Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,642
|
Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 1, 2021 14:16:59 GMT -5
The NBA subsidizes the WNBA.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,296
|
Post by prhoya on Apr 1, 2021 14:17:57 GMT -5
In all seriousness, why would he have to sit? His coach left and it’s free-transfer year. As I understand it, the only issue is if Texas has an open scholarship (because he would count towards the 13-scholarship limit there). I believe it's only free transfer for your first transfer. Since this is his 2nd transfer, he would have to sit unless he gets a waiver. I guess it would be also possible he graduates over the summer in 3 years, then he could be a grad transfer and play immediately. Not sure what his academic situation is like. Isn’t there a free transfer if your coach transfers? And Mac hasn’t taken his COVID year free-transfer. Pat gave him the requested release. I bet he would love to add to his brand by playing for the Longhorns.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Apr 1, 2021 14:30:14 GMT -5
I believe it's only free transfer for your first transfer. Since this is his 2nd transfer, he would have to sit unless he gets a waiver. I guess it would be also possible he graduates over the summer in 3 years, then he could be a grad transfer and play immediately. Not sure what his academic situation is like. Isn’t there a free transfer if your coach transfers? And Mac hasn’t taken his COVID year free-transfer. Pat gave him the requested release. I bet he would love to add to his brand by playing for the Longhorns. I don't think there is a coach's free transfer. It might be taken into consideration for a waiver. The COVID free year, just means you get an extra year of eligibility not that you get to transfer for free (without sitting). Although LCPollo is the true expert on all this so he can probably explain it better and more accurately.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Apr 1, 2021 14:36:18 GMT -5
I believe it's only free transfer for your first transfer. Since this is his 2nd transfer, he would have to sit unless he gets a waiver. I guess it would be also possible he graduates over the summer in 3 years, then he could be a grad transfer and play immediately. Not sure what his academic situation is like. I bet he would love to add to his brand by playing for the Longhorns. It would be the best thing possible for his brand assuming he can play next year. Otherwise he would have to sit out and play a fifth year of college ball and lose out on one year of pro salary. (plus an extra unpaid year of wear and tear on his high octane game)
|
|
LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
|
Post by LCPolo18 on Apr 1, 2021 15:46:54 GMT -5
I believe it's only free transfer for your first transfer. Since this is his 2nd transfer, he would have to sit unless he gets a waiver. I guess it would be also possible he graduates over the summer in 3 years, then he could be a grad transfer and play immediately. Not sure what his academic situation is like. Isn’t there a free transfer if your coach transfers? And Mac hasn’t taken his COVID year free-transfer. Pat gave him the requested release. I bet he would love to add to his brand by playing for the Longhorns. The rule has only been proposed, not passed yet. The potential rule would allow one transfer waiver per student athlete. Right now, something different is occurring. Because of the pandemic, the NCAA granted waivers to everyone for the 2020-2021 season, and many people expect waivers to also be granted to everyone for the 2021-2022 season. Hence all of the transfer portal traffic (along with all of the current seniors with an extra year which they could use at another school). It's unclear when the rule will be passed, and it's unclear how the rule will be retroactively applied for student athletes that have already received transfer waivers in previous seasons. For Mac McClung, he could certainly enter the transfer portal if he wanted to, with the hope that the NCAA would grant blanket waivers again or that he could make an argument for another waiver (coach left, pandemic concerns, family requirements, etc.). You also mentioned that "Pat gave him the requested release" in relation to last year's transfer. That's not quite the correct wording. McClung entered the transfer portal last year, Ewing publicly supported the decision, and it was reported that Georgetown was supportive in McClung and Texas Tech obtaining a transfer waiver. Ewing did not release McClung, and no argument could be made that Ewing "ran off" McClung. I would assume if the rumors are true about the injury/trainer, McClung probably could have put together a compelling argument for a transfer waiver. One other component is transferring within the same conference. I'm not an expert in the Big 12, but based on the 2 minutes I spent reading the Big 12 rules it sounds like a player would forfeit a year of eligibility if they transfer within the conference. I'm not sure that it would be enforced or how it would work with the 5 years of eligibility currently available, but it's something to consider.
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,899
Member is Online
|
Post by EtomicB on Apr 1, 2021 15:51:32 GMT -5
I understand what you're saying but your initial post stated that the cost of labor is based on demand and then used that point to say 99% of the kids aren't worth much. You didn’t answer my question of whether or not the demand for HM athletics is high or not? If the answer is yes, then shouldn’t the cost of labor be higher than they're currently offering? I agree that there is high demand for high major mens college basektball and football--at least relative to non-revenue college sports and minor league sports. But your point--that if there is high demand for a product the per unit cost of labor should necessarily reflect that high demand, simply does not follow. Using my Coke hypothetical again--just because there is high demand for Coca-Cola, that does not by extension mean that there is high demand for Coke bottlers ( relative to available supply of bottlers). So now look at college basketball players--does demand outstrip supply such that the average-talent D1 player would be able to demand something higher than cost of attendance? Salaries in other domestic leagues lower than the NBA would seem to indicate no. Are there a number of players in the NCAA ranks each year who are unique enough talents that they would be able to negotiate higher compensation if it was permitted? Yes. On the other hand, is there any argument that it is the moral/ethical thing to do to see NCAA revenue sport athletes receive a greater share of the sport's success? Sure. I don't think the Coca-Cola hypothesis is a good one because their labor costs are kept in line by their many competitors and the job market, not the high demand for their products... I'm not fond of the G-league salary theory either because their salaries are low due to the lack of demand(advertisers tv revenue) for G-league basketball even though there are very talented players in the league... The NCAA CBB and even more so CFB are ridiculously popular with advertisers & TV.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2021 19:40:49 GMT -5
Jim is at the IDGAF stage of human development.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2021 20:22:10 GMT -5
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,320
|
Post by tashoya on Apr 1, 2021 20:46:28 GMT -5
In all seriousness, why would he have to sit? His coach left and it’s free-transfer year. As I understand it, the only issue is if Texas has an open scholarship (because he would count towards the 13-scholarship limit there). Gotcha. I think the rule is you don't have to sit if it's your first transfer, but of course it hasn't passed yet so in reality it could be anything. On a side note how craaaazy would that be? I just realized that technically speaking a coach at a really good HM or MM could take a job at a new school and essentially have his best players with remaining eligibility transfer with him and play immediately. Wild yo. It'll make the UNC situation interesting after the announcement today.
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,320
|
Post by tashoya on Apr 1, 2021 20:49:56 GMT -5
She clearly had remarkable self-awareness and perspective for a freshman. I think that's exceedingly rare for any college freshman, not just the ones that are great athletes.
|
|
jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,006
|
Post by jwp91 on Apr 2, 2021 5:36:54 GMT -5
All these transfer make the NCAA start to feel like AAU. How many fans does AAU have?
|
|
hoya95
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,445
|
Post by hoya95 on Apr 2, 2021 11:41:47 GMT -5
Now that we have a definitive answer as to "what would happen if a big school got caught blatantly cheating?", how do we go back to even pretending that there are rules that can be enforced?
|
|
BSM
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 489
|
Post by BSM on Apr 2, 2021 12:08:05 GMT -5
All these transfer make the NCAA start to feel like AAU. How many fans does AAU have? Forget AAU. It's JUCO. Kids are only staying one or two years and leaving. I'm surprised that the more successful JUCO Coaches are not getting a shot at DI jobs, and it's not just the Men's side. The Syracuse women have 10 players in the Transfer Portal
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 15:54:10 GMT -5
All these transfer make the NCAA start to feel like AAU. How many fans does AAU have? Forget AAU. It's JUCO. Kids are only staying one or two years and leaving. I'm surprised that the more successful JUCO Coaches are not getting a shot at DI jobs, and it's not just the Men's side. The Syracuse women have 10 players in the Transfer Portal 10 women from Syracuse? Geeeesh!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 18:33:28 GMT -5
Gotcha. I think you make great point and generally speaking you can say that's not how labor markets work, but sports are entertainment, and that's how the entertainment industry works in a lot of cases. If you sign to a record label that's exactly what's going to happen. Think of Alabama football as Drake for instance. You're going to take the profits you make off Drake to fund artists that may or may not be generating income, but that isn't used as an excuse to not pay Drake his worth. I think tuition is a form of compensation, but the value is in receiving the diploma, and sports scholarships are renewed on a yearly basis. So there's kind of this weird dynamic where we're saying we're educating kids, but if they don't perform up to level they get pushed to another school regardless of what their academic standing is. If the commitment was for four years I think that would hold more weight for me, but it isn't. TBH though I don't think in basketball things would change much. There's not a ton of teams making boatloads of cash of their b-ball programs. Kentucky basketball makes the most and it's still less than their football program for instance. The top schools are going to get the best players, but they are already doing that. Those kids aren't going to be around long, and you win by getting old in college b-ball. I don't think the model for a school like Georgetown would change much. They also have the ability to sell a world class education and an alumni network that can help them when the ball stops bouncing. There are always going to be kids and parents that see the bigger picture. Those folks will understand if you want to play professionally it's better to get showcased at school than to be the 9th kid on Kentucky, even though they might pay you a little more in the short term. I fully agree that NCAA and the institutions take full advantage of this model, knowing full well that many of the stars it promotes in football and basketball either don't value the education/degree at all, or are substantially undervalued even if we are talking in terms of the sticker cost of attendance. And the entertainment/sports industry does not really work differently--its simply that the stars in those industries are valuable for their uniqueness in a way that the accountant likely is not. Take a Hollywood movie for example--Tom Cruise knows his value to the filmmaker is so high that he has leverage to negotiate a contract that pays him a high guaranteed pay-out, plus a percentage of the revenues. But Joe Schmo the Extra, who is chilling in the background in a couple scenes, is likely utterly replaceable, and so has minimal bargaining power (unless he's on a SAAG union contract), and regardless of whether the film makes $50m or is a boondogle, will be paid the same wage. Yes, but we're talking about the revenue earners not the extras. So in the Hollywood movie example you laid out P5 football would be Tom Cruise imo.
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 18,298
|
Post by SSHoya on Apr 2, 2021 19:40:32 GMT -5
The second-seeded Cougars, with four transfers in their starting lineup and two more on the roster, are an extreme example of a program that leans on players from elsewhere. But they’re also a reflection of their peers, both in the men’s Final Four and across the college basketball landscape, as players take advantage of more freedom to transfer and programs embrace how those athletes can be valuable additions. www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/04/02/transfers-houston-baylor-gonazaga-ucla-final-four/
|
|
SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,330
Member is Online
|
Post by SDHoya on Apr 2, 2021 23:27:42 GMT -5
I fully agree that NCAA and the institutions take full advantage of this model, knowing full well that many of the stars it promotes in football and basketball either don't value the education/degree at all, or are substantially undervalued even if we are talking in terms of the sticker cost of attendance. And the entertainment/sports industry does not really work differently--its simply that the stars in those industries are valuable for their uniqueness in a way that the accountant likely is not. Take a Hollywood movie for example--Tom Cruise knows his value to the filmmaker is so high that he has leverage to negotiate a contract that pays him a high guaranteed pay-out, plus a percentage of the revenues. But Joe Schmo the Extra, who is chilling in the background in a couple scenes, is likely utterly replaceable, and so has minimal bargaining power (unless he's on a SAAG union contract), and regardless of whether the film makes $50m or is a boondogle, will be paid the same wage. Yes, but we're talking about the revenue earners not the extras. So in the Hollywood movie example you laid out P5 football would be Tom Cruise imo. Not quite. P5 football may be Mission Impossible. Trevor Lawrence would be Tom Cruise. Many of the rest would be closer to extra status.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 23:40:56 GMT -5
Yes, but we're talking about the revenue earners not the extras. So in the Hollywood movie example you laid out P5 football would be Tom Cruise imo. Not quite. P5 football may be Mission Impossible. Trevor Lawrence would be Tom Cruise. Many of the rest would be closer to extra status. Gotcha, I think you get what I'm saying though. The reason why I'm phrasing like this is because you objected to me asking why a kid who plays in a revenue sport should be responsible for a universities' decision to fund non revenue. You made it clear then that it wasn't the kid in your opinion, it was the Football program who is paying. So that's why I'm phrasing it like this. The product they are paying to see is Clemson football, just like when you go to a concert you pay to see Drake. In the entertainment industry if you're the product your pay does increase as revenue does in a lot of cases. But for the record Kentucky football doesn't have many stars that I know of, but it still nets 30million + a year.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,547
|
Post by DanMcQ on Apr 3, 2021 6:02:16 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2021 8:59:05 GMT -5
|
|