Thomas
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Post by Thomas on Apr 3, 2023 18:34:47 GMT -5
TCU recently picked up high scoring guard Jameer Nelson Jr.(one of the highest rated players in the transfer portal) from Delaware, his game is somewhat similar to Primo Spears, in terms of being a smaller guard who looks to score more than pass. I'm surprised that Jamie Dixon would go after both guys. As for the other big-name coaches (Bill Self and Musselman) who are going after Primo Spears, I'm assuming they'll be able to reign him in because of the talent on those teams. I don't think Self or Musselman will allow Spears the free reign he had at Duquesne and Georgetown.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Apr 3, 2023 21:08:56 GMT -5
I for one would have loved it if Primo stayed….I bet Cooley could have further developed him.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 4, 2023 8:20:42 GMT -5
TCU recently picked up high scoring guard Jameer Nelson Jr.(one of the highest rated players in the transfer portal) from Delaware, his game is somewhat similar to Primo Spears, in terms of being a smaller guard who looks to score more than pass. I'm surprised that Jamie Dixon would go after both guys. As for the other big-name coaches (Bill Self and Musselman) who are going after Primo Spears, I'm assuming they'll be able to reign him in because of the talent on those teams. I don't think Self or Musselman will allow Spears the free reign he had at Duquesne and Georgetown. It’s a no brainer to go to Kansas if they want him. Although Self will Not tolerate ball dominant one on one play so it’s a very strange choice by Self. It also kind of shows that if you load up individual stats even if the team loses then it can help your brand in the NIL/Portal world which makes it harder for coaches to encourage team play. It almost rewards individual numbers over wins.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 4, 2023 8:27:59 GMT -5
I think Florida State is a better match for Spears. I have a hard time seeing him make the sacrifices he'll have to make to go to Kansas.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Apr 4, 2023 9:52:49 GMT -5
The 2nd UCONN game is all the evidence a coach needs that Primo can be reigned in. I don't think Primo will do that every game but I can see him being less 1v1.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 4, 2023 9:55:46 GMT -5
The 2nd UCONN game is all the evidence a coach needs that Primo can be reigned in. I don't think Primo will do that every game but I can see him being less 1v1. NcDermott and Creighton seemed to figure him out though. Primo’s game wasn’t as good after that game as other teams followed that blueprint to defend him.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Apr 4, 2023 10:14:38 GMT -5
Don't think that this kid is uncontrollable, but rather just someone who needs a coach who will establish some boundaries and enforce them. Recall thinking that both Akinjo and McClung were incredibly selfish and yet both thrived elsewhere, particularly Akinjo. Too many Hoya "stars" were given freedom to play selfish and undisciplined ball. Would not be surprised if both Spears and Murray follow in the footsteps of Akinjo and McClung and become more effective players at their next stop. That said, I think it is best for them and the program that they are moving on.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 4, 2023 10:28:54 GMT -5
Don't think that this kid is uncontrollable, but rather just someone who needs a coach who will establish some boundaries and enforce them. Recall thinking that both Akinjo and McClung were incredibly selfish and yet both thrived elsewhere, particularly Akinjo. Too many Hoya "stars" were given freedom to play selfish and undisciplined ball. Would not be surprised if both Spears and Murray follow in the footsteps of Akinjo and McClung and become more effective players at their next stop. That said, I think it is best for them and the program that they are moving on. Disagree. This is just the whole Ewings fault narrative. Primo was the same player at Duquesne. Mac was pretty much the same at Texas Tech. Improvement with him only really happened after a few years at G league. Akinjo was never a bad player. Incrementally imrpced at both Arizona and Baylor but that probably also would.have happened here. Just more years and experience but still had trouble in ncaa tourney with Arizona And Baylor cause of his athletic limitations
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 4, 2023 11:00:20 GMT -5
Disagree. This is just the whole Ewings fault narrative. Primo was the same player at Duquesne. Mac was pretty much the same at Texas Tech. Improvement with him only really happened after a few years at G league. McClung, WS/40 by year : 2018-2019 (Georgetown) : .075 2019-2020 (Georgetown) : .138 2020-2021 (TT) : .169
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 4, 2023 11:11:49 GMT -5
Don't think that this kid is uncontrollable, but rather just someone who needs a coach who will establish some boundaries and enforce them. Recall thinking that both Akinjo and McClung were incredibly selfish and yet both thrived elsewhere, particularly Akinjo. Too many Hoya "stars" were given freedom to play selfish and undisciplined ball. Would not be surprised if both Spears and Murray follow in the footsteps of Akinjo and McClung and become more effective players at their next stop. That said, I think it is best for them and the program that they are moving on. Disagree. This is just the whole Ewings fault narrative. Primo was the same player at Duquesne. Mac was pretty much the same at Texas Tech. Improvement with him only really happened after a few years at G league. Akinjo was never a bad player. Incrementally imrpced at both Arizona and Baylor but that probably also would.have happened here. Just more years and experience but still had trouble in ncaa tourney with Arizona And Baylor cause of his athletic limitations This takes Patrick Ewing's agency out completely, though. Clearly, Spears has a significant role in the way he played, but if Ewing did not like it, he should have taught him or instructed him to play different. One of two things is true - Ewing let him do it or Ewing instructed him not to do it, Spears did it anyway, and Ewing still played him 37 minutes a game. Either way, Ewing has culpability for failing kids like Spears.
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 4, 2023 11:23:26 GMT -5
Disagree. This is just the whole Ewings fault narrative. Primo was the same player at Duquesne. Mac was pretty much the same at Texas Tech. Improvement with him only really happened after a few years at G league. Akinjo was never a bad player. Incrementally imrpced at both Arizona and Baylor but that probably also would.have happened here. Just more years and experience but still had trouble in ncaa tourney with Arizona And Baylor cause of his athletic limitations This takes Patrick Ewing's agency out completely, though. Clearly, Spears has a significant role in the way he played, but if Ewing did not like it, he should have taught him or instructed him to play different. One of two things is true - Ewing let him do it or Ewing instructed him not to do it, Spears did it anyway, and Ewing still played him 37 minutes a game. Either way, Ewing has culpability for failing kids like Spears. Not really, Ewing can be culpable without blaming everything under the sun on him. It’s pretty obvious that Spears style is ball dominant (10 dribble), score first, pass last mentality that has always been with him. That’s really hard to change. Kyrie Irving has been like that his whole career which is why he couldn’t coexist with LeBron and has had problems at every stop and now with Doncic in Dallas. That was a horrible trade by Cuban which will doom Dalllas for years to come.
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Omega
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Post by Omega on Apr 4, 2023 11:40:35 GMT -5
Disagree. This is just the whole Ewings fault narrative. Primo was the same player at Duquesne. Mac was pretty much the same at Texas Tech. Improvement with him only really happened after a few years at G league. Akinjo was never a bad player. Incrementally imrpced at both Arizona and Baylor but that probably also would.have happened here. Just more years and experience but still had trouble in ncaa tourney with Arizona And Baylor cause of his athletic limitations This takes Patrick Ewing's agency out completely, though. Clearly, Spears has a significant role in the way he played, but if Ewing did not like it, he should have taught him or instructed him to play different. One of two things is true - Ewing let him do it or Ewing instructed him not to do it, Spears did it anyway, and Ewing still played him 37 minutes a game. Either way, Ewing has culpability for failing kids like Spears. Yeah, Coach Ewing should have benched him and replace Primo with who?
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 4, 2023 11:45:33 GMT -5
This takes Patrick Ewing's agency out completely, though. Clearly, Spears has a significant role in the way he played, but if Ewing did not like it, he should have taught him or instructed him to play different. One of two things is true - Ewing let him do it or Ewing instructed him not to do it, Spears did it anyway, and Ewing still played him 37 minutes a game. Either way, Ewing has culpability for failing kids like Spears. Yeah, Coach Ewing should have benched him and replace Primo with who? Bristol, Anglin, or Riley, for like 5-8 minutes a game. I don't understand how this is even an argument - Primo was more efficient at Duquesne when playing 32 minutes then at Georgetown playing 37+. Anyway, we're all looking for the guy who recruited Primo!
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 4, 2023 12:27:49 GMT -5
Don't think that this kid is uncontrollable, but rather just someone who needs a coach who will establish some boundaries and enforce them. Recall thinking that both Akinjo and McClung were incredibly selfish and yet both thrived elsewhere, particularly Akinjo. Too many Hoya "stars" were given freedom to play selfish and undisciplined ball. Would not be surprised if both Spears and Murray follow in the footsteps of Akinjo and McClung and become more effective players at their next stop. That said, I think it is best for them and the program that they are moving on. Akinjo and McClung had similar stats at their new schools. They were pretty much the same player as they were at G-town.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Apr 4, 2023 12:36:46 GMT -5
This takes Patrick Ewing's agency out completely, though. Clearly, Spears has a significant role in the way he played, but if Ewing did not like it, he should have taught him or instructed him to play different. One of two things is true - Ewing let him do it or Ewing instructed him not to do it, Spears did it anyway, and Ewing still played him 37 minutes a game. Either way, Ewing has culpability for failing kids like Spears. Yeah, Coach Ewing should have benched him and replace Primo with who? Very valid point. Had this been limited to Primo I get what you are saying and would think it is just a case of one player who did not want to be coached. However, it is not unique. Brandon Murray, Aminu Mohammed, Dante Harris, Kaiden Rice, J. Blair (who did get benched) and others who had stretches of selfish play and never appeared to be reined in. Ewing complained in how many post-game pressers about lack of sharing the ball and poor shot selection and decision-making? Ewing is gone and I do not want to relive that issue. I think he did his best, gave us a memorable run to the BE title and just did not fit into the college game. However, while the undisciplined play of many recent Hoyas is certainly, in part, on the players, it cannot be just a coincidence that it was a recurring theme for the past several years.
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Apr 4, 2023 13:01:01 GMT -5
Primo may have been the worst defensive guard in the Big East. If you are as poor as he is on defense, you gotta be a star on offense. Instead, he's merely ok. Lots of shots, lots of turnovers, mediocre shooting, etc.
I think you can recognize that Primo has talent, but can you win with a PG that cannot defend anyone and is gonna put up shots 23% of the time?
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Apr 4, 2023 13:17:08 GMT -5
The 2nd UCONN game is all the evidence a coach needs that Primo can be reigned in. I don't think Primo will do that every game but I can see him being less 1v1. NcDermott and Creighton seemed to figure him out though. Primo’s game wasn’t as good after that game as other teams followed that blueprint to defend him. Primo went back to his normal style after the UCONN gm. I believe he said he might as well shoot if we are gonna lose anyway. At the 4 mentioned school the opponent won't be putting their best defender on Primo. He'll be the 3rd option offensively at best at all of those schools. Now on the other end of the court is another story. He'll probably be benched late in close games.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 4, 2023 13:27:16 GMT -5
Yeah, Coach Ewing should have benched him and replace Primo with who? Very valid point. Had this been limited to Primo I get what you are saying and would think it is just a case of one player who did not want to be coached. However, it is not unique. Brandon Murray, Aminu Mohammed, Dante Harris, Kaiden Rice, J. Blair (who did get benched) and others who had stretches of selfish play and never appeared to be reined in. Ewing complained in how many post-game pressers about lack of sharing the ball and poor shot selection and decision-making? Ewing is gone and I do not want to relive that issue. I think he did his best, gave us a memorable run to the BE title and just did not fit into the college game. However, while the undisciplined play of many recent Hoyas is certainly, in part, on the players, it cannot be just a coincidence that it was a recurring theme for the past several years. Was Primo being selfish/ball dominant unique to him? No, but I do think he took it to a higher level than we have seen with the others and beyond what we saw with Aminu, Dante Harris, or Jahvon Blair. I just don't think it's close. It's not just that he was ball dominant--it's that he was ball dominant and took awful long-range two point shots. He was okay at them, but the fact that he continually did that game after game, and Ewing never changed the strategy (or was unable to change it) is a problem. People also act like benching Primo was the only option. You also have practice, etc. You instill a culture of sharing the ball and not being selfish. You force the guys to play differently in practice, and give rewards that way too. And, my feeling is that if Primo was not listening, benching him and not playing him actually would have caused a change in behavior. Kids want to play. Are there some guys who will be ball dominant and just not listen? Of course. And Primo may every well be that guy, but I am pretty confident if he ended up with Kansas, for example, that Bill Self won't let him be ball dominant and take long two point shots all game. While Primo was very ball dominant, his assist rate was 30.1, which was 71st in the country. So, he did share the ball at times (and arguably, a lot). And while I definitely think he could have done better, my bigger beef with Primo was the fact that he insisted on taking horrible shot after horrible shot.
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Apr 4, 2023 13:32:07 GMT -5
This takes Patrick Ewing's agency out completely, though. Clearly, Spears has a significant role in the way he played, but if Ewing did not like it, he should have taught him or instructed him to play different. One of two things is true - Ewing let him do it or Ewing instructed him not to do it, Spears did it anyway, and Ewing still played him 37 minutes a game. Either way, Ewing has culpability for failing kids like Spears. Yeah, Coach Ewing should have benched him and replace Primo with who? At the risk of being blunt, we could not have been much worse with Primo on the bench. Maybe Primo would have adjusted his play with a benching, maybe not. But it sends the wrong message to the rest of the team to do nothing.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 4, 2023 13:33:59 GMT -5
Yeah, Coach Ewing should have benched him and replace Primo with who? At the risk of being blunt, we could not have been much worse with Primo on the bench. Maybe Primo would have adjusted his play with a benching, maybe not. But it sends the wrong message to the rest of the team to do nothing. And again, the question itself is improper. It's not a bilateral choice of (a) benching Primo completely, and (b) playing other people. If you benched him, the goal is to make him play better or adjust his behavior. Most kids will respond to sitting on the bench by changing their play to fit their coach's goals. And, if they don't, you didn't recruit well or you're not a good teacher/motivator.
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