first year here. Why not believe him? All the evidence points to it. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s possible both for Cooley to have an F for his first year, while also recognizing that not every single thing that happened this year was directly related to something he did (like missing free throws). Agree to disagree. The buck (this back&forth) stops... with this post.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Mar 14, 2024 11:56:14 GMT -5
Can't help thinking how differently this thread would read if we had hit more of those free throws. I am sure that there would be a whole different tone if we shot as well as Providence from the FT line. Us: 4-19. Prov: 14-18. Let's say we both shot 78% from the FT line. That gives us 10 more points and makes the final score difference just 8 points, 74-66. Maybe that changes the last 3-4 minutes. They play more urgently, we play more urgently, whatever. But we don't lose by 18 with a FT percentage in the 200's to freaking Providence. (Can push it further and say we go 100% from the line, and then we're only down by 3, a one-possession game.)
A loss is still a loss, but it would be single digits, tying the 8 point difference from our first game, not the worst difference in all 3 games against the Fryers. The way we went out is so dispiriting and mostly b/c of the missed FTs. We had some lapses on defense, of course, but we also had a couple of stretches where we made hard-nosed stops and just couldn't convert on the offensive end. There were moments where improvement was evident (overall ball movement, helping out, sporadic defensive toughness, energy and hustle) as well as too many moments that made us want to scream. I just know I would feel a lot better if we did better in losing at the one thing that is entirely in our control and at which we are usually much better.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 14, 2024 12:49:20 GMT -5
Can't help thinking how differently this thread would read if we had hit more of those free throws. I am sure that there would be a whole different tone if we shot as well as Providence from the FT line. Us: 4-19. Prov: 14-18. Let's say we both shot 78% from the FT line. That gives us 10 more points and makes the final score difference just 8 points, 74-66. Maybe that changes the last 3-4 minutes. They play more urgently, we play more urgently, whatever. But we don't lose by 18 with a FT percentage in the 200's to freaking Providence. (Can push it further and say we go 100% from the line, and then we're only down by 3, a one-possession game.) A loss is still a loss, but it would be single digits, tying the 8 point difference from our first game, not the worst difference in all 3 games against the Fryers. The way we went out is so dispiriting and mostly b/c of the missed FTs. We had some lapses on defense, of course, but we also had a couple of stretches where we made hard-nosed stops and just couldn't convert on the offensive end. There were moments where improvement was evident (overall ball movement, helping out, sporadic defensive toughness, energy and hustle) as well as too many moments that made us want to scream. I just know I would feel a lot better if we did better in losing at the one thing that is entirely in our control and at which we are usually much better. Our defense last night was not great, but it was substantially better than it had been in the conference season in at least one way. A few stats: - The big improvement was at the rim. Last night, Providence shot only 11/20 (or 55%) at the rim. If we did that over the course of he whole season, we'd be 96th percentile. Almost elite level. In contrast, our season average is 70.9, worst in the country. Why were we better? Part of it may be the small sample, but I think a substantial part of it is that Cooley relied a lot more heavily on Fielder, who is a much better defender than Cook. Fielder definitely improved over the course of the season, and is a substantially better defender than Cook. - Cooley clealy realized at the end of the year that Massoud was a huge liability because his minutes shrunk substantially. After having a number of games with 20+ or even 30+ minutes, Massoud's minutes in the last five games were 7 last night, and 16, 15, 13, and 11. Cooley clearly realized Massoud stunk and stopped playing him. It's encouraging. One Note: There have been a bunch of rumors about Fielder's knees. I believe Cooley recently mentioned it. If it's true that Fielder's playing time was affected by knee problems for part of the season, that would be a very logical reason for why Massoud got so many minutes over Fielder even while it was obvious Massoud wasn't contributing. I, and others, commented earlier this season about how it didn't make sense. If Fielder couldn't play big minutes because of injury, that's one explanation. Another is that Fielder fouled a ton (but was better in the lat couple of games) so that limited his time, too. This is what is encouraging to me. Whereas with Ewing, you often got the sense that he had no clue what he was doing, if you pay close enough attention, you could see Cooley was constantly trying different things (most of which did not work, but he tried). And I do think it's encouraging Fielder got better during the season. An ABSOLUTE key is that Cook cannot play big minutes next year because he is such a defensive liability. Cook is a great guy to have on the bench, and to sub in for offense/out for defense at the end of a game because he's a great offensive rebounder. But he simply cannot play big defensive minutes. He has very poor mobility and instincts. Last night, for example, he rotated out of the way of a few plays and did not help. This has been a consistent problem all year. But I clearly watched everyone else--everyone else was trying to help. I just think Cook might just not have great instincts on defense. Which is fine. He seems like a great kid, and I'd like him to be on our team next year, but he simply needs a new role.
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