dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Nov 28, 2021 15:20:16 GMT -5
I've finally choked down enough stomach acid after another night at courtside on Friday to add to this 26-page litany of misery. As a politician friend of mine likes to say (and as can be said about this St. Joe's game thread): "everything that needs to be said has been said, but not everyone's said it." In fact, despite the "better" quantitative result, the profound deficiencies in all aspects of the Georgetown game against SDSU were mirrored against St. Joe's on Friday night. While we didn't get killed on the P 'n R's and easy passes into the post against St. Joe's, our utter inability to mount an even passable three-point defense continued to metastasize. You'll be glad to know that Funk set a Wooden Classic record for made three's on Friday night, so we did get into the Tournament record books. We continue to be the team that couldn't pass straight, although this time it was less that we passed terribly (although we did), than we didn't pass at all. I continue to be amazed at this team's addiction to playing one-on-one basketball, and almost pathological avoidance of meaningful ball movement. I got back from Anaheim in time to watch most of the second half of the Gonzaga-Duke game, and seeing multiple passes and assists on baskets actually occurring seemed like an out-of-body experience. There are some positives. Sitting literally a few feet from the players, it was impossible not to see that they all are playing hard, really hard, for Ewing. They just are not playing smart for him. As I said in an earlier post, some of that undoubtedly arises from the freshman (and even Dante) still trying to revert to what worked for them in the past. But Patrick has to see that this offensive approach even isn't close to working, even against what ought to be significantly out-manned competition. We don't move the ball, we don't move without it, and we select poor shots because poor shots are the only ones we end up in a position to take. All of this is (or should be) correctable. But that is on the Coach and his staff. I really think they're out of excuses. This year could end up being a train wreck, but I don't think it has to be. It's time to get back on track, though, and the clock is ticking rapidly. Aminu is talented but out of control. He is playing hero ball. Like everything depends on him.....it doesn't or shouldn't!! Someone mentioned much earlier that he played like LJ Peak. I think they are right. I was not an LJ Peak fan. In my opinion he played on a team that had severe limitations and lack of skill and he played out of control, but with plenty of energy!! We need to let some of the younger players play more... play through mistakes and gain confidence. Ighoeffe is developing. He has to get use to being the man. Mutombo is developing, we're seeing flashes of his diverse skills, still he's light, but needs to play. Malcolm is third in line, he has a lot of hustle, time will tell. I see talent and a fighting attitude on the squad. Hopefully Kobe Clark can get healthy. He was knocking on the door of getting playing time and has yet to have any significant court time. Lastly, Don Carey has to step into his leadership role and become the coach on the floor. I hope he can do it! Coach is between a rock and a hard place. Either way he goes, few will be satisfied.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Nov 28, 2021 15:44:48 GMT -5
Yeah I saw last night that Jordan isn't ready for the moment and it would do more damage if we force feed him minutes. Some freshmen are ready for minutes (Aminu), some aren't quite ready but can handle being force fed (JBills, Ryan) and some you need to bring along slower (Jordan and to a lesser extent Tyler). I think Jordan will be a pro but he needs the game to slow down a lot. It's little things but it's a lot of little things. I bet you said the same about Dante last year and look where he is. I think Jordan needs to play a little more. We should not be so dependent on Aminu. Let all our recruits chip in. I love many aspects of his game, he is relentless, but needs to share more or pass when he's in helter-skelter down low inside. Go Hoyas!!
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Post by bigelephant on Nov 28, 2021 17:34:07 GMT -5
SO DO I!
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 28, 2021 18:44:38 GMT -5
Watch for Holloway to get more playing time. Pickett said he was good. That's good enough for me. Plus he has looked pretty good in his few minutes.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 28, 2021 20:01:07 GMT -5
The coach has been saying it is going to take time. He has also said on at least one occasion that the freshmen are finding out what worked in high school won't cut it in the college game. You can see that in the way they are playing but as noted by hoyawoodhoops at courtside, they are all playing hard for Ewing. I'm amazed (and not amazed) at the ease with which some people here are ready to totally give up on the season after only 5 games.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 28, 2021 21:04:40 GMT -5
The coach has been saying it is going to take time. He has also said on at least one occasion that the freshmen are finding out what worked in high school won't cut it in the college game. You can see that in the way they are playing but as noted by hoyawoodhoops at courtside, they are all playing hard for Ewing. I'm amazed (and not amazed) at the ease with which some people here are ready to totally give up on the season after only 5 games. Not giving up, but it's hard to be optimistic with a few bad losses already under our belt, plus the same mistakes that have become the hallmark of this program the past 5 years still happening, over and over again.. I'm all for trying to see the bright side and hoping for signs that the team might take some huge leap this season, but right now I'm squinting as hard as I can, and I just don't see it. And given the retention issues, it seems silly to think this group will have a few years to gel together (and in fact 2 starters will definitely be gone next season). There are already rumblings from disenchanted family members on social media. It just seems like the same bad cycle, every season. And Ewing is falling into the same disquieting pattern that JT3 did in his final seasons - trotting out the same cliched excuses after every loss and setback, and seeming to see no reason to communicate to the students, alums and fans who actually make the program go. It's getting sad to watch, and it seems like we are heading toward the worst case scenario when the Ewing hire was made: A bad breakup with the single most important player in program history. I would love, love, love to be wrong about this, but it's starting to become difficult to see a happy ending here.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 28, 2021 21:09:21 GMT -5
The coach has been saying it is going to take time. He has also said on at least one occasion that the freshmen are finding out what worked in high school won't cut it in the college game. You can see that in the way they are playing but as noted by hoyawoodhoops at courtside, they are all playing hard for Ewing. I'm amazed (and not amazed) at the ease with which some people here are ready to totally give up on the season after only 5 games. Not giving up, but it's hard to be optimistic with a few bad losses already under our belt, plus the same mistakes that have become the hallmark of this program the past 5 years still happening, over and over again.. I'm all for trying to see the bright side and hoping for signs that the team might take some huge leap this season, but right now I'm squinting as hard as I can, and I just don't see it. And given the retention issues, it seems silly to think this group will have a few years to gel together (and in fact 2 starters will definitely be gone next season). There are already rumblings from disenchanted family members on social media. It just seems like the same bad cycle, every season. And Ewing is falling into the same disquieting pattern that JT3 did in his final seasons - trotting out the same cliched excuses after every loss and setback, and seeming to see no reason to communicate to the students, alums and fans who actually make the program go. It's getting sad to watch, and it seems like we are heading toward the worst case scenario when the Ewing hire was made: A bad breakup with the single most important player in program history. I would love, love, love to be wrong about this, but it's starting to become difficult to see a happy ending here. Can't argue with any of that, and I have to say you were not a person I had in mind when I posted. 5 games just seems early to cut and run, but that is only one person's opinion.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 28, 2021 21:11:42 GMT -5
Not giving up, but it's hard to be optimistic with a few bad losses already under our belt, plus the same mistakes that have become the hallmark of this program the past 5 years still happening, over and over again.. I'm all for trying to see the bright side and hoping for signs that the team might take some huge leap this season, but right now I'm squinting as hard as I can, and I just don't see it. And given the retention issues, it seems silly to think this group will have a few years to gel together (and in fact 2 starters will definitely be gone next season). There are already rumblings from disenchanted family members on social media. It just seems like the same bad cycle, every season. And Ewing is falling into the same disquieting pattern that JT3 did in his final seasons - trotting out the same cliched excuses after every loss and setback, and seeming to see no reason to communicate to the students, alums and fans who actually make the program go. It's getting sad to watch, and it seems like we are heading toward the worst case scenario when the Ewing hire was made: A bad breakup with the single most important player in program history. I would love, love, love to be wrong about this, but it's starting to become difficult to see a happy ending here. Can't argue with any of that, and I have to say you were not a person I had in mind when I posted. 5 games just seems early to cut and run, but that is only one person's opinion. Ha. Didn't think you were targeting me, but I think I fall within the demo of the original post. Again, hope I'm wrong.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 28, 2021 22:00:00 GMT -5
And Ewing is falling into the same disquieting pattern that JT3 did in his final seasons - trotting out the same cliched excuses after every loss and setback, and seeming to see no reason to communicate to the students, alums and fans who actually make the program go. They must teach this in Coaching 101--you see a lot of coaches do it in basketball and it's unnecessary. I did see a coach who took the opposite approach about 10 years ago. Matt Doherty was the coach at SMU who probably knew the school was buying out the last year of his contract. He had two home games left in mid-February 2012 when I saw the Mustangs play Marshall. Forty five minutes before the game, Doherty walks out to the court and stops to say hello or shake the hand of every ticket holder on the floor seats, just to say thanks for coming (three days earlier SMU managed just 28 points in a loss to UAB). He knew he wasn't going to be around when SMU started the $40 million renovation of Moody Coliseum that he had fundraised for, but he took the time to show some gratitude even in hard times. The little things matter.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 28, 2021 22:21:44 GMT -5
And Ewing is falling into the same disquieting pattern that JT3 did in his final seasons - trotting out the same cliched excuses after every loss and setback, and seeming to see no reason to communicate to the students, alums and fans who actually make the program go. They must teach this in Coaching 101--you see a lot of coaches do it in basketball and it's unnecessary. I did see a coach who took the opposite approach about 10 years ago. Matt Doherty was the coach at SMU who probably knew the school was buying out the last year of his contract. He had two home games left in mid-February 2012 when I saw the Mustangs play Marshall. Forty five minutes before the game, Doherty walks out to the court and stops to say hello or shake the hand of every ticket holder on the floor seats, just to say thanks for coming (three days earlier SMU managed just 28 points in a loss to UAB). He knew he wasn't going to be around when SMU started the $40 million renovation of Moody Coliseum that he had fundraised for, but he took the time to show some gratitude even in hard times. The little things matter. Matt Doherety flamed out at UNC. And basically flamed out everywhere he has been but kept getting opportunities. I really think things could have been different for him had he not taken the UNC job and had stayed at Notre Dame as he was building something special there. UNC was just too soon in his career and stunted his coaching growth.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Nov 29, 2021 20:45:39 GMT -5
I did not have the benefit (??) of seeing the St. Joe's game, but I do have to wonder what the odds would have been on a parlay of no baskets for Don Carey in game 1 to no baskets for Aminu in game 2.
And this is likely addressed above, but I don't have the stomach to read through the thread to find out. It turned out that only two St. Joe's players made any threes, and one, Funk, killed us in particular. So what was the story there? Was our defense bad and we got lucky with the other guys? Did Funk just kill us? Should we have focused on him more when it became obvious that he was hitting everything?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 29, 2021 20:52:48 GMT -5
I did not have the benefit (??) of seeing the St. Joe's game, but I do have to wonder what the odds would have been on a parlay of no baskets for Don Carey in game 1 to no baskets for Aminu in game 2. And this is likely addressed above, but I don't have the stomach to read through the thread to find out. It turned out that only two St. Joe's players made any threes, and one, Funk, killed us in particular. So what was the story there? Was our defense bad and we got lucky with the other guys? Did Funk just kill us? Should we have focused on him more when it became obvious that he was hitting everything? We made Funk look like a NBA player. Our defense was bad, we didn’t deny him the pass, we overhelped with penetrators, they used our players to screen our defenders, Pat was outcoached/there’s a roadmap on how to beat our defense, etc…
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 30, 2021 6:56:31 GMT -5
I did not have the benefit (??) of seeing the St. Joe's game, but I do have to wonder what the odds would have been on a parlay of no baskets for Don Carey in game 1 to no baskets for Aminu in game 2. And this is likely addressed above, but I don't have the stomach to read through the thread to find out. It turned out that only two St. Joe's players made any threes, and one, Funk, killed us in particular. So what was the story there? Was our defense bad and we got lucky with the other guys? Did Funk just kill us? Should we have focused on him more when it became obvious that he was hitting everything? We made Funk look like a NBA player. Our defense was bad, we didn’t deny him the pass, we overhelped with penetrators, they used our players to screen our defenders, Pat was outcoached/there’s a roadmap on how to beat our defense, etc… Funk reminded me of Max Strus who is an NBA player with the Heat
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s4hoyas
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Post by s4hoyas on Nov 30, 2021 9:05:03 GMT -5
I think its fair to say that all three teams that beat us played, by far, their best game of the year against us...that's not intended to rationalize the quality (or lack thereof) of our performance in those games...we have several areas (both individually and from a team perspective) that need to improve, most of which have been pointed out here...Funk shot 8 of 10 from three (who does that?) and we lost by three points (largely because we left our feet and attempted passes without knowing where we were going with them, resulting in critical late game turnovers)...as for Funk (who I'll wager won't go 8/10 from 3 the rest of the year) after he made about his third 3, we should have rotated players on him to deny him any more open 3 point attempts...our staff/team needs to recognize who the hot hand is and take him out/limit his effectiveness through that recognition...Longwood appears to be another pretty talented team that is likely "licking their chops" thinking that they can beat Georgetown, so we better come to play, as a team banded together for one purpose, to win, each player enabling his brother to play at the top of his game...
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Nov 30, 2021 10:08:17 GMT -5
They must teach this in Coaching 101--you see a lot of coaches do it in basketball and it's unnecessary. I did see a coach who took the opposite approach about 10 years ago. Matt Doherty was the coach at SMU who probably knew the school was buying out the last year of his contract. He had two home games left in mid-February 2012 when I saw the Mustangs play Marshall. Forty five minutes before the game, Doherty walks out to the court and stops to say hello or shake the hand of every ticket holder on the floor seats, just to say thanks for coming (three days earlier SMU managed just 28 points in a loss to UAB). He knew he wasn't going to be around when SMU started the $40 million renovation of Moody Coliseum that he had fundraised for, but he took the time to show some gratitude even in hard times. The little things matter. Matt Doherety flamed out at UNC. And basically flamed out everywhere he has been but kept getting opportunities. I really think things could have been different for him had he not taken the UNC job and had stayed at Notre Dame as he was building something special there. UNC was just too soon in his career and stunted his coaching growth. Matt Doherty did make a mistake leaving for UNC and career sound like Fired Oakland Raiders Head Coach Resigned Tennessee Volunteers Head Coach Fired Univ. of Southern California Head Coach Resigned Florida Atlantic Head Coach Current Ole Miss Head Coach Lane Kiffin who is interviewing for the Oklahoma Sooners Head Coach position.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 30, 2021 10:55:56 GMT -5
Matt Doherety flamed out at UNC. And basically flamed out everywhere he has been but kept getting opportunities. I really think things could have been different for him had he not taken the UNC job and had stayed at Notre Dame as he was building something special there. UNC was just too soon in his career and stunted his coaching growth. Matt Doherty did make a mistake leaving for UNC and career sound like Fired Oakland Raiders Head Coach Resigned Tennessee Volunteers Head Coach Fired Univ. of Southern California Head Coach Resigned Florida Atlantic Head Coach Current Ole Miss Head Coach Lane Kiffin who is interviewing for the Oklahoma Sooners Head Coach position. This is exactly what John Thompson and Marin Alsop talk about with minorities and women not getting the opportunity to fail. White coaches and artists get multiple opportunities to fail and learn and develop from their failures. Its part of the learning process. But minorities and women get one shot and if they fail that’s it. High level career over.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Nov 30, 2021 11:40:57 GMT -5
Matt Doherty did make a mistake leaving for UNC and career sound like Fired Oakland Raiders Head Coach Resigned Tennessee Volunteers Head Coach Fired Univ. of Southern California Head Coach Resigned Florida Atlantic Head Coach Current Ole Miss Head Coach Lane Kiffin who is interviewing for the Oklahoma Sooners Head Coach position. This is exactly what John Thompson and Marin Alsop talk about with minorities and women not getting the opportunity to fail. White coaches and artists get multiple opportunities to fail and learn and develop from their failures. Its part of the learning process. But minorities and women get one shot and if they fail that’s it. High level career over. How about Mel Tucker, how does he fit your narrative? What about Leonard Hamilton? Dave Leitao? Jeff Capel?
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Nov 30, 2021 12:10:00 GMT -5
Agreeing with you. But, there isn't a lot of cary over from last year to this so Ewing is building up again. It will come, but like last year there are going to be ugly games until all the new parts gel and the freshmen adjust their game for this level, where opponents are like the best players they have played against, but more mature. It will come. I cannot argue with your point about the lack of continuity from last year until this year. What worries me is that so far during Ewing’s tenure turnover has become the norm, not the exception. Not necessarily his fault and certainly not unique to Georgetown, but this apparent new reality does place a premium on coaches who can integrate new players and develop a cohesive team quickly. Is that person Ewing? I hope so because I do not want this man to fail. Nor do I believe the overwhelming majority of fans want him to fail. Their aren't a lot of coaches who are in the tournament year after year. They have a couple up years then a couple down. The solid programs also seem to red shirt and the players, universities, and programs are fine doing that. Schools doing this took 5 to 10 years of building to get to this level. UVA, Villanova, Gonzaga, etc. all have gone this route, but it took them years to get there. One thing this year that is different with other schools, I've noticed wathing other teams play in November is many teams with huge 15+ rosters and 5th year seniors that take advantage of COVID exceptions. The two players from last year that Ewing likely would have considered having back, Pickett and Bile, were both ready to turn pro and he encouraged them to do so and have been successful with that. Ewing had a lot of issues with Blair's inconsistancy and interest in putting in the work or listening to coaches. The only player Ewing did bring back was Carey, who wasn't pro ready and could be helpful with the younger players to help them grow. This leads to a really young team this year that is going to take time to gel. The one year I was discappointed with was the year Hoyas lost 3 good wings with LeBlanc and the two others. That one hurt the Hoyas longer term than Akinjo or McClung. But, it was also down to the school which got in the middle of things and din't help the situation. Georgetown University keeps a rather tight reign on sports teams and players and will quickly show players the door / front gate. Were this Kansas or other university where the basketball teams runs what happens, they may still be at Georgetown. That also drives who comes, who stays, and who had interest in sticking around. The last couple years (including this year) the players coming in know this is what to expect from the university and what to expect on the floor as a player. I'm not so sure fans understand where this plays into how thie fits as a basketball team in this university. The other piece is Hoyas picking up Ewing, who had been in the NBA coaching and didn't have the deep three to 6 year relationship with players a college level coach has and takes with them when they go to a new school, really slowed / or was something that was going to take serious time to build up. The first two to three years weren't player Patrick and his staff's long built relationships. Last year and this year I would think came from building some relationships over time. This years freshmen are really good, but they are all going through adjusting their game to D1 level. They will get there.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Nov 30, 2021 12:17:08 GMT -5
I did not have the benefit (??) of seeing the St. Joe's game, but I do have to wonder what the odds would have been on a parlay of no baskets for Don Carey in game 1 to no baskets for Aminu in game 2. And this is likely addressed above, but I don't have the stomach to read through the thread to find out. It turned out that only two St. Joe's players made any threes, and one, Funk, killed us in particular. So what was the story there? Was our defense bad and we got lucky with the other guys? Did Funk just kill us? Should we have focused on him more when it became obvious that he was hitting everything? We made Funk look like a NBA player. Our defense was bad, we didn’t deny him the pass, we overhelped with penetrators, they used our players to screen our defenders, Pat was outcoached/there’s a roadmap on how to beat our defense, etc… I did a 2nd watch of the game and St. Joe's was running the Hoyas (mostly Rice, who was doing far better job than I gave him credit for on defense) through 2 to 4 picks to get him open. But, Funk mostly was hitting rather well guarded shots. The St. Joe's run happened more on Hoya's misses early in the shot clock taking poor shots. But, also a young team not talking and lacking a defender sitting back and directing the defense as Pickett did last year, as well as Bile late in the year. Funk, much like Cornish for Dartmouth, were hitting contested shots, which is what they do. But, the teams and the players work hard to get slightly open and can make shots slightly open.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 30, 2021 13:01:33 GMT -5
We made Funk look like a NBA player. Our defense was bad, we didn’t deny him the pass, we overhelped with penetrators, they used our players to screen our defenders, Pat was outcoached/there’s a roadmap on how to beat our defense, etc… I did a 2nd watch of the game and St. Joe's was running the Hoyas (mostly Rice, who was doing far better job than I gave him credit for on defense) through 2 to 4 picks to get him open. But, Funk mostly was hitting rather well guarded shots. The St. Joe's run happened more on Hoya's misses early in the shot clock taking poor shots. But, also a young team not talking and lacking a defender sitting back and directing the defense as Pickett did last year, as well as Bile late in the year. Funk, much like Cornish for Dartmouth, were hitting contested shots, which is what they do. But, the teams and the players work hard to get slightly open and can make shots slightly open. I disagree. There were plenty of uncontested shots, but I don’t have the game available. But the game thread helps…
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