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Post by trillesthoya on Dec 13, 2023 13:44:13 GMT -5
I don’t get how it will make sense for Monumental to operate Capital One in perpetuity if the only draws there are the Mystics, Hoyas and B-tier concerts/performances that don’t garner the level of attendance Potomac Yard will. Leonsis has been whining about the costs of thelease on the land for years as it is and now you’re taking away its two biggest rainmakers from the mix. This seems like a temporary option at best and within four or five years of PY being completed they’ll be shuttering.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 13, 2023 13:47:48 GMT -5
I would hope we do whatever it takes to be a tenant in the new building. Being able to sell recruits on playing in "a state-of-the-art NBA arena" is much preferable to telling them they'll play at a WNBA arena in a decaying neighborhood.
The distance/commute complaints from Georgetown's campus I find to be ludicrous. It's not easy to get to the Verizon Center from campus as is. Walking/taking GUTS over the Key Bridge and hopping a quick Metro ride, or taking a Georgetown-provided bus to the arena in Alexandria is no big deal.
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Dec 13, 2023 13:48:15 GMT -5
I think a renovated, smaller Capital One Center would be a major plus, and actually better than what we have today. That said, the allure of playing instead in a shiny new arena, even if it's in Alexandria, may draw. To answer prhoya's question about what will Jack do? My guess is nothing. I think HoyaTalk is much more concerned about this than Jack and most people involved in the program. By the time the new arena opens, will Jack even be the President anymore? PS. Having a WNBA team play in an NBA arena is not a big deal. The NY Liberty have played in either MSG, Prudential Center, or Barclays for most of their existence. Of course it's not a "big deal"...but there's a reason why they moved in the first place. Mystics games looked like Hoyas games of recent and that wasn't a great optic for a professional league. They were practically giving Mystics tickets away. They pack out about 90% of their current venue which is a much better visual and atmosphere. |
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Dec 13, 2023 13:52:03 GMT -5
If this really were to happen, and is executed well (e.g. not just as an afterthought), it would certainly benefit GU. I assume Hoyas would need to find a temporary home during the renovation/downsizing though. Maybe not. It’s possible to do it in the offseason. Or do it like MSG, which somehow stayed open throughout? I guess it depends on how extensive the renovations would be. I'd think that to truly downsize the space while still keeping it updated and high end, there would need to be some structural changes like moving walls, ceilings, seating, etc. That might mean a full closure for some period. I suppose this could be done in a way which would not necessitate a lengthy closure, but I'm not sure. What I fear could happen is that the renovation is simply to put a curtain around the top level, some other minor superficial fixes, and the rest of the arena left to rot. That wouldn't benefit GU, and in all likelihood would just mean that the arena would be torn down at a later date. I think GU needs to be very proactive right now. Get into talks with Monumental/Leonsis so that GU is directly a part of the planning. Maybe see if a deal could be had whereby GU covers a portion of the renovation costs in exchange for nominal rent and/or a better take on concessions. As I see it, an arrangement like this is much more realistic than the dream of a brand new arena in Rosslyn (which likely isn't under serious consideration anyways). |
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Dec 13, 2023 13:52:10 GMT -5
I don’t get how it will make sense for Monumental to operate Capital One in perpetuity if the only draws there are the Mystics, Hoyas and B-tier concerts/performances that don’t garner the level of attendance Potomac Yard will. Leonsis has been whining about the costs of thelease on the land for years as it is and now you’re taking away its two biggest rainmakers from the mix. This seems like a temporary option at best and within four or five years of PY being completed they’ll be shuttering. I'm in agreement. It's a nice idea but it's not feasible long term. I see no reason why the same acts that would book Capital One wouldn't book this new arena when it's done...so how much shelf life does that building really have left? |
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 13, 2023 14:00:22 GMT -5
Maybe not. It’s possible to do it in the offseason. Or do it like MSG, which somehow stayed open throughout? What I fear could happen is that the renovation is simply to put a curtain around the top level, some other minor superficial fixes, and the rest of the arena left to rot. That wouldn't benefit GU, and in all likelihood would just mean that the arena would be torn down at a later date.. 100 percent. I do think a renovation that takes that upper portion and separates it from arena, turning it into retail/entertainment/dining - something like that could work and would be pretty great. But it seems like if DC wanted/could do a deal for something like that, it would have just done the deal with the Wiz and Caps. So who knows? But yes - just a partitioned off upper deck would be ghastly. Isn't that what DePaul did for years before they got their new place? Yikes - the DePaul rotting comparisons just keep working. Sad. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 13, 2023 14:03:32 GMT -5
I don’t get how it will make sense for Monumental to operate Capital One in perpetuity if the only draws there are the Mystics, Hoyas and B-tier concerts/performances that don’t garner the level of attendance Potomac Yard will. Leonsis has been whining about the costs of thelease on the land for years as it is and now you’re taking away its two biggest rainmakers from the mix. This seems like a temporary option at best and within four or five years of PY being completed they’ll be shuttering. I'm in agreement. It's a nice idea but it's not feasible long term. I see no reason why the same acts that would book Capital One wouldn't book this new arena when it's done...so how much shelf life does that building really have left? There are many, many acts that would book a 10-14k seat arena that wouldn't book a 20k seat arena. It's how the Anthem has been such a hit at the Wharf. So putting events in the downsized arena wouldn't be a problem. |
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Dec 13, 2023 14:12:26 GMT -5
I'm in agreement. It's a nice idea but it's not feasible long term. I see no reason why the same acts that would book Capital One wouldn't book this new arena when it's done...so how much shelf life does that building really have left? There are many, many acts that would book a 10-14k seat arena that wouldn't book a 20k seat arena. It's how the Anthem has been such a hit at the Wharf. So putting events in the downsized arena wouldn't be a problem. Yeah but are less acts going to book at The Anthem and all of the other similar venues? in the area? I think my question is really...is another concert venue really a viable long term solution in that particular spot. I know what those streets were like before MCI Center/Verizon Center/Capital One was there. That building transformed that entire neighborhood and it's sports teams were at the epicenter of that. I'm not sure an Anthem-competitor + Mystics + Hoyas can anchor in a post-pandemic decline. |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 13, 2023 14:20:54 GMT -5
Has there been anything definitive saying Georgetown WON'T be playing at the new arena? If not, why are people getting their panties in a bunch? Why wouldn't we just have the same arrangement with the new arena as we have had with the Verizon Center?
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Dec 13, 2023 15:01:37 GMT -5
The press release says future events to include—“ collegiate competitions (NCAA Men’s and Women’s tournaments, conference play, etc.)” I assume Leonsos can’t say Hoyas will be a part of this because the discussion hs not yet happened. He can say specifically reference the mystics because it’s his team. But not sure what other college’s “conference” games he would envision being played there. Still not sure this will actually happen. Could just be a face saving throw away line later to be forgotten. If GU is interested in this, it needs to move fast to secure it. If the dust settles and Hoyas end up playing in a downsized downtown arena that has been upgraded and still hosts WNBA games and concerts/events with an 8-10k capacity, that’s maybe a best case scenario out of all possibilities for Georgetown, correct? It would be perfect for most GU games. But what about UCONN and maybe some big OOC games like Syracuse/Duke/ND/Maryland etc? And while we are transitioning let's go all the way and schedule low attendance cupcakes at McDonough (with possibly a slight renovation adding 500-1,000 seats). |
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Post by hoya8185 on Dec 13, 2023 15:30:26 GMT -5
Barry Svrluga-Wash Post Monica Dixon, Monumental's president of external affairs and chief administrative officer, told me in an interview late this morning that MSE believes it can fill at least 100 dates annually at Capital One Arena. The plan would be to continue to host Georgetown men's basketball games, move the Mystics from the Entertainment and Sports Arena in Southeast, and line up both concerts and conventions. One point Dixon made is that because Capital One Arena has to hold dates for the Capitals and the Wizards -- and those schedules don't get released until very late -- they actually have to block off more nights than they end up using. The fallout is they can't book things two years in advance. Now they'll be able to. But the arena is currently booked for roughly 200 nights a year, so even if they get to more than 100, that's potentially a huge dropoff. www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/12/13/capitals-wizards-virginia/ |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 13, 2023 16:04:42 GMT -5
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 13, 2023 16:30:35 GMT -5
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 13, 2023 17:21:18 GMT -5
If the dust settles and Hoyas end up playing in a downsized downtown arena that has been upgraded and still hosts WNBA games and concerts/events with an 8-10k capacity, that’s maybe a best case scenario out of all possibilities for Georgetown, correct? It would be perfect for most GU games. But what about UCONN and maybe some big OOC games like Syracuse/Duke/ND/Maryland etc? And while we are transitioning let's go all the way and schedule low attendance cupcakes at McDonough (with possibly a slight renovation adding 500-1,000 seats). Then you bang the building out for those games, the place is rocking, and best case scenario you create a scarcity of tickets for these games, which also helps create a big game atmosphere. You also put a larger percentage of tickets into the hands of fans who will actually root for the home team. The past decade all of our biggest crowds have been at least 65 percent away fans anyway. But honestly, we are so far away from having to worry about our crowds being too big, aren't we? |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 13, 2023 17:43:11 GMT -5
On PTI Kornheiser called the possible move "villainy" and mentioned Leonsis as a Georgetown grad majes it worse. Says he's driven a stake through the heart of DC.
Wilbon outraged! Can't believe DC and Leonsis can't bridge the gap between $500m and $600m. Suggested it's not a done deal yet but not bases upon any reporting.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 13, 2023 18:46:36 GMT -5
On PTI Kornheiser called the possible move "villainy" and mentioned Leonsis as a Georgetown grad majes it worse. Says he's driven a stake through the heart of DC. Wilbon outraged! Can't believe DC and Leonsis can't bridge the gap between $500m and $600m. Suggested it's not a done deal yet but not bases upon any reporting. The opener: Wilbon: "Tony, have you heard your Capitals and Wizards might be moving out of Washington?" Kornheiser: "If that happens, I'm not going out to the games anymore." Wilbon: "Tony, you haven't gone to a game in 15 years." Kornheiser: "Yeah, that's about right." On a serious note, Mike Wilbon is a bit out of touch on this, as he claims he only learned of this last night, and suggests it may be a negotiating tool. Tony is not convinced and if someone has a clip with his complete comments today, please post them here. Yes, he's a bit of a recluse of late, but he can write and he hit the ball out of the park with that one. |
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hoyajmw
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Post by hoyajmw on Dec 13, 2023 18:47:21 GMT -5
On PTI Kornheiser called the possible move "villainy" and mentioned Leonsis as a Georgetown grad majes it worse. Says he's driven a stake through the heart of DC. Wilbon outraged! Can't believe DC and Leonsis can't bridge the gap between $500m and $600m. Suggested it's not a done deal yet but not bases upon any reporting. Thanks for watching PTI so I don’t have to… |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 13, 2023 19:03:04 GMT -5
On PTI Kornheiser called the possible move "villainy" and mentioned Leonsis as a Georgetown grad majes it worse. Says he's driven a stake through the heart of DC. Wilbon outraged! Can't believe DC and Leonsis can't bridge the gap between $500m and $600m. Suggested it's not a done deal yet but not bases upon any reporting. The opener: Wilbon: "Tony, have you heard your Capitals and Wizards might be moving out of Washington?" Kornheiser: "If that happens, I'm not going out to the games anymore." Wilbon: "Tony, you haven't gone to a game in 15 years." Kornheiser: "Yeah, that's about right." On a serious note, Mike Wilbon is a bit out of touch on this, as he claims he only learned of this last night, and suggests it may be a negotiating tool. Tony is not convinced and if someone has a clip with his complete comments today, please post them here. Yes, he's a bit of a recluse of late, but he can write and he hit the ball out of the park with that one. I don't get the impression he's really much in touch with the DMV as he used to be because he spends so much time in AZ and on the road. |
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astrohoya
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Post by astrohoya on Dec 13, 2023 20:38:29 GMT -5
- The Wiz/Caps are going to go to Virginia because the real money here is in the “entertainment district” that will be built in Potomac Yard. The Braves basically perfected this with the Battery around Truist Park. Having recently spent some time in Atlanta and been out there, it is very easy to see how the Braves make way more money off that then they ever could have made no matter what renovations were done to downtown Atlanta. Same thing here.
- The decline if the neighborhood is very real. I walked to the game from Foggy Bottom last night and it definitely got bad about two blocks from Cap One. The bigger issue here, which goes well beyond this, is that the federal government since COVID has embraced remote work pretty intensely. Simply put, fewer people are going to be in Downtown DC going forward, and it is going to negatively affect the city. I think this is a secondary issue to the entertainment district for the Wiz/Caps, but it is a real issue that will continue to get worse regardless of what they do.
- Since 1981, GTown has basically been hostage to other entities did a venue. I am assuming this will continue. I don’t think it should, but more on that in a bit.
- Assuming it does, distance from campus. Cap One, less than ideal as it is, is miles better than Landover. The Potomac Yard would be better than Landover, but a clear step down from Cap One. Student attendance is important, both for atmosphere and in developing future fans/support. Because campus is a hike to any Metro, and the Metro itself continues to retrench and cut its budget, getting out of Georgetown is generally a chore for students. Cap One is at least a reasonable taxi ride. Potomac Yard, not so much. The bus drive is also a lot longer, and these things matter. So if GTown had to move to Potomac Yards, it would be a bad thing overall (full disclosure, it would be great for me).
- If Monumental continues to operate Cap One, that would be better. It could even be a positive if Cap One was seriously renovated to create a smaller venue. Even lowering the ceiling and cutting out the fourth deck would be huge. That said, I am skeptical any real money will be spent making Cap One better if the Wiz/Caps leave, and the neighborhood issues are just going to continue to get worse. In short, while staying is neutral, and potentially better, I am skeptical of this as a long term option. If Cap One closed as of now I am guessing Potomac Yard would be the only option.
- GTown has a long history of making poor decisions regarding land and facilities, so I don’t expect anything different now. But this would be the time for Georgetown to really undertake a systematic study of all possible options. The ideal of course would be an 8-12K purpose built arena on or near campus. I am not unfamiliar with the obstacles to that, from lack of funds to the limited space on campus to the opposition of the wealthy neighbors who act shocked that a 235 year old university is located in the area. I don’t know if the Key Bridge Marriott site is realistic, but now is the time to investigate that. Even if we can pull off a modest expansion of McDonough to 6K, that would be a huge improvement for crappy OOC games and be used to develop student support.
In summary, I really would just like to see the university be proactive in this. I am not optimistic.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 13, 2023 20:42:34 GMT -5
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