EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 6, 2024 9:02:08 GMT -5
I'll keep repeating the same point, if the perimeter defenders guarded the ball & switched better there would be fewer paint touches which would mean fewer opportunities at the rim. His defense is bad, no doubt about it but he's not the biggest problem He is not the only problem, but he is one of the biggest. His block percentage over 4 years. 2.1 2.0 1.7 1.1 He has the 5th highest block % on the team…even after Massoud. Here is Oduro’s as a reference (Note Oduro has the same listed height, more width, and likely less vertical) 2.7 1.9 3.3 1.8 2.8 As another reference, Epps has a block percentage of .6 We need so much more from him or a center in general defensively. Doesn't block% correlate with playing time? If so why are you using that stat? According to sport reference Cook's block% are 3.7, 3.3, 2.8 & 2.0 this season. Cook's poor play defensively isn't any more important than Epps or Heath's poor play, as the coach states after every game the team doesn't have any connectivity defensively. Right before the Carter backdoor cut & dunk in the 2nd half, you'll see Bristol call out to Rowan to move in the paint, he even points. Rowan doesn't move, the play happens and Bristol's staring him down with a frustrated look. That's Gtown's defense this season www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/supreme-cook-1.html
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Post by dariantownesvanzandt on Mar 6, 2024 9:16:34 GMT -5
Height (+ length) & effective defense is the correlation. Blocks are also a byproduct of height, but don't have the same connection.
You can have smaller defenders that block more shots than an average guy their size, but it's probably better to have a 7-footer who might not.
Cook suffers from both, so it's not much of a discussion here. As we've seen throughout the year, he's no more than a part-timer at the 5 at this level.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 6, 2024 11:02:16 GMT -5
He is not the only problem, but he is one of the biggest. His block percentage over 4 years. 2.1 2.0 1.7 1.1 He has the 5th highest block % on the team…even after Massoud. Here is Oduro’s as a reference (Note Oduro has the same listed height, more width, and likely less vertical) 2.7 1.9 3.3 1.8 2.8 As another reference, Epps has a block percentage of .6 We need so much more from him or a center in general defensively. Doesn't block% correlate with playing time? If so why are you using that stat? According to sport reference Cook's block% are 3.7, 3.3, 2.8 & 2.0 this season. Cook's poor play defensively isn't any more important than Epps or Heath's poor play, as the coach states after every game the team doesn't have any connectivity defensively. Right before the Carter backdoor cut & dunk in the 2nd half, you'll see Bristol call out to Rowan to move in the paint, he even points. Rowan doesn't move, the play happens and Bristol's staring him down with a frustrated look. That's Gtown's defense this season www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/supreme-cook-1.htmlI used the per 100 possessions stat so I think I have accounted for playing time to answer your point. The defense overall is poor as you call out, but rim protection forgives some of those sins. No rim protection, no sins forgiven.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 6, 2024 11:16:39 GMT -5
Doesn't block% correlate with playing time? If so why are you using that stat? According to sport reference Cook's block% are 3.7, 3.3, 2.8 & 2.0 this season. Cook's poor play defensively isn't any more important than Epps or Heath's poor play, as the coach states after every game the team doesn't have any connectivity defensively. Right before the Carter backdoor cut & dunk in the 2nd half, you'll see Bristol call out to Rowan to move in the paint, he even points. Rowan doesn't move, the play happens and Bristol's staring him down with a frustrated look. That's Gtown's defense this season www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/supreme-cook-1.htmlI used the per 100 possessions stat so I think I have accounted for playing time to answer your point. The defense overall is poor as you call out, but rim protection forgives some of those sins. No rim protection, no sins forgiven. My bad I was looking at the block % stat under the advanced tab Eric Dixon's per 100 stat is 0.8 How do you account for Nova having a top 15 defense on KP?
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 6, 2024 16:29:28 GMT -5
I used the per 100 possessions stat so I think I have accounted for playing time to answer your point. The defense overall is poor as you call out, but rim protection forgives some of those sins. No rim protection, no sins forgiven. My bad I was looking at the block % stat under the advanced tab Eric Dixon's per 100 stat is 0.8 How do you account for Nova having a top 15 defense on KP? There are multiple ways to get there. As someone who has followed the Hoyas for over 30 years, I am accustomed to having rim protection - frequently from a Hall of Fame player.
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Post by footahh on Mar 6, 2024 17:27:32 GMT -5
Posted this in "State of" but figured it also applied here. A quick rundown as to why you have to be looking to move on from Supreme if you want to fix this team's biggest problem - the defensive side of the ball.
After last night, in which Cook was a -13 in 16 minutes and Fielder was even in 24 minutes, the disparity between the two has widened. Fielder in his last 10 games is a +10 in 123 minutes. Conversely, Cook is a -132 in 271 minutes over that stretch. Cook's AdjDefEff per EvanMiya is a team worst 111.8 - the lowest non Depaul High major mark in the country. Fielder's is a 100.6 ... which is the best mark of a Hoya with 700+ minutes played in 3 years.
Using EvanMiya's website you can find some real glaring stuff. For example, every player on the team defends better with Drew behind them.
Epps' DRtg with Fielder: 104.8 Epps' DRtg with Cook: 121.4
Rowan's DRtg with Fielder: 102.1 Rowan's DRtg with Cook: 115.7
Bristol with Fielder: 98.6 (+19) Bristol with Cook: 119.0 (-81)
Styles with Fielder: 106.9 (-24) Styles with Cook: 117.7 (-131)
Ish with Fielder: 106.8 (-28) Ish with Cook: 120.4 (-137)
It doesn't stop just there. let's think about the reliance we've placed on Rowan and Epps playing together these past 3 weeks (an obviously defensively lacking backcourt)
Rowan + Epps + Fielder: 109.8 ORtg, 102.7 DRtg, +19, 265 possessions Rowan + Epps + Cook: 107.0 ORtg, 121.0 DRtg, -73, 520 possessions
And let's consider our 1-4 lineups getting the most runout at the moment:
Epps/Rowan/Bristol/Styles + Fielder - 85.7 DRtg (49 possessions) Epps/Rowan/Bristol/Styles + Cook - 126.0 DRtg (100 possessions)
Epps/Heath/Bristol/Styles + Fielder - 75.0 DRtg (72 possesions) Epps/Heath/Bristol/Styles + Cook - 120.5 DRtg (219 possessions)
Now I don't know if this is a call for Drew to be a critical part of the future as much as it needs to be a glaring indictment on Cook's ability to defend at this level. If you are going to move forward with smaller backcourts, there needs to be protection behind these guys. Epps had a 93.7 DRtg last year ... he's not an inept defender but in this iteration of the Hoyas, if he gets beat off the bounce it is two points. This team has been able to tread water when just a semblance of rim protection was back there. In this offseason, the center that is brought in must be able to defend at a high level. I'm hoping the rotation shakes out as a transfer + Sorber + Fielder but I fear Drew will feel recruited over and that this staff has developed a soft spot for Cook's motor on the O-boards.
Oh, and Cook's improvement over Drew offensively is almost negligible ... a 107.9 AdjOffEff to Fielder's 106.4
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dense
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Post by dense on Mar 6, 2024 17:52:57 GMT -5
Posted this in "State of" but figured it also applied here. A quick rundown as to why you have to be looking to move on from Supreme if you want to fix this team's biggest problem - the defensive side of the ball. After last night, in which Cook was a -13 in 16 minutes and Fielder was even in 24 minutes, the disparity between the two has widened. Fielder in his last 10 games is a +10 in 123 minutes. Conversely, Cook is a -132 in 271 minutes over that stretch. Cook's AdjDefEff per EvanMiya is a team worst 111.8 - the lowest non Depaul High major mark in the country. Fielder's is a 100.6 ... which is the best mark of a Hoya with 700+ minutes played in 3 years. Using EvanMiya's website you can find some real glaring stuff. For example, every player on the team defends better with Drew behind them. Epps' DRtg with Fielder: 104.8 Epps' DRtg with Cook: 121.4 Rowan's DRtg with Fielder: 102.1 Rowan's DRtg with Cook: 115.7 Bristol with Fielder: 98.6 (+19) Bristol with Cook: 119.0 (-81) Styles with Fielder: 106.9 (-24) Styles with Cook: 117.7 (-131) Ish with Fielder: 106.8 (-28) Ish with Cook: 120.4 (-137) It doesn't stop just there. let's think about the reliance we've placed on Rowan and Epps playing together these past 3 weeks (an obviously defensively lacking backcourt) Rowan + Epps + Fielder: 109.8 ORtg, 102.7 DRtg, +19, 265 possessions Rowan + Epps + Cook: 107.0 ORtg, 121.0 DRtg, -73, 520 possessions And let's consider our 1-4 lineups getting the most runout at the moment: Epps/Rowan/Bristol/Styles + Fielder - 85.7 DRtg (49 possessions) Epps/Rowan/Bristol/Styles + Cook - 126.0 DRtg (100 possessions) Epps/Heath/Bristol/Styles + Fielder - 75.0 DRtg (72 possesions) Epps/Heath/Bristol/Styles + Cook - 120.5 DRtg (219 possessions) Now I don't know if this is a call for Drew to be a critical part of the future as much as it needs to be a glaring indictment on Cook's ability to defend at this level. If you are going to move forward with smaller backcourts, there needs to be protection behind these guys. Epps had a 93.7 DRtg last year ... he's not an inept defender but in this iteration of the Hoyas, if he gets beat off the bounce it is two points. This team has been able to tread water when just a semblance of rim protection was back there. In this offseason, the center that is brought in must be able to defend at a high level. I'm hoping the rotation shakes out as a transfer + Sorber + Fielder but I fear Drew will feel recruited over and that this staff has developed a soft spot for Cook's motor on the O-boards. Oh, and Cook's improvement over Drew offensively is almost negligible ... a 107.9 AdjOffEff to Fielder's 106.4
Thank you for the analytical breakdown but anyone with two eyes can see this. It's not about block percentage. He literally doesn't challenges shots or even try to contest shots from his man even.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 6, 2024 18:11:33 GMT -5
Posted this in "State of" but figured it also applied here. A quick rundown as to why you have to be looking to move on from Supreme if you want to fix this team's biggest problem - the defensive side of the ball. After last night, in which Cook was a -13 in 16 minutes and Fielder was even in 24 minutes, the disparity between the two has widened. Fielder in his last 10 games is a +10 in 123 minutes. Conversely, Cook is a -132 in 271 minutes over that stretch. Cook's AdjDefEff per EvanMiya is a team worst 111.8 - the lowest non Depaul High major mark in the country. Fielder's is a 100.6 ... which is the best mark of a Hoya with 700+ minutes played in 3 years. Using EvanMiya's website you can find some real glaring stuff. For example, every player on the team defends better with Drew behind them. Epps' DRtg with Fielder: 104.8 Epps' DRtg with Cook: 121.4 Rowan's DRtg with Fielder: 102.1 Rowan's DRtg with Cook: 115.7 Bristol with Fielder: 98.6 (+19) Bristol with Cook: 119.0 (-81) Styles with Fielder: 106.9 (-24) Styles with Cook: 117.7 (-131) Ish with Fielder: 106.8 (-28) Ish with Cook: 120.4 (-137) It doesn't stop just there. let's think about the reliance we've placed on Rowan and Epps playing together these past 3 weeks (an obviously defensively lacking backcourt) Rowan + Epps + Fielder: 109.8 ORtg, 102.7 DRtg, +19, 265 possessions Rowan + Epps + Cook: 107.0 ORtg, 121.0 DRtg, -73, 520 possessions And let's consider our 1-4 lineups getting the most runout at the moment: Epps/Rowan/Bristol/Styles + Fielder - 85.7 DRtg (49 possessions) Epps/Rowan/Bristol/Styles + Cook - 126.0 DRtg (100 possessions) Epps/Heath/Bristol/Styles + Fielder - 75.0 DRtg (72 possesions) Epps/Heath/Bristol/Styles + Cook - 120.5 DRtg (219 possessions) Now I don't know if this is a call for Drew to be a critical part of the future as much as it needs to be a glaring indictment on Cook's ability to defend at this level. If you are going to move forward with smaller backcourts, there needs to be protection behind these guys. Epps had a 93.7 DRtg last year ... he's not an inept defender but in this iteration of the Hoyas, if he gets beat off the bounce it is two points. This team has been able to tread water when just a semblance of rim protection was back there. In this offseason, the center that is brought in must be able to defend at a high level. I'm hoping the rotation shakes out as a transfer + Sorber + Fielder but I fear Drew will feel recruited over and that this staff has developed a soft spot for Cook's motor on the O-boards. Oh, and Cook's improvement over Drew offensively is almost negligible ... a 107.9 AdjOffEff to Fielder's 106.4
Thank you for the analytical breakdown but anyone with two eyes can see this. It's not about block percentage. He literally doesn't challenges shots or even try to contest shots from his man even. But doesn't this tell us that it's not about "rim protection" or "shot blockers" that you & others keep posting about? footahh what site states Epps had a 93.7 D rating last year? It was 102 on the sports reference site
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dense
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Post by dense on Mar 6, 2024 18:21:08 GMT -5
Thank you for the analytical breakdown but anyone with two eyes can see this. It's not about block percentage. He literally doesn't challenges shots or even try to contest shots from his man even. But doesn't this tell us that it's not about "rim protection" or "shot blockers" that you & others keep posting about? footahh what site states Epps had a 93.7 D rating last year? It was 102 on the sports reference site Yes it does, Drew tries to challenge shots. It contributes to fouls cause he isn't a presence. I'm saying getting rotations correct is one thing to be connected enough to do it mentally and know what everyone else is doing is one factor but having rim protection makes up for that when you aren't connected perfectly.
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Post by footahh on Mar 6, 2024 18:22:27 GMT -5
Thank you for the analytical breakdown but anyone with two eyes can see this. It's not about block percentage. He literally doesn't challenges shots or even try to contest shots from his man even. But doesn't this tell us that it's not about "rim protection" or "shot blockers" that you & others keep posting about? footahh what site states Epps had a 93.7 D rating last year? It was 102 on the sports reference site It tells us whether or not the ball goes in the hoop when that person is on the floor ... which is the objective rather than just blocking shots. The Epps number is on EvanMiya, which adjusts for competition, much like a KenPom number. The raw number may be closer to 100 although I totally disregard the numbers sportsreference provides (I believe they equate ORtg/DRtg directly to plays that person is involved in ending). The Cook raw numbers are staggering as well. The only teammate he has a sub 115 raw DRtg playing alongside is Fielder (who does the rim protection thing for him). His actual raw DRtg is somewhere in the vicinity of 118/119
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Post by bicentennial on Mar 6, 2024 18:45:35 GMT -5
When you watch the games, its clear Cook is not trying to block dribble penetration to the rim but as our starting center he also has not fouled out of games. Fielder has fouled out numerous times in far fewer minutes played. Is it possible that EC does not want Cook to foul out and has told him not to risk fouling out?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 6, 2024 19:02:07 GMT -5
But doesn't this tell us that it's not about "rim protection" or "shot blockers" that you & others keep posting about? footahh what site states Epps had a 93.7 D rating last year? It was 102 on the sports reference site Yes it does, Drew tries to challenge shots. It contributes to fouls cause he isn't a presence. I'm saying getting rotations correct is one thing to be connected enough to do it mentally and know what everyone else is doing is one factor but having rim protection makes up for that when you aren't connected perfectly. Fielder fouls a lot due to being overly aggressive which I think is caused by inexperience I hear you overall, but I wouldn't say I like trading offensive versatility for more blocked shots.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 6, 2024 19:10:41 GMT -5
But doesn't this tell us that it's not about "rim protection" or "shot blockers" that you & others keep posting about? footahh what site states Epps had a 93.7 D rating last year? It was 102 on the sports reference site It tells us whether or not the ball goes in the hoop when that person is on the floor ... which is the objective rather than just blocking shots. The Epps number is on EvanMiya, which adjusts for competition, much like a KenPom number. The raw number may be closer to 100 although I totally disregard the numbers sportsreference provides (I believe they equate ORtg/DRtg directly to plays that person is involved in ending). The Cook raw numbers are staggering as well. The only teammate he has a sub 115 raw DRtg playing alongside is Fielder (who does the rim protection thing for him). His actual raw DRtg is somewhere in the vicinity of 118/119 Thanks! I'll have to check EvanMiya out.
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Post by masterchef on Mar 6, 2024 21:08:52 GMT -5
I'll keep repeating the same point, if the perimeter defenders guarded the ball & switched better there would be fewer paint touches which would mean fewer opportunities at the rim. His defense is bad, no doubt about it but he's not the biggest problem Easier to have an actual deterrent than hoping you never get beat off the dribble. I think at Fairfield they had no size, he had been grilled into not fouling.I'm not sure that's quite it. Fairfield played almost exclusively man-to-man... and it seem to have been taught as "no matter what, you never leave your man!" I can't tell you the number of times that a Fairfield guard would get beat off the dribble on the perimeter... Cook would be covering a forward in the box... and instead of hedging over to offer even a token effort to contest the drive, he'd just keep on covering his man, maybe boxing him out, while the opponent drove in for an uncontested layup. It was maddening to watch as a fan. In my scout back on page 3 - I alluded to some defensive issues. I thought they might get better here. Maybe not? I believe the #1 thing he needs to improve is his FT%. He's been after it for 4 years and hasn't made any progress... so I don't know if he can, but I think that's the key to everything for him offensively. If he's only hitting 57% - you can't really take advantage of his ability to get fouls and get to the line. It becomes even less favorable as you get towards 1 and 1 time. If he could hit them at 75-80% - it's a whole different world.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 6, 2024 21:17:45 GMT -5
Easier to have an actual deterrent than hoping you never get beat off the dribble. I think at Fairfield they had no size, he had been grilled into not fouling.I'm not sure that's quite it. Fairfield played almost exclusively man-to-man... and it seem to have been taught as "no matter what, you never leave your man!" I can't tell you the number of times that a Fairfield guard would get beat off the dribble on the perimeter... Cook would be covering a forward in the box... and instead of hedging over to offer even a token effort to contest the drive, he'd just keep on covering his man, maybe boxing him out, while the opponent drove in for an uncontested layup. It was maddening to watch as a fan. In my scout back on page 3 - I alluded to some defensive issues. I thought they might get better here. Maybe not? I believe the #1 thing he needs to improve is his FT%. He's been after it for 4 years and hasn't made any progress... so I don't know if he can, but I think that's the key to everything for him offensively. If he's only hitting 57% - you can't really take advantage of his ability to get fouls and get to the line. It becomes even less favorable as you get towards 1 and 1 time. If he could hit them at 75-80% - it's a whole different world. Great scout and love the username - who would know more about Supreme Cook than a Master Chef?
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Mar 6, 2024 21:31:08 GMT -5
It just looks bizarre when you see Cook dutifully boxing out his man in the lane while allowing an opposing guard to waltz unchallenged to the basket for the easiest of layups. I can't recall ever seeing any player do this on a consistent basis the way Cook does.
Hearing that he did the same thing at Fairfield - at least that provides some hope that this is much more a Cook issue than a Cooley scheme issue. Plus - Fielder doesn't do this, he comes off his man to challenge shots at the rim - too aggressively and awkwardly at times, producing too many fouls.
It is, however, hard to believe (and concerning) that Cooley has not been able to coach Cook out of this defense-destroying habit. No matter what the other deficiencies are with our defense this season, there is no way to play an effective defense with your center allowing opponents free access to the rim the way Cook so often does.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Mar 6, 2024 21:36:31 GMT -5
When you watch the games, its clear Cook is not trying to block dribble penetration to the rim but as our starting center he also has not fouled out of games. Fielder has fouled out numerous times in far fewer minutes played. Is it possible that EC does not want Cook to foul out and has told him not to risk fouling out? Quite possibly…but it is f****** killing us. We were historically bad as a defense.
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dense
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Post by dense on Mar 6, 2024 22:03:13 GMT -5
Easier to have an actual deterrent than hoping you never get beat off the dribble. I think at Fairfield they had no size, he had been grilled into not fouling.I'm not sure that's quite it. Fairfield played almost exclusively man-to-man... and it seem to have been taught as "no matter what, you never leave your man!" I can't tell you the number of times that a Fairfield guard would get beat off the dribble on the perimeter... Cook would be covering a forward in the box... and instead of hedging over to offer even a token effort to contest the drive, he'd just keep on covering his man, maybe boxing him out, while the opponent drove in for an uncontested layup. It was maddening to watch as a fan. In my scout back on page 3 - I alluded to some defensive issues. I thought they might get better here. Maybe not? I believe the #1 thing he needs to improve is his FT%. He's been after it for 4 years and hasn't made any progress... so I don't know if he can, but I think that's the key to everything for him offensively. If he's only hitting 57% - you can't really take advantage of his ability to get fouls and get to the line. It becomes even less favorable as you get towards 1 and 1 time. If he could hit them at 75-80% - it's a whole different world. Thanks for the intel. So it seems Cooley is having a hard time getting him out of his prior coaching.
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