Future of Capital One Arena Discussion

[DanMcQ]

[hoyajmw]

Dec 13, 2023 21:55:04 GMT -5 astrohoya said:

Dec 13, 2023 21:40:59 GMT -5 happyhoya1979 said:

I, for one, will not support and will not attend the future games of the Alexandria Ovechkins (nee Washington Capitals) and Northern Virginia Lululemons (nee Washington Wizards nee Washington Bullets) after 2027.

Monumental Sports has to keep the arena and Georgetown Basketball with it since the cultural and economic impact to downtown DC will be too great and optically very bad both for Mounmental and the Leagues involved (NHL and NBA).

You realize the Zephyrs/Bullets/Wizards have played outside of DC for most of their existence? They have no specific allegiance to any part of the metro area they represent. This move will be good for certain residents and bad for certain residents. It’s not like they are a Houston team moving to Tennessee (combined with my screen name you know where I grew up.).

Fun fact for those who don’t know (which is most people in the DMV I’ve found, but looks like you likely do, astrohoya): franchise that is now the Wizards started in early 60s in Chicago as the Packers (for the meatpacking district) and then changed their name to the Zephyrs after one year because no one in Chicago could root for a team named Packers. Moved after two years to Baltimore when bought by a Baltimore businessman (Pollin bought them from him) and became the Bullets. Uniforms of franchise history on display at Cap One on concourse near sections 100-111.

[SSHoya]

My father beamed as we waited in line for the first Wizards game at MCI Center. “This is so great for the city,” he told me.

Dad and I shared a passion for sports and had loved going to Bullets games at Capital Centre in Landover. But the commute was hard with his work hours and my bedtime, and a new arena meant more games and more quality time in a part of the District that was getting back to its illustrious past — being the heartbeat of the nation’s capital.

It was the best version of Washington in my lifetime. It was Abe Pollin’s vision of what a downtown arena could do, come to life.

www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/12/15/capital-one-arena-history-wizards-capitals/

[astrohoya]

Dec 14, 2023 14:23:32 GMT -5 Problem of Dog said:

Dec 13, 2023 20:38:29 GMT -5 astrohoya said:

- The decline if the neighborhood is very real. I walked to the game from Foggy Bottom last night and it definitely got bad about two blocks from Cap One. The bigger issue here, which goes well beyond this, is that the federal government since COVID has embraced remote work pretty intensely. Simply put, fewer people are going to be in Downtown DC going forward, and it is going to negatively affect the city. I think this is a secondary issue to the entertainment district for the Wiz/Caps, but it is a real issue that will continue to get worse regardless of what they do.

I'm sorry but give me an F-ing break. "it definitely got bad about two blocks from Cap One" What does that even mean? Were you mugged the moment you got two blocks away? Or did you just see too many black people out at night?

This move has absolutely nothing to do with crime or taxes or anything else. It's a cash grab by a billionaire who once put his face alongside MLK to promote his community activism, which is exclusively opportunistic and minimal.

Really do not appreciate you throwing the racism accusation around much. It’s pretty disingenuous considering you don’t know who or what race I am. To be specific, what I meant was the activity level dropped rather noticeably. More empty buildings, less commercial activity, and more smell of weed. The Gallery Place Metro station in particular was filled with loiterers and the smell of urine and weed. And while I was not the victim of crime on Tuesday, crime numbers in the area are substantially up in the last five years. It is simply not a vibrant area compared to what it used to be or compared to other areas.

That said, I was actually very clear in the totality of my post that I completely agree with you that this is a money grab that DC cannot match and it has nothing to do with the neighborhood or the possibility of improving Cap One. The main concern of the area to me has nothing to do with the Caps/Wiz, but with the future viability of the site to host Georgetown, particularly given the expectation (not just by me), that the area will continue to decline.

[guru]

Dec 15, 2023 6:38:03 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

My father beamed as we waited in line for the first Wizards game at MCI Center. “This is so great for the city,” he told me.

Dad and I shared a passion for sports and had loved going to Bullets games at Capital Centre in Landover. But the commute was hard with his work hours and my bedtime, and a new arena meant more games and more quality time in a part of the District that was getting back to its illustrious past — being the heartbeat of the nation’s capital.

It was the best version of Washington in my lifetime. It was Abe Pollin’s vision of what a downtown arena could do, come to life.

www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/12/15/capital-one-arena-history-wizards-capitals/

The fewer Luke Russert links, the better.

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Dec 15, 2023 10:13:09 GMT -5 astrohoya said:

Dec 14, 2023 14:23:32 GMT -5 Problem of Dog said:

I'm sorry but give me an F-ing break. "it definitely got bad about two blocks from Cap One" What does that even mean? Were you mugged the moment you got two blocks away? Or did you just see too many black people out at night?

This move has absolutely nothing to do with crime or taxes or anything else. It's a cash grab by a billionaire who once put his face alongside MLK to promote his community activism, which is exclusively opportunistic and minimal.

Really do not appreciate you throwing the racism accusation around much. It’s pretty disingenuous considering you don’t know who or what race I am. To be specific, what I meant was the activity level dropped rather noticeably. More empty buildings, less commercial activity, and more smell of weed. The Gallery Place Metro station in particular was filled with loiterers and the smell of urine and weed. And while I was not the victim of crime on Tuesday, crime numbers in the area are substantially up in the last five years. It is simply not a vibrant area compared to what it used to be or compared to other areas.

That said, I was actually very clear in the totality of my post that I completely agree with you that this is a money grab that DC cannot match and it has nothing to do with the neighborhood or the possibility of improving Cap One. The main concern of the area to me has nothing to do with the Caps/Wiz, but with the future viability of the site to host Georgetown, particularly given the expectation (not just by me), that the area will continue to decline.

You do know weed is legal right? The smell of it shouldn't come as a surprise and I don't think of really high people as being a major problem. As laws have changed, that's like saying there were a bunch of really intoxicated people in the bars and just outside on the streets there was the stench of alcohol so now the neighborhood isn't safe. It is quieter because of less office activity and I do know a restaurant owner in the area and they are relying solely on weekend dinners as their lunch & mid-week dinner crowd has dried up. That is the biggest issue here.

If Ted takes his teams to NoVa, I don't want to see any parades on the mall ever again (not that this would be an issue for the Wiz for the next decade likely). It's a money grab and I frankly expect DC to capitulate and for NoVa residents to fight it.

[SSHoya]

Dec 15, 2023 11:51:04 GMT -5 guru said:

Dec 15, 2023 6:38:03 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

My father beamed as we waited in line for the first Wizards game at MCI Center. “This is so great for the city,” he told me.

Dad and I shared a passion for sports and had loved going to Bullets games at Capital Centre in Landover. But the commute was hard with his work hours and my bedtime, and a new arena meant more games and more quality time in a part of the District that was getting back to its illustrious past — being the heartbeat of the nation’s capital.

It was the best version of Washington in my lifetime. It was Abe Pollin’s vision of what a downtown arena could do, come to life.

www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/12/15/capital-one-arena-history-wizards-capitals/

The fewer Luke Russert links, the better.

Next thing you know it I'm posting links to Feinstein!😀

[drquigley]

Dec 15, 2023 12:12:36 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

Dec 15, 2023 11:51:04 GMT -5 guru said:

The fewer Luke Russert links, the better.

Next thing you know it I'm posting links to Feinstein!😀

You guys must be kidding. A beautiful article. Captures the essence of what a sports arena can mean to a city. For someone who grew up going to the old MSG the article brought back memories of me and my older brother catching Ranger and Knicks games and always getting a hot dog and lemon drink at the Nedicks out front. Plus, if the circus had been in town the tunnels leading into the arena stunk of elephants.

[guru]

Just heard an interview with (now monumental sports exec) JT3 on local DC sports radio and - hand to God - there was not even a single mention of Georgetown basketball and its fate with this move. Really terrible job by the interviewer.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Dec 15, 2023 11:55:03 GMT -5 ColumbiaHeightsHoya said:

Dec 15, 2023 10:13:09 GMT -5 astrohoya said:

Really do not appreciate you throwing the racism accusation around much. It’s pretty disingenuous considering you don’t know who or what race I am. To be specific, what I meant was the activity level dropped rather noticeably. More empty buildings, less commercial activity, and more smell of weed. The Gallery Place Metro station in particular was filled with loiterers and the smell of urine and weed. And while I was not the victim of crime on Tuesday, crime numbers in the area are substantially up in the last five years. It is simply not a vibrant area compared to what it used to be or compared to other areas.

That said, I was actually very clear in the totality of my post that I completely agree with you that this is a money grab that DC cannot match and it has nothing to do with the neighborhood or the possibility of improving Cap One. The main concern of the area to me has nothing to do with the Caps/Wiz, but with the future viability of the site to host Georgetown, particularly given the expectation (not just by me), that the area will continue to decline.

You do know weed is legal right? The smell of it shouldn't come as a surprise and I don't think of really high people as being a major problem. As laws have changed, that's like saying there were a bunch of really intoxicated people in the bars and just outside on the streets there was the stench of alcohol so now the neighborhood isn't safe. It is quieter because of less office activity and I do know a restaurant owner in the area and they are relying solely on weekend dinners as their lunch & mid-week dinner crowd has dried up. That is the biggest issue here.

If Ted takes his teams to NoVa, I don't want to see any parades on the mall ever again (not that this would be an issue for the Wiz for the next decade likely). It's a money grab and I frankly expect DC to capitulate and for NoVa residents to fight it.

It is legal, but it is also still illegal to smoke or consume marijuana on public space (parks, streets, alleys, sidewalks) or anywhere to which the public is invited. I haven't been to DC in a couple of years, so I'll refrain on commenting about that and leave it to others, but the poster above described loiterers and the smell of urine and weed. Even if weed is legal, that doesn't exactly paint an enticing picture.

You are correct in that the main problem for restaurants and businesses in the area is remote working and fewer people there during the week. Cities and downtowns across the country, including New York, DC, San Francisco, etc., are dealing with that. But, it's not helpful to draw people to an arena anywhere when you need to walk through streets that smell like urine, or dodge tents that are on the sidewalk. Would that prevent me from going to a Hoyas game? No. Would it prevent more casual fans or people less comfortable in a city? Absolutely.

[astrohoya]

Of course I know that weed is legal. So is drinking out of a bag on the streets, but you don’t see that as much in dynamic areas. So, I do disagree with you on how people interpret that smell. My personal hatred of the smell is not relevant, but I don’t think the smell of it is one that is going to attract a lot of commercial activity. The overwhelming smell in the Gallery Place Metro station was pretty instructive in that regard….a lot of people are not going to smell and think “this is where I want to hang out”.

You are 100% right in ascribing the neighborhood’s issues to a lack of people, especially lack of workers. That is a macro trend that goes well beyond this discussion and has no easy solutions.

[hoyaboya]

Dec 15, 2023 12:39:23 GMT -5 guru said:

Just heard an interview with (now monumental sports exec) JT3 on local DC sports radio and - hand to God - there was not even a single mention of Georgetown basketball and its fate with this move. Really terrible job by the interviewer.

Maybe the interviewer was instructed NOT to ask about Georgetown?

It raises an interesting dynamic, though. JT3 is obviously a trusted insider with Leonsis. We know that Ronny was (rightfully) kicked to the curb once Cooley was hired. Could the Thompsons have any backroom pull with Leonsis that would impact his perception of Georgetown?

[seaweed]

Dec 15, 2023 13:24:18 GMT -5 astrohoya said:

Of course I know that weed is legal. So is drinking out of a bag on the streets, but you don’t see that as much in dynamic areas. So, I do disagree with you on how people interpret that smell. My personal hatred of the smell is not relevant, but I don’t think the smell of it is one that is going to attract a lot of commercial activity. The overwhelming smell in the Gallery Place Metro station was pretty instructive in that regard….a lot of people are not going to smell and think “this is where I want to hang out”.

You are 100% right in ascribing the neighborhood’s issues to a lack of people, especially lack of workers. That is a macro trend that goes well beyond this discussion and has no easy solutions.

Pretty much everyone I know thinks “this is where I want to hang out“ when they smell that smell

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Dec 15, 2023 13:24:18 GMT -5 astrohoya said:

Of course I know that weed is legal. So is drinking out of a bag on the streets, but you don’t see that as much in dynamic areas. So, I do disagree with you on how people interpret that smell. My personal hatred of the smell is not relevant, but I don’t think the smell of it is one that is going to attract a lot of commercial activity. The overwhelming smell in the Gallery Place Metro station was pretty instructive in that regard….a lot of people are not going to smell and think “this is where I want to hang out”.

You are 100% right in ascribing the neighborhood’s issues to a lack of people, especially lack of workers. That is a macro trend that goes well beyond this discussion and has no easy solutions.

Astro, hold my purse. My kids have known what that smell was since they were little. As far as urine, meh, that's kind of big city living in a nut shell. DC has moved tent cities out and they pop back up. I don't know of any around Cap One. I do see them thru rock creek park though. You are probably right about the casual fan. I do know that I would much rather go to Cap One then head out to Xfinity center and its traffic and parking set-up or Landover if it still existed or St. E's and the hollowed out buildings or Potomac Yard and it's impending traffic train wreck. Cap One checks all the boxes except its too big and Teddy thinks the rent is too damn high.

[daveg023]

Dec 15, 2023 12:39:23 GMT -5 guru said:

Just heard an interview with (now monumental sports exec) JT3 on local DC sports radio and - hand to God - there was not even a single mention of Georgetown basketball and its fate with this move. Really terrible job by the interviewer.

This says something else:
x.com/bobbybancroft/status/1735758700248289748?s=46https://x.com/bobbybancroft/status/1735758700248289748?s=46

[hoyaboya]

[astrohoya]

Dec 15, 2023 14:54:05 GMT -5 seaweed said:

Dec 15, 2023 13:24:18 GMT -5 astrohoya said:

Of course I know that weed is legal. So is drinking out of a bag on the streets, but you don’t see that as much in dynamic areas. So, I do disagree with you on how people interpret that smell. My personal hatred of the smell is not relevant, but I don’t think the smell of it is one that is going to attract a lot of commercial activity. The overwhelming smell in the Gallery Place Metro station was pretty instructive in that regard….a lot of people are not going to smell and think “this is where I want to hang out”.

You are 100% right in ascribing the neighborhood’s issues to a lack of people, especially lack of workers. That is a macro trend that goes well beyond this discussion and has no easy solutions.

Pretty much everyone I know thinks “this is where I want to be“ when they smell that smell

Well, since smoking won’t be allowed in the arena, not sure that sentiment is going to encourage anybody to come to the games, which is the ultimate issue.

[seaweed]

For sure Astro, nobody ever smokes where they’re not allowed. That’s why it doesn’t smell around Gallery Pla … oh, wait …

I was in town for the TCU game and thought the area looked better than it ever had. Christmas Bazaar, new restaurants and shops, general bustle going on. And parking was harder than it’s ever been, indicating that suburbanites are around patronizing local businesses. I didn’t spend a lot of time checking it out unfortunately but I had to do a bit of a loop to find parking and it sure seemed like people were around enjoying themselves.

None of which matters to us - either Uncle Ted downsizes the joint and it’s perfect for the Hoyas, or he doesn’t. Sounds like III sees it going that way and he probably has better info than all of us combined. Or NoVA falls through and status quo prevails. What’s not going to happen is the Hoyas getting left out in the cold, so all ye wee Chicken Littles can tap that blunt and get ready to treat the Irish like Oliver Cromwell did. Ray Bastard that he was

[astrohoya]

We’ll just have to agree to disagree as to whether the smell of weed helps attendance.

GTown won’t be left in the cold, as you say, because we are presumably still willing to pay rent. That said, we basically have zero control over the matter. Barring us being proactive about seeking better options (not holding my breath). Either Cap One stays open and we play there, or it doesn’t and we move to Alexandria. The decision to keep it open ultimately has almost zero to do with us, and we have no control over it.

I am skeptical Monumental (or anyone else) will find it profitable to continue to operate Cap One, and even more skeptical anybody is going to put money into it. But we’ll see. We are complete price takers in that decision.

[DFW HOYA]

Dec 15, 2023 17:47:21 GMT -5 astrohoya said:

W

GTown won’t be left in the cold, as you say, because we are presumably still willing to pay rent. That said, we basically have zero control over the matter. Barring us being proactive about seeking better options (not holding my breath). Either Cap One stays open and we play there, or it doesn’t and we move to Alexandria. The decision to keep it open ultimately has almost zero to do with us, and we have no control over it.

I am skeptical Monumental (or anyone else) will find it profitable to continue to operate Cap One, and even more skeptical anybody is going to put money into it. But we’ll see. We are complete price takers in that decision.

What happens when Monumental simply decides Georgetown is not worth the investment? This idea of a fait accompli is risky and potentially dangerous because it allows Monumental to exert predatory pricing without a means for Georgetown to address it.

Yes, Abe Pollin stuck it to Georgetown much the same way Ted Leonsis did. But Georgetown could make up the difference in rent at Capital Centre with big crowds and lots of season tickets. That's not happening now and not just because of JT III, Ewing, et al. Today's fan base, whatever size you want to assign to it, isn't buying season tickets and isn't showing up big for games because they can watch it at home or go through the third party ticket broker market, e.g., why pay $20 to GU to see American when it's on Stubhub for $4. A smaller base means less on concessions, less on gameday staff, and actually increases what Monumental needs to charge to make a return on its gameday investment. Madison Square Garden likes sold out crowds at the Big East because everybody wins. They're not taking on Fordham hosting Manhattan at the Garden because nobody does.

It was telling that Ted's big announcement basically consigned the Hoyas and Mystics to the undercard. Unless you plan on seeing Hoyas games at St. Elizabeth's before 2,000 people a game in 2031 (with fans deciding between a pregame meal at the IHOP or Sharks Fish & Chicken), someone better start fighting for downtown, because Ted's not going to be.